The Seabrook Conundrum...

[Pez68]

Here's the problem as I see it. Seabrook is a "leader" on this team. This is always the argument people bring up when scratching him is discussed. He wears a letter. He is supposed to be an example for the young guys. One time in the playoffs he said something to Toews when he was losing his cool. He also scored some big goals many years ago. So, sure, he WAS one of this team's leaders.

But, every player, at some point in their career, reaches a point where they can no longer effectively "lead", because of their on-ice performance. How can he be vocal and hold the younger players accountable when he is one of the absolute worst players on the team? It would be one thing if he appeared to be going 110%, selling out to block shots, standing up for teammates, etc. But most of the time, he's not even moving his feet out there. If he's talking, he's likely being tuned out by most of the guys at this point.

I think if JC really wants to take control of this team, and instill accountability and work ethic into the room, he absolutely has to sit Seabrook. How can a guy be a leader on a team when his best, 100% effort(if it even is), is what most guys are doing when half-assing it? What motivation do the young players have to play harder, when they see him out there stinking up the place every night, and continuing to be thrown out on the PP and PK? How can you hold the young guys accountable and change their approach to the game if you aren't holding everyone accountable?

Joe Thornton is a hall of famer, and even he had his C stripped away for a better option. At some point, it needs to happen. I would sit Seabs, and the next game, his A would be on Shaw's jersey. Yeah, yeah, Kane. Maybe Kane is an option if it sparks him and he starts playing some semblance of a 200 foot game, but I don't think that's going to happen. You sit him for 4-5 games in a row, and when he comes back you just keep the A on Shaw's jersey. Shaw is a heart and soul guy, is a two-time cup winner, is 28, stands up for his teammates, and I guarantee nobody is questioning his work ethic or his desire to win if he steps up and talks.

If Seabrook doesn't start seeing regular press box duty this season, I'm on the fire everyone train. He's a detriment to the team, and at some point, guys will start resenting him because of his play, and it will end up fracturing the locker room. You need to start handing the reigns over to the younger guys at some point in the retool/rebuild, so it can be THEIR team. I would start that process with moving an A off of a guy that should be in the press box 75% of the season.

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[featherhawk]

pretty well said @Pez68 regarding 7 and JC

not really concerened about who gets the A but Shaw does not need it and I am not sure that you want him talking to the officials more than he already does. Kane is the likely the best option, it would likely make 88 a bit more accountable to a 200 foot game IMO, Saad would also be an option IMO but I would go with Kaner

I just don't think JC has the balls OR he is being instructed not to scratch 7

 

[Pez68]

Oh, and on the topic of leadership, the leadership of this team was decimated by the loss of Sharp, Hossa, and Hammer. All three were guys that lead by example. Which, IMO, is the most important leadership in hockey.

Who on this team is actually leading by example nowadays? I got news for you, the captain ain't doing it either.... This team seems to be severely lacking those "big dogs" that everyone watched, and strived to match, effort wise. The guys that played the way you need to play to win. Especially come crunch time.

I said it at the time, but this team needed Mark Stone DESPERATELY. The impact and influence of a balls to the wall 200 foot forward setting an example for everyone, can't be overstated. If I am a GM, that's a whatever it takes acquisition. Too late now, but that's exactly what this team is missing.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I would think about stripping the "A" off Seabs. I don't think you can be a leader when you're so out of shape that you can't get through an entire game. It's just pathetic and sends the wrong message to the younger guys. Keith is approaching Seabs level of play too.

I wonder when they'll transition the "A"s to the next group. Obviously Toews keeps the "C" until he decides to retire, but Seabs and Keith? I'd take them away.

 

[Hawsse]

there's no way they take the a off seeb. it's simply not happening without him leaving the team outright.

 

[TLEH]

I agree for the most part as I’m probably the biggest Seabrook hater on this board, but Toews had a bad game but he’s still a great example to young players.

 

[BK]

I would think about stripping the "A" off Seabs. I don't think you can be a leader when you're so out of shape that you can't get through an entire game. It's just pathetic and sends the wrong message to the younger guys. Keith is approaching Seabs level of play too.

I wonder when they'll transition the "A"s to the next group. Obviously Toews keeps the "C" until he decides to retire, but Seabs and Keith? I'd take them away.

Wait people think he is really out of shape? He is not a machine like Toews or Keith but he is not some blob out there. Want to see out of shape? Look at Buff.

Seabrook getting slow and loosing his game is his body breaking down. There are bunches of pictures out there that confirm he is not fat or out of shape.

 

[featherhawk]

Wait people think he is really out of shape? He is not a machine like Toews or Keith but he is not some blob out there. Want to see out of shape? Look at Buff.

Seabrook getting slow and loosing his game is his body breaking down. There are bunches of pictures out there that confirm he is not fat or out of shape.

then 7 needs to man up and say to the hawks; guys thanks for the run and making my family very wealthy however my body is breaking down, I have to listen to it and call it a career

 

[Kevin Musto]

Wait people think he is really out of shape? He is not a machine like Toews or Keith but he is not some blob out there. Want to see out of shape? Look at Buff.

Seabrook getting slow and loosing his game is his body breaking down. There are bunches of pictures out there that confirm he is not fat or out of shape.

Seabs definitely has a stamina problem. He looks utterly gassed after every shift, and it's not like he's doing a whole lot out there.

 

[Hawsse]

then 7 needs to man up and say to the hawks; guys thanks for the run and making my family very wealthy however my body is breaking down, I have to listen to it and call it a career

generally speaking, people aren't willing to turn down 12.5 million dollars of salary and another 12 million dollars of signing bonuses for the good of the team and their health.

 

[featherhawk]

Seabs definitely has a stamina problem. He looks utterly gassed after every shift, and it's not like he's doing a whole lot out there.

exactly, the guy does little to no skating at all when in our own end, he really only stands and glides.

once the puck goes up the ice he once again glides most of the way after taking a 7 or 8 laboured strides and then he stands around the opponents blue line.

its comical actually

 

[hawksrule]

Wait people think he is really out of shape? He is not a machine like Toews or Keith but he is not some blob out there. Want to see out of shape? Look at Buff.

Seabrook getting slow and loosing his game is his body breaking down. There are bunches of pictures out there that confirm he is not fat or out of shape.

He dropped some weight, but for a couple years his face was pretty doughey. And Buff is much faster than Seabs regardless.

 

[featherhawk]

generally speaking, people aren't willing to turn down 12.5 million dollars of salary and another 12 million dollars of signing bonuses for the good of the team and their health.

well he is clearly not a leader then

 

[Hawsse]

well then he is clearly not a leader then

look, i get the sentiment but do you not understand how ludicrous this statement is? like, maybe he isn't a leader if that's the standard, but if that's the case i'm not sure there are many leaders in the world. probably less than ten.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

If Thornton had a cup ring much less three it never would have happened. Whether or not it’s the right thing to do is immaterial.

JC doesn’t have that kind of sway. Who knows about in the locker room, but certainly not in the organization. McDonough simply wouldn’t let such a public humiliation take place. And I don’t know how Keith/Kane/Toews/Crawford would take it either, warranted or not.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

well he is clearly not a leader then

You could call me whatever the f*** you want if it meant twenty million at the end of that tunnel.

 

[Hawsse]

You could call me whatever the **** you want if it meant twenty million at the end of that tunnel.

the only counter i can think of is that the dude has already earned more than triple that number. but then you gotta think, twenty million is twenty million.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

the only counter i can think of is that the dude has already earned ~triple that number already. but then you gotta think, twenty million is twenty million.

Yup. You know what’s better than sixty million? Eighty million.

 

[featherhawk]

look, i get the sentiment but do you not understand how ludicrous this statement is? like, maybe he isn't a leader if that's the standard, but if that's the case i'm not sure there are many leaders in the world. probably less than ten.

Seabrook does not need the money, the guy has earned about $80 million bucks in his career to this point. If he was a leader and realized that his body was breaking down and he was detriment to the team he would pack it in. So either he is not a leader, does not realize that his body is breaking down or does not see that he is a detriment to the team or he is a money hungry selfish hockey player.

 

[featherhawk]

Yup. You know what’s better than sixty million? Eighty million.

but you know what else is true, $80 million is sufficient, making an ass out of yourself for the last 6 or so years to finish a contract and tainting what would have been a great career is not really worth the difference between $80 million which he has earned already to the $97 million that he would get for his career if he finishes it, if he does in fact have the physical ability to finish it which I highly doubt he does

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Seabrook does not need the money, the guy has earned about $80 million bucks in his career to this point. If he was a leader and realized that his body was breaking down and he was detriment to the team he would pack it in. So either he is not a leader, does not realize that his body is breaking down or does not see that he is a detriment to the team or he is a money hungry selfish hockey player.

Twenty million dollars is generational wealth. You’re thinking too much like a fan instead of being realistic. I’d happily be bad at my job for the next five years if it meant collecting paychecks that totaled over seven zeroes and two commas before the decimal point.

 

[Hawsse]

Seabrook does not need the money, the guy has earned about $80 million bucks in his career to this point. If he was a leader and realized that his body was breaking down and he was detriment to the team he would pack it in. So either he is not a leader, does not realize that his body is breaking down or does not see that he is a detriment to the team or he is a money hungry selfish hockey player.

i don't disagree with a word of this. my point was just that you might as well piss in the wind for all the good it does you to point it out. seabrook is not going to just walk away from almost twenty times the average american's lifetime earnings. call him whatever names you like, and i will likely agree with you, but it's simply not happening.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

but you know what else is true, $80 million is sufficient, making an ass out of yourself for the last 6 or so years to finish a contract and tainting what would have been a great career is not really worth the difference between $80 million which he has earned already to the $97 million that he would get for his career if he finishes it, if he does in fact have the physical ability to finish it which I highly doubt he does

His career can’t be tainted. Fifteen years from now nobody will care that he was a broken shell of a player at the end of the line.

They will remember the three Stanley Cups and the three gold medals he won for Canada though.

 

[Pez68]

Wait people think he is really out of shape? He is not a machine like Toews or Keith but he is not some blob out there. Want to see out of shape? Look at Buff.

Seabrook getting slow and loosing his game is his body breaking down. There are bunches of pictures out there that confirm he is not fat or out of shape.

I mean, it's easy to see why people would think this. He looks like he's dying just about every shift. Also, being "in shape" visually, and being "in great hockey shape" are ENTIRELY different animals, as you are well aware of. I play with some guys that live at the gym every day, who still have six packs and amazingly toned and ripped bodies. I can outlast them on the ice every day and twice on Sunday with my "dad-bod", because I'm on the ice 5-6 days a week. I'm in hockey shape. They're in gym shape.

I think some of his problem is his body breaking down, sure. But I think more of it, is just the league in general. The league just keeps getting faster and faster. Not just the skating, but decision making, and execution. Seabrook was always a very average skater, with pretty below-average footwork. Skating has never been his strong suit, to say the least. The faster the league gets, the more his skating is a problem. He labors more out there, because he has terrible skating mechanics and footwork. Everything he does out there takes more energy because of this, and he is always chasing.

On top of his skating never being very good, he has never been one of those "cerebral" hockey players that sees things happen before they do. He was more of an execution-type player, if that makes sense. He was a guy who didn't miss the obvious passes or obvious plays very often. He saw the correct plays and executed. His strengths were reaction time and hand/eye, not thinking the game. He also got to play with a hall-of-famer as his partner for the better part of his career, which always helps.

I had a chance to talk to a recently retired Blackhawk defender, who was always one of the best skaters in the league. We talked a bit about skating, retirement, the league now, etc. Ultimately, it wasn't him slowing down or breaking down that made him retire. It was the fact that, even if he kept working, and maintained his skating, and was just as fast as he was the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that, it quite simply wasn't good enough. The league just keeps getting faster, and you hit a certain point in your career where the best you can do is maintain. The amount of work required to stay at a competitive NHL level just isn't feasible at a certain point in your life.

Seabrook is WELL past that point. The best we can hope for is LTIR. He has to be scratched the majority of the time, at the very least. Against an extremely slow San Jose team, he was ATROCIOUS. Imagine what happens to him when they play a fast team...

 

[featherhawk]

I mean, it's easy to see why people would think this. He looks like he's dying just about every shift. Also, being "in shape" visually, and being "in great hockey shape" are ENTIRELY different animals, as you are well aware of. I play with some guys that live at the gym every day, who still have six packs and amazingly toned and ripped bodies. I can outlast them on the ice every day and twice on Sunday with my "dad-bod", because I'm on the ice 5-6 days a week. I'm in hockey shape. They're in gym shape.

I think some of his problem is his body breaking down, sure. But I think more of it, is just the league in general. The league just keeps getting faster and faster. Not just the skating, but decision making, and execution. Seabrook was always a very average skater, with pretty below-average footwork. Skating has never been his strong suit, to say the least. The faster the league gets, the more his skating is a problem. He labors more out there, because he has terrible skating mechanics and footwork. Everything he does out there takes more energy because of this, and he is always chasing.

On top of his skating never being very good, he has never been one of those "cerebral" hockey players that sees things happen before they do. He was more of an execution-type player, if that makes sense. He was a guy who didn't miss the obvious passes or obvious plays very often. He saw the correct plays and executed. His strengths were reaction time and hand/eye, not thinking the game. He also got to play with a hall-of-famer as his partner for the better part of his career, which always helps.

I had a chance to talk to a recently retired Blackhawk defender, who was always one of the best skaters in the league. We talked a bit about skating, retirement, the league now, etc. Ultimately, it wasn't him slowing down or breaking down that made him retire. It was the fact that, even if he kept working, and maintained his skating, and was just as fast as he was the year before, and the year before that, and the year before that, it quite simply wasn't good enough. The league just keeps getting faster, and you hit a certain point in your career where the best you can do is maintain. The amount of work required to stay at a competitive NHL level just isn't feasible at a certain point in your life.

Seabrook is WELL past that point. The best we can hope for is LTIR. He has to be scratched the majority of the time, at the very least. Against an extremely slow San Jose team, he was ATROCIOUS. Imagine what happens to him when they play a fast team...

yup that point happened two seasons ago.

Greed makes people do all sorts of things