Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Trust me... nothing has changed.

[HandshakeLine]

I'm just saying without a center pivot as good as Cullen on that 4th line, trying to run a Craig Patrick-esque offensive fourth line would be a disaster. We had success with it, but many teams have been successful running the opposite.

 

[NMK11]

I think the Reaves/Wilson part of that line is fine, the line just needs more of a playmaker at C than Rowney. Hoping Bleuger can be that person, or maybe McKegg although I honestly dont know anything about him and havent gotten to see him in the preseason.

Even so, Wilson-Rowney-Reaves will not be as bad as Glass-Vitale-Adams. That needs to stop. Wilson himself has more talent than that whole line put together.

 

[Pens x]

Sheahan would be a great 4C.

Hopefully we find a respectable third line center because we don't have one on this team, with or without Sheahan.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think Wilson - Rowney - Reaves will be a hell of a 4th line.

Seriously?

 

[Peat]

I'm just saying without a center pivot as good as Cullen on that 4th line, trying to run a Craig Patrick-esque offensive fourth line would be a disaster. We had success with it, but many teams have been successful running the opposite.

I hear that.

I just want to keep as much offence as possible on L4 without weakening its defensive qualities.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm just saying without a center pivot as good as Cullen on that 4th line, trying to run a Craig Patrick-esque offensive fourth line would be a disaster. We had success with it, but many teams have been successful running the opposite.

Yeah that's definitely reasonable and we will likely see more of a smash mouth 4th line that chips in the odd goal.

 

[vodeni]

the best part of the fourth line conundrum: Mike S. He won't let Adams vitale Glass linger for too long, we have a huge pool of 4th liners that can fit the role, play defensively but also chip in offensively. both Mcs, Archie, Kuhn, TB, Dea, etc, etc...they are all better players than the above mentioned infamous line....Even G. Wilson looked pretty good last night...Counrt me as an optimist!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think the team we should be focusing on is Winnipeg. Scheifele and Little will be there for a long time after Little re-signed. Lowry is ideal as a 3C and they have 3 candidates to center the fourth line: no-talent Matt Hendricks, Andrew Copp and Nic Petan. Petan and Jack Roslovic are two guys who would be great No. 3 centers for us.

Also, there are at least 3 teams currently looking for a left defenseman: Calgary for the third pairing, Boston for depth after losing Krug and already having four RD's, and Montreal (for the top pairing to play with Weber).

Pouliot in deals for Jankowski (Cgy), Spooner (Bos) or Galchenyuk (Mtl) make some sense, depending on what else we'd have to add.


But Winnipeg should be the team we watch closely. Petan or Roslovic.

 

[madinsomniac]

If Jake scores over 60 points this year the Colorado fans might feel salty that sakic didn't get him when he was probably available for Duchene

 

[Riptide]

Since we won 2 Cups with Matt Cullen scoring like a 3C and his wingers trailing a little behind.

He also spent significant time as our #3C - which is a huge reason why he produced like he did. Not saying he wouldn't have produced anyway, but I remember looking at his numbers from 15/16 based on who else was healthy, and his production was much more like a good #4C when he was actually in that role. IIRC his pace over those games was in the low 20s. The rest of his production came when Crosby, Malkin or Bonino was injured.

Doesn't change the fact that we had a player capable of playing as a #3C as our #4C, but I think a lot of people look at his production and forget where exactly it came from. I mean look at the numbers from this year. Our top 3Cs missed 29 games, and of those Cullen was playing up in the lineup for 23 of them (his and Malkin's injuries overlapped a little in Jan). But for those 23 games, he scored 4 goals and 18 points. Now this isn't to suggest I wasn't happy with him - I was. But that means that out of his 13 goals and 31 points he scored, over half of it came in a bigger role. Which means his actual production while on the 4th line was 8g/13pts in 49 games - or a 13g/22pt pace. And replacing that specifically will not be that hard. Rowney - even with Reaves on his line can likely cover at least 75% of that. It's not until you need him to move up in the lineup that Cullen's impact (offensively) will be missed.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I've thought for a while that Cullen's gonna be harder to replace than Bonino. Our 3rd line has been all about the wingers, but our 4th line has been all about the center.

Not that Bonino was bad, but I don't think he's the cornerstone that made that 3rd line work. When HBK was clicking, he wasn't the reason. When our 4th line was playing exceedingly well, it was Cullen for the most part. Bonino benefited from our winger depth and playing behind Sid and Geno, whereas Cullen was by far and away the best 4th line center in the league, imo.

I'd still like to see us land a legitimate replacement for Bonino, which I don't think will be too difficult, but our 4th line is going to have to be completely different in its style of play. Not that there's only one way for us to be successful, but we're likely going to see a dramatic drop in production and possession by our 4th line. Hopefully we can keep the speed element and add a physically punishing forechecking element to shift the dynamic but still remain effective.

There's something to be said about the effect a 4th line physically punishing opposing defenders via forecheck can have for the scoring lines. It wears guys down, and makes them take that extra second when chasing loose pucks in the corners and behind the net to look around. That's what I'm hoping Reaves can bring--not necessarily a guy who is going to drop the gloves or land a big open ice hit that doesn't really change anything during the course of the game, but a guy driving the other team's defensemen crazy on the forecheck.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Jake scores over 60 points this year the Colorado fans might feel salty that sakic didn't get him when he was probably available for Duchene

I don't think he was available for Duchene, I feel like JR and Sullivan were high on the kid already and him being called up was to see what they had in him before they made a move and what they saw made them say no.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I don't think he was available for Duchene, I feel like JR and Sullivan were high on the kid already and him being called up was to see what they had in him before they made a move and what they saw made them say no.

If we're talking about Colorado getting salty, all that's really necessary is the perception that Jake was available. They can get angry over falsehood as easily as fact.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If we're talking about Colorado getting salty, all that's really necessary is the perception that Jake was available. They can get angry over falsehood as easily as fact.

I don't think Colorado is really salty with anyone, we're assuming here that Sakic knows enough of what he's doing to be salty. We're giving Joe far too much credit here with doing his due diligence with scouting for trades. If Guentzel was someone Sakic wanted, I still don't think he was available. Guentz started his year hot in the AHL, there was never a way the Pens were going to move a kid without testing him out first. Sakic HAD to have known that, at least that much. I hope.

In any case, I hate the mention of Duchene and I am glad the Penguins are not really all that involved in that besides JR doing his usual kicking of the tires.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

We're talking about the fans.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We're talking about the fans.

Ah ok, my bad.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Colorado fans have the right to be salty, I think. They have a team that's fallen off of a cliff after a promising season a couple years ago, an incompetent GM that's so terrified to do something wrong that he's doing nothing at all, and an extremely valuable asset that's VERY clearly unhappy with the situation and how it's played out.

That's a shitty situation. But, as a lifelong Bills fan, it's tough for me to really feel bad for them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Colorado fans have the right to be salty, I think. They have a team that's fallen off of a cliff after a promising season a couple years ago, an incompetent GM that's so terrified to do something wrong that he's doing nothing at all, and an extremely valuable asset that's VERY clearly unhappy with the situation and how it's played out.

That's a shitty situation. But, as a lifelong Bills fan, it's tough for me to really feel bad for them.

I think if I was an Avs fan, I would be pissed at the ownership mostly, they've let mediocre people run a team that was once one of the Western Conference's best, into one of the biggest jokes in the league as a whole. How brutal is that? They have a very strong and loyal fan base, but holy crap...if I had Sakic just being a tool and the worst possible head coach on the bench, yeah I'd be choked with the ownership.

 

[Pens x]

I'd still like to see us land a legitimate replacement for Bonino, which I don't think will be too difficult

I strongly disagree that it's not difficult to find a legitimate third line center. I have to think JR knew he wouldn't sign Bones before free agency started. So here we are, a couple days before October and we have arguably the two worst bottom six centers in the league.

It seems that at best, we will acquire Riley Sheahan. Sheahan is one of 12 forwards in NHL history to play 80 games and score two goals or less on a season.

So please, if it was so easy to find a third line center why are pursuing such a gamble? Why wasn't this center situation solved if it was that easy?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I strongly disagree that it's not difficult to find a legitimate third line center. I have to think JR knew he wouldn't sign Bones before free agency started. So here we are, a couple days before October and we have arguably the two worst bottom six centers in the league.

It seems that at best, we will acquire Riley Sheahan. Sheahan is one of 12 forwards in NHL history to play 80 games and score two goals or less on a season.

So please, if it was so easy to find a third line center why are pursuing such a gamble? Why wasn't this center situation solved if it was that easy?

It's one thing to try and find a 3C that puts you over the top in an effort to contend for a Cup. It's another entirely to find a guy that fits well with this team and its current winger depth. That opens up a lot more options, imo.

We don't need a stud 3C, as evidenced by two Cup wins in a row with Bonino as ours. I just want JR and Sullivan to find the right guy as opposed to a guy. I'm not happy that it's pretty much opening night and we have two nobodies as our 3C and 4C, but as long as we find the right guy before the Trade Deadline, I'll be patient. It's not gonna be pretty, but it is what it is.

And I think, regardless of who we land, they will see an uptick in performance as well as production. They'll have the benefit of playing behind two lines that the opposition will gameplan for before even thinking about the Pens' third line, and the new guy will have some seriously good wingers to play with, whether it be Hagelin, Hornqvist, Rust, Kessel, Sheary, etc.

All we need from our 3C is solid faceoffs, the ability to skate well, and to get our wingers the puck and stay out of their way. I'm not overly concerned with someone's past production, since the situation here will likely be infinitely better for them.

Maybe it's taking so long because JR and/or Sullivan don't find any readily available options to be good fits. Maybe they're waiting for a certain guy that they think will be available. Maybe they're waiting to see how guys play for the first couple weeks of the season before pulling the trigger on a deal. I'm as impatient as anyone, and I'm as unhappy that we're still in this situation as anyone, but I'll try to remain optimistic and defer judgment to JR and Sully on the situation. Who knows? Maybe this McKegg kid turns out to be exactly what we need and he excels. Highly unlikely, but it's possible.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

Personally, I just can't get too worked up about it, because no amount of pissing and groaning is suddenly going to make a quality 3C fall into JR's lap.

 

[Shady Machine]

He also spent significant time as our #3C - which is a huge reason why he produced like he did. Not saying he wouldn't have produced anyway, but I remember looking at his numbers from 15/16 based on who else was healthy, and his production was much more like a good #4C when he was actually in that role. IIRC his pace over those games was in the low 20s. The rest of his production came when Crosby, Malkin or Bonino was injured.

Doesn't change the fact that we had a player capable of playing as a #3C as our #4C, but I think a lot of people look at his production and forget where exactly it came from. I mean look at the numbers from this year. Our top 3Cs missed 29 games, and of those Cullen was playing up in the lineup for 23 of them (his and Malkin's injuries overlapped a little in Jan). But for those 23 games, he scored 4 goals and 18 points. Now this isn't to suggest I wasn't happy with him - I was. But that means that out of his 13 goals and 31 points he scored, over half of it came in a bigger role. Which means his actual production while on the 4th line was 8g/13pts in 49 games - or a 13g/22pt pace. And replacing that specifically will not be that hard. Rowney - even with Reaves on his line can likely cover at least 75% of that. It's not until you need him to move up in the lineup that Cullen's impact (offensively) will be missed.

But we will have injuries and we will need a center that can move up. No idea why you are discounting the importance of Cullen because he scored a lot of points when forced up the lineup. That's one of the reasons he was so important.

Also, I'd put good money on Rowney not scoring 22 points if he plays exclusively on the 4th line with Reaves and Wilson/Archibald/Kuhnhackl. Remember Rowney played some time on the wing both on the 3rd and 4th line. It's far from a guarantee as a primary center playing 11 minutes a night that he can put up 20+ points

 

[Shady Machine]

It's one thing to try and find a 3C that puts you over the top in an effort to contend for a Cup. It's another entirely to find a guy that fits well with this team and its current winger depth. That opens up a lot more options, imo.

We don't need a stud 3C, as evidenced by two Cup wins in a row with Bonino as ours. I just want JR and Sullivan to find the right guy as opposed to a guy. I'm not happy that it's pretty much opening night and we have two nobodies as our 3C and 4C, but as long as we find the right guy before the Trade Deadline, I'll be patient. It's not gonna be pretty, but it is what it is.

And I think, regardless of who we land, they will see an uptick in performance as well as production. They'll have the benefit of playing behind two lines that the opposition will gameplan for before even thinking about the Pens' third line, and the new guy will have some seriously good wingers to play with, whether it be Hagelin, Hornqvist, Rust, Kessel, Sheary, etc.

All we need from our 3C is solid faceoffs, the ability to skate well, and to get our wingers the puck and stay out of their way. I'm not overly concerned with someone's past production, since the situation here will likely be infinitely better for them.

Maybe it's taking so long because JR and/or Sullivan don't find any readily available options to be good fits. Maybe they're waiting for a certain guy that they think will be available. Maybe they're waiting to see how guys play for the first couple weeks of the season before pulling the trigger on a deal. I'm as impatient as anyone, and I'm as unhappy that we're still in this situation as anyone, but I'll try to remain optimistic and defer judgment to JR and Sully on the situation. Who knows? Maybe this McKegg kid turns out to be exactly what we need and he excels. Highly unlikely, but it's possible.

You are completely downplaying Bonino's abilities. He's not a laughable 3C. He's an above average one and was a bigger contributor to our success than you are letting on. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, Cullen might even be harder to replace. So one can argue that we do need STUD 3C to replace the combined impact of having 2 3rd line center quality guys behind Sid and Geno.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

You are completely downplaying Bonino's abilities. He's not a laughable 3C. He's an above average one and was a bigger contributor to our success than you are letting on. Plus, as you mentioned earlier, Cullen might even be harder to replace. So one can argue that we do need STUD 3C to replace the combined impact of having 2 3rd line center quality guys behind Sid and Geno.

I never said he was a laughable 3C, didn't even hint at it, but he's nowhere near the best in the league at what he does either. Middle of the pack depth center that thrived at times because of the matchups he faced and the linemates he was able to play with. That's my two cents on the guy. We will absolutely miss his faceoff ability and play on the PK, But his passing, skating and goal scoring were nothing to lose sleep over. /shrug

I don't think it'll be hard to find a guy who can do what we need from our 3C, but there are obviously guys who will fit better than others. I think all we really need is a guy who can win faceoffs, skate pretty well and get his wingers the puck--doesn't have to be a great passer, just someone who isn't wholly incapable with the puck on his stick. Now, I still think JR and Sully have a couple of guys in mind, several of which we don't have any clue about. I'm almost positive something gets done by Christmas. I'm just hoping it's not going to be a player that costs a ton (unless it's Duchene, but without including Sprong or Guentzel that's likely impossible) and it's a guy that fits our style/system moreso than it's a guy that has a fancy stat line.

As for replacing the combined impact of Bonino and Cullen, I think we do that through wingers and Letang--at least production-wise. A full year of Sid flanked by Guentzel and Sheary is likely going to produce far more than Sid's line did last season before Guentzel came up. Letang's presence, if he doesn't get injured and miss his annual 25 games, should be a huge boost to our production from the blueline as well. We're still going to feel the loss in the faceoff dot, and likely on the PK, but production-wise I don't think it'll be that big of a deal at all.

 

[Asuna]

I'm just saying without a center pivot as good as Cullen on that 4th line, trying to run a Craig Patrick-esque offensive fourth line would be a disaster. We had success with it, but many teams have been successful running the opposite.

but have those successful teams won back to back cups?