Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Something Happened!

[NMK11]

It is unlikely they will lose both Cole and Hunwick. Cole will definitely be gone. I like him a lot, hes' bled for this team, but hes going to get way too high of offers from other teams and ultimately, his style is one you can replace. Hunwick...I don't know. I wasn't thrilled about his signing this off season, and so far I haven't really seen anything to make me feel like he's worth what he's paid here, but its really not by much and I wouldn't care too much if he stays.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

LOL what? He might forego FA if you're talking about a 5 year deal at what he's making now... but 2 years? He'll laugh all the way to FA.

Dorsett has a 4x2.65m contract (signed in 2015)
Martin has a 4x2.5m contract (signed in 2016)
Hendricks had a 4x1.85m contract (signed in 2013)
McLeod has a 3x1.33m contract (signed in 2014)

And how old were those guys at the time they signed? What kind of seasons were they coming off when they signed?

Dorsett was coming off a 12 goal, 20 point season when he signed for $1.633 million, then a 25-point season when he signed his latest $2.65 million deal.

Martin was coming off a 10 goal, 19 point season when the Leafs signed him. He was also only 27 years old.

McLeod is probably the closest comparable, but he did have a 15-goal season in his career that the team signing him might have thought suggested potential upside.

Hendricks is the only guy on the list who seems to have gotten a contract above what you'd expect for some of his role/production.

Reaves has a career high of 13 points. He's only surpassed 10 points twice in his career. Even as low as those guys' production is, they still had more of a resume than Reaves does when it comes to arguing salary.

I'll say right now. I'd be shocked if Reaves got much more than what he currently makes on the open market. Unless he goes on to have some sort of huge career year this year (20+ points), I don't think you can compare him to those guys and use their salaries as measuring sticks.

 

[Peat]

And how old were those guys at the time they signed? What kind of seasons were they coming off when they signed?

Dorsett was coming off a 12 goal, 20 point season when he signed for $1.633 million, then a 25-point season when he signed his latest $2.65 million deal.

Martin was coming off a 10 goal, 19 point season when the Leafs signed him. He was also only 27 years old.

McLeod is probably the closest comparable, but he did have a 15-goal season in his career that the team signing him might have thought suggested potential upside.

Hendricks is the only guy on the list who seems to have gotten a contract above what you'd expect for some of his role/production.

Reaves has a career high of 13 points. He's only surpassed 10 points twice in his career. Even as low as those guys' production is, they still had more of a resume than Reaves does when it comes to arguing salary.

I'll say right now. I'd be shocked if Reaves got much more than what he currently makes on the open market. Unless he goes on to have some sort of huge career year this year (20+ points), I don't think you can compare him to those guys and use their salaries as measuring sticks.

You could have answered the age question yourself while looking it up McLeod and Hendricks were roughly the same age.

Where your argument falls down heavily is you're completely ignoring term. Maybe Reaves can't make as many spoondolicks as the rest of them, but he can sure as hell look for 3 years and maybe 4. Given that this will be his last contract where he can expect 7 figures a year, it seems logical to assume he's looking for that and not the 2 years you posit. Given the comparables, it seems likely it will be on offer.

Although I'm not so sure about him not being able to get that money either. If McLeod and Hendricks could get it, why not Reaves? McLeod's 15 goal season was six seasons before he signed, I doubt that anyone thought he still had upside.


edit: p.s. Either Hagelin's level rises again and he becomes a player we want to keep, or he doesn't and he becomes difficult to move. Either way, I don't think he's going to stop being one of our 8 best wingers anytime soon, and I don't particularly see needing his cap hit until it expires either. As such, I see no particular reason to trade him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You could have answered the age question yourself while looking it up McLeod and Hendricks were roughly the same age.

Where your argument falls down heavily is you're completely ignoring term. Maybe Reaves can't make as many spoondolicks as the rest of them, but he can sure as hell look for 3 years and maybe 4. Given that this will be his last contract where he can expect 7 figures a year, it seems logical to assume he's looking for that and not the 2 years you posit. Given the comparables, it seems likely it will be on offer.

Although I'm not so sure about him not being able to get that money either. If McLeod and Hendricks could get it, why not Reaves? McLeod's 15 goal season was six seasons before he signed, I doubt that anyone thought he still had upside.
.

The point is they're not directly comparable players because they were much more productive than Reaves at the time of them being signed. Also, the age thing was more directed at the two making $2+ million to show they're not even close to comparables.

Another guy who I'd consider a level above Reaves in terms of overall value is Chris Neil. Ignoring this last deal, since it was a 1 year "retirement" deal, he signed a 4-year, $2 million deal in 2009, then signed another 3-year, $1.9 million deal in 2013 when that prior deal ran out. Except he signed those deals coming off seasons of multiple 20+ point seasons.

Look at how much guys like Peluso, Thorburn, Gazdic, etc. sign for. I think Reaves's contract value is somewhere between those guys (pure goons) and the guys above (useful 4th liners with more offensive production). Heck, Thorburn's probably the best reference you can find. This latest deal, 2 years at $900k, prior to that 3 years at $1.2 million, for slightly better production than Reaves.

So I just don't see how Reaves would be able to command a 3 or 4 year deal at more than his current salary, when the only comparables for that kind of term or money are guys who typically do what Reaves does, but also double him in production most years.

Edit: Now if your sole contention is the term argument, fair enough. Maybe he can get 3 years or whatever. But the bigger point I was making was more about salary, and that if the Pens offer some kind of term (2 years), he might be more inclined to take that with the same salary in a situation he's comfortable instead of opting for free agency and hope another team offers more than 1 year or more money.

 

[Riptide]

Edit: Now if your sole contention is the term argument, fair enough. Maybe he can get 3 years or whatever. But the bigger point I was making was more about salary, and that if the Pens offer some kind of term (2 years), he might be more inclined to take that with the same salary in a situation he's comfortable instead of opting for free agency and hope another team offers more than 1 year or more money.

It's actually both. He'll get 3-4 years from someone, and he'll get a noticeable raise over what he's making today. I'd say at the very least he's in the 1.4-1.6m range. And I suspect it'll actually be a lot higher than that due to the fact that he's seen as the 'best there is' at what he does... aka be an enforcer AND a legit hockey player who's not just a goon.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

 

[JRS91]

Hopefully they're scouting Erik Haula.

I'll never understand why people think we need Duchene or Galchenyuk. We need a good two-way center, not defensive liabilities. There's a reason they acquired Sheahan.

 

[Gurglesons]

I believe I was the first to talk up the Karlsson option here and remember seeing little interest when I suggested giving them our 1st rounder for him before the season.
I'd still do that, for sure.

But I have no interest in moving Rust for him. Rust is a keeper.

I mean, I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are forced to move Rust this off season if we keep Horny.

 

[NMK11]

I mean, I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are forced to move Rust this off season if we keep Horny.

So out of curiosity, who would this board sign if you could only choose one?

Horny: the best in the league at what he does, near impossible to completely replace, but older, more expensive, and harder to fit into our lineup

-or-

Rust: younger, faster, easier to move around in the lineup, and cheaper, but not as unique of a player and not as proven of a 20g scorer and Horny

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We don't have any games against either team until mid-December so it's not advance scouting. Hope it's for Duchene or Haula. That'd be great.

 

[Jacob]

Scouts probably like to hit up games as groups so they can grab drinks afterwards and compare notes, or just shoot the breeze. Probably doesn't hurt that two west coast bottom-feeders, and likely deadline sellers, are playing eachother.

I never read much into reports of certain scouts attending games.

 

[Riptide]

Hopefully they're scouting Erik Haula.

I'll never understand why people think we need Duchene or Galchenyuk. We need a good two-way center, not defensive liabilities. There's a reason they acquired Sheahan.

Meh. I'd "settle" for Karlsson.

 

[Riptide]

I mean, I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if we are forced to move Rust this off season if we keep Horny.

Given the difference in their versatility, speed, contract demands and ability to play anywhere in the lineup
(or our centers willingness if you prefer), I'd keep Rust before I keep Hornqvist. Hornqvist is without a doubt the better player. But signing a 25 yr old to a 5x3m deal is a lot more manageable then signing Hornqvist at 31 to a 5 or 6x5.5m deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

So out of curiosity, who would this board sign if you could only choose one?

Horny: the best in the league at what he does, near impossible to completely replace, but older, more expensive, and harder to fit into our lineup

-or-

Rust: younger, faster, easier to move around in the lineup, and cheaper, but not as unique of a player and not as proven of a 20g scorer and Horny

I think it really depends on what happens this playoffs. If we have another deep run and Rust puts up another 6 or 7 goals, I don't know if he is going to be worth what he is going to cost.

Like Hornqvist is clearly the better player, but at the same time we know for a fact he is going to be a 20 goal scorer most seasons and I don't think his game really "ages".

 

[Riptide]

Scouts probably like to hit up games as groups so they can grab drinks afterwards and compare notes, or just shoot the breeze. Probably doesn't hurt that two west coast bottom-feeders, and likely deadline sellers, are playing eachother.

I never read much into reports of certain scouts attending games.

The only time I start getting interested about it, is when we're scouting a team over and over and do not play them for months. Like if we scouted LV's next 5 games and do not play them until late Feb, I'd be interested in why. However if we play said team anytime in the next month, it's a lot more meh.

In this case, it's likely just to get some eyes on two teams who will likely be sellers, so that opinions are made with multiple viewings and not just what goes down in Jan-Mar.

 

[Gurglesons]

Given the difference in their versatility, speed, contract demands and ability to play anywhere in the lineup
(or our centers willingness if you prefer), I'd keep Rust before I keep Hornqvist. Hornqvist is without a doubt the better player. But signing a 25 yr old to a 5x3m deal is a lot more manageable then signing Hornqvist at 31 to a 5 or 6x5.5m deal.

Sheahan is going to cause some issues for our cap with his extra year.

 

[Riptide]

Sheahan is going to cause some issues for our cap with his extra year.

Why? What's he going to get this summer that is going to cause us issues? I mean lets aim high and say that he exceeds expectations and gets a 3x3m contract (looking at Haula's as a reference and going above that).

Guentzel - Crosby - Sheary
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Sheahan - Sprong
Kuhnhackl - McKegg - Archie

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Hunwick - Ruhwedel

MM / DeSmith

Salary Cap: 77m
Cap Spent: 70.36m
Cap Space: 6.63m

Rust (3m), Seahan (3m), Sprong (950k), Kuhnhackl (900k), McKegg (850k)

The issue is not going to be next summer. It will be the following one when we need to give Guentzel his raise, replace Hagelin, likely find a Cole replacement... all while not f***ing ourselves for when we need to sign Sheary, Schultz and Murray to new contracts the following year in the summer of 2020. But short term (this year and next season?)... our cap is fine as long as we can get away with short term contracts for anyone making real money.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why? What's he going to get this summer that is going to cause us issues? I mean lets aim high and say that he exceeds expectations and gets a 3x3m contract (looking at Haula's as a reference and going above that).

Guentzel - Crosby - Sheary
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Rust - Sheahan - Sprong
Kuhnhackl - McKegg - Archie

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta - Schultz
Hunwick - Ruhwedel

MM / DeSmith

Salary Cap: 77m
Cap Spent: 70.36m
Cap Space: 6.63m

Rust (3m), Seahan (3m), Sprong (950k), Kuhnhackl (900k), McKegg (850k)

The issue is not going to be next summer. It will be the following one when we need to give Guentzel his raise, replace Hagelin, likely find a Cole replacement... all while not ****ing ourselves for when we need to sign Sheary, Schultz and Murray to new contracts the following year in the summer of 2020. But short term (this year and next season?)... our cap is fine as long as we can get away with short term contracts for anyone making real money.

Rust at 3 mil is praying. Kuhnhackl needs a new contract. That line-up above is ugly too.

 

[66-30-33]

Down the middle...

Crosby
Malkin
Duchene
Sheahan

vs

Crosby
Malkin
Haula
Sheahan

 

[chethejet]

Priorities are Hornqvist, Rust as a bridge and maybe Cole. Reaves. Kuhnackle, Sheahan are affordable. pens have 14 million to 16 million depending on the cap next year. Pens can move Hags and or Sheary with Sprong and Reese next year. Pens have plenty of room.

 

[Shady Machine]

lol Kulemin might be this boards biggest obsession ever

 

[66-30-33]

Priorities are Hornqvist, Rust as a bridge and maybe Cole. Reaves. Kuhnackle, Sheahan are affordable. pens have 14 million to 16 million depending on the cap next year. Pens can move Hags and or Sheary with Sprong and Reese next year. Pens have plenty of room.

Hags to Vegas and use that money on Hornqvist and Sheahan if he does not suck? 6M for 5 years i'd give to Hornqvist unless he wants out. See what Grabner is looking for and maybe he can be our cheaper Hags?

 

[NMK11]

The issue is not going to be next summer. It will be the following one when we need to give Guentzel his raise, replace Hagelin, likely find a Cole replacement... all while not ****ing ourselves for when we need to sign Sheary, Schultz and Murray to new contracts the following year in the summer of 2020. But short term (this year and next season?)... our cap is fine as long as we can get away with short term contracts for anyone making real money.

Coles contract is up after this year.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

Down the middle...

Crosby
Malkin
Duchene
Sheahan

vs

Crosby
Malkin
Haula
Sheahan

Bottom one.

Not getting Duchene without giving up Maatta(and probably Sprong).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

lol Kulemin might be this boards biggest obsession ever

The obsession with Kulemin seems to stem from him and Malkin looking good together a half decade ago.

I'm not sure how much people have seen of Kulemin since then, however. You'd probably get as much production out of playing Plotnikov next to Malkin at this point in time.