Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Something Happened!

[Dipsy Doodle]

Don't like it.

Hunwick's a #6 and Ruhwedel's a #7.

I dunno, I wouldn't definitively characterize them that way at this point. I thought Ruh was very good in his role last year, and I don't think he's been a liability on the bottom pairing this year.

There's also having to pay through the nose for any defenseman established enough to be looked at as a Cole replacement. I'd say throwing out a defenseman that good in a bottom pairing role is a luxury few teams have.

 

[Shaffer]

I’d like to trade Hagelin at the draft and sign Grabner in FA.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I dunno, I wouldn't definitively characterize them that way at this point. I thought Ruh was very good in his role last year, and I don't think he's been a liability on the bottom pairing this year.

There's also having to pay through the nose for any defenseman established enough to be looked at as a Cole replacement. I'd say throwing out a defenseman that good in a bottom pairing role is a luxury few teams have.

People on here are OBSESSED with acquiring a 6D who is really just a 4D diamond in the rough or a 3C who can "seamlessly" replace Crosby or Malkin in case of an injury. Sometimes a 5/6D is just a 5/6D and a 3C is just a 3C. The team isn't in a position to pay luxury prices for what amounts to luxury pieces. You have to make due with lower-paid players in smaller roles who may only be able to give slightly below average performance. Worry about those things when those role players are actively costing the team games (Niemi).

 

[Peat]

I dunno, I wouldn't definitively characterize them that way at this point. I thought Ruh was very good in his role last year, and I don't think he's been a liability on the bottom pairing this year.

There's also having to pay through the nose for any defenseman established enough to be looked at as a Cole replacement. I'd say throwing out a defenseman that good in a bottom pairing role is a luxury few teams have.

I would tentatively characterise them as other. I'm quite happy with saying Hunwick looks about as good as Cole and Ruhwedel like he might be a #6 based on the scant evidence to date.

Although in an ideal world, Bengtsson is bucking hard for an NHL slot next year, or we can find another cheap reclaimation project to fill that space.

Yeah, they need to re-sign him. Sid might not enjoy playing with him, but we can and will have to go with PH on Sid's line for certain matchups, in case of injury, etc. I'd part with Hagelin way before PH.

We're getting on for a calender year of regularly not putting PH on Sid's line when we could and should have. I like that we've resumed using the pairing at times this season, but he's still only spending a third of his ES ice time with Sid, which is a lot of time when he probably should be with Sid that he's not.

And, seriously, can someone please explain to me what the hell Hagelin has to do with whether we resign Horny or not? The main worries with Hornqvist are 'Can We Get Him On A Sane Contract" and "Where Are We Playing Him", followed by "Will This Look Like A Good Idea After We Pay Guentzel And Murray". Paying for him next year is the least of our worries.

At the draft we should trade Hags. A mock trade would be around Hags to Avs for their fourth. Then Avs could retain 50% off of Hags and trade him at the 2019 deadline.

What do you think people are paying for 50% off Hags at the 2019 deadline?

 

[Shaffer]

What do you think people are paying for 50% off Hags at the 2019 deadline?

Late 2nd, but that’s in a year and a half so who knows.

 

[Andy99]

I’d like to trade Hagelin at the draft and sign Grabner in FA.

If he has another good year, he will get close to Hags salary in FA. Of course, he's better than Hags offensively...not defensively though

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’d like to trade Hagelin at the draft and sign Grabner in FA.

Seems like signing Grabner defeats the purpose of moving Hags (clear up cap space) to me.

 

[Shaffer]

Seems like signing Grabner defeats the purpose of moving Hags (clear up cap space) to me.

Say Grabner makes 2.5-3m. We are gaining 1-1.5m in cap space.

 

[Peat]

Say Grabner makes 2.5-3m. We are gaining 1-1.5m in cap space.

And lose 3m in cap space the season after, which is when we actually start to have cap problems. No thanks.

As for trading Hagelin for a late 2nd at the deadline... that feels optimistic, and that's still only a 40-50 jump in selections, with it narrowing down to about 10-20 places to nothing if it goes badly. Or in other words, I don't see people giving 4th in the hope of flipping Hagelin, not unless his form recovers markedly.

 

[Shaffer]

And lose 3m in cap space the season after, which is when we actually start to have cap problems. No thanks.

As for trading Hagelin for a late 2nd at the deadline... that feels optimistic, and that's still only a 40-50 jump in selections, with it narrowing down to about 10-20 places to nothing if it goes badly. Or in other words, I don't see people giving 4th in the hope of flipping Hagelin, not unless his form recovers markedly.

Doesn’t have to be a fourth. Could be a fifth. Point is Hagelin has got to go this offseason. Not inseason because he isn’t creating cap problems right now.

 

[madinsomniac]

Look, to date the only two real disappointments on the roster( Niemi isn't anymore) are really Hags and Letang and both had serious injuries last year.... i think the team is in a pretty good spot even if no roster upgrades are needed

 

[Peat]

Doesn’t have to be a fourth. Could be a fifth. Point is Hagelin has got to go this offseason. Not inseason because he isn’t creating cap problems right now.

Why has he got to go?

He's still one of our 8 best wingers and there's no great certainty that he'll be causing cap problems next season either.

 

[Shaffer]

Why has he got to go?

He's still one of our 8 best wingers and there's no great certainty that he'll be causing cap problems next season either.

He gets moved back to fourth line with Sprong in the lineup when somebody way cheaper can play for him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He gets moved back to fourth line with Sprong in the lineup when somebody way cheaper can play for him.

but until we actually need the cap space, there's no reason to dump him. If we need it next year to bring back Horny or for a 3rd pairing D, then by all means move him. But don't just dump him because it feels wrong paying him to be on the 4th line. I wish Hags could score more, but he's still a hell of a lot more productive than cap space.

 

[Shaffer]

but until we actually need the cap space, there's no reason to dump him. If we need it next year to bring back Horny or for a 3rd pairing D, then by all means move him. But don't just dump him because it feels wrong paying him to be on the 4th line. I wish Hags could score more, but he's still a hell of a lot more productive than cap space.

You just said what I’m trying to say. Hornqvist, Rust, and Cole need new contracts and I’d trade Hagelin to keep anyone of them. This year he’s going to play fourth line when Sprong comes up, then we will need to sign some guys in the summer and Hags sets that back.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really don't see why people insist Hornqvist is a must sign player, he's just not. If you can't find a spot for him at ES, which seems kinda likely based on who else the Penguins have on the roster, you don't pay significant money into keeping him. It's just being way too attached to those players. If Hornqvist would be willing to sign a 3 year deal at $5 million, I'd make space for him. However, I'm not going to match whatever he's going to get from other teams just to keep him. That would be a horribly shortsighted move, it puts the Penguins in handcuffs with the cap and roster management long term. What Hornqvist brings to the table on the powerplay is nearly irreplaceable, but the Penguins just have too many other good RWers to justify giving him a huge contract. That doesn't even mention Hornqvist's bad fit with Malkin and Crosby not liking playing with Hornqvist, either.

If you re-sign Hornqvist for $6 million for 6 years (which is very likely similar to something he'll get in free agency), you're locked into a $6 million guy on your 3rd line for 6 years. Just like you can't justify paying Bonino $4.1 million to stay here as the 3C since the Penguins don't have anyone to internally replace him, you can't justify paying Hornqvist $6 million to stay here as the 3RW.

 

[Pens x]

So what's the deal with Zaripov?

There was that report that other teams had shown interest but he's waiting for the Pens? 14% of the season is over, I'm surprised he hasn't signed elsewhere unless no other team has any legitimate interest.

 

[Peat]

You just said what I’m trying to say. Hornqvist, Rust, and Cole need new contracts and I’d trade Hagelin to keep anyone of them. This year he’s going to play fourth line when Sprong comes up, then we will need to sign some guys in the summer and Hags sets that back.

Its quite unlikely that we'll be able to sign both Hornqvist and Cole to sensible new contracts; we're probably losing one of them. That and a likely salary cap raise will probably pay for our new contracts. Not certainly, but its odds on at this moment.

And Hagelin isn't the problem with signing them to sensible new contracts, its free agency.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I really don't see why people insist Hornqvist is a must sign player, he's just not. If you can't find a spot for him at ES, which seems kinda likely based on who else the Penguins have on the roster, you don't pay significant money into keeping him. It's just being way too attached to those players. If Hornqvist would be willing to sign a 3 year deal at $5 million, I'd make space for him. However, I'm not going to match whatever he's going to get from other teams just to keep him. That would be a horribly shortsighted move, it puts the Penguins in handcuffs with the cap and roster management long term. What Hornqvist brings to the table on the powerplay is nearly irreplaceable, but the Penguins just have too many other good RWers to justify giving him a huge contract. That doesn't even mention Hornqvist's bad fit with Malkin and Crosby not liking playing with Hornqvist, either.

If you re-sign Hornqvist for $6 million for 6 years (which is very likely similar to something he'll get in free agency), you're locked into a $6 million guy on your 3rd line for 6 years. Just like you can't justify paying Bonino $4.1 million to stay here as the 3C since the Penguins don't have anyone to internally replace him, you can't justify paying Hornqvist $6 million to stay here as the 3RW.

My concern is about replacing what Hornqvist does. I'm not married to keeping Hornqvist, per se, but I'd want there to be a ready replacement for the type of thing he brings to the table before I'd feel comfortable moving on from him.

I don't think Bonino's a good comparable situation because I think what Bonino brought is much more easily replaced than what Hornqvist does. There's no one in the organization or available via FA or trade who the Pens could add to replace Horny if he's let walk.

 

[Ogrezilla]

You just said what I’m trying to say. Hornqvist, Rust, and Cole need new contracts and I’d trade Hagelin to keep anyone of them. This year he’s going to play fourth line when Sprong comes up, then we will need to sign some guys in the summer and Hags sets that back.

gotcha. The way you said it made it sound like we should put someone cheaper than him in that spot on the 4th line no matter what.

 

[Ogrezilla]

My concern is about replacing what Hornqvist does. I'm not married to keeping Hornqvist, per se, but I'd want there to be a ready replacement for the type of thing he brings to the table before I'd feel comfortable moving on from him.

I don't think Bonino's a good comparable situation because I think what Bonino brought is much more easily replaced than what Hornqvist does. There's no one in the organization or available via FA or trade who the Pens could add to replace Horny if he's let walk.

this is why I really want to keep Horny. He's a completely unique player on the roster. He's a top 2 player in the league at what he does well with Simmonds as his only real competition imo. I have argued many times that Hornqvist's point totals are a poor representation of the number of goals he contributes to for this team. There's obviously a price point where we simply can't afford to keep him, but I sure hope we don't have to go that route.

 

[Shaffer]

Its quite unlikely that we'll be able to sign both Hornqvist and Cole to sensible new contracts; we're probably losing one of them. That and a likely salary cap raise will probably pay for our new contracts. Not certainly, but its odds on at this moment.

And Hagelin isn't the problem with signing them to sensible new contracts, its free agency.

Hornqvist and Rust will likely be retained. Cole not so much. Hagelin doesn’t effect the contracts but he will be playing fourth line minutes and making 4 mil will we can spend that 4 mil on someone else, like a Cole type. Cole shouldn’t be payed 4mil but someone higher than his caliber should be.

 

[Shaffer]

gotcha. The way you said it made it sound like we should put someone cheaper than him in that spot on the 4th line no matter what.

I’d never trade someone because of how much they make. I’d trade someone because they make so much they are effecting the team negatively by losing other players.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

this is why I really want to keep Horny. He's a completely unique player on the roster. He's a top 2 player in the league at what he does well with Simmonds as his only real competition imo. I have argued many times that Hornqvist's point totals are a poor representation of the number of goals he contributes to for this team. There's obviously a price point where we simply can't afford to keep him, but I sure hope we don't have to go that route.

It all depends on if PH is dead set on getting the biggest contract he can, or if he wants to stay here. Having Sid not want him on his line certainly isn't a positive in that regard from PH's perspective. But if PH is willing to sign here for up to about 5.5m on a shorter deal like 3 years, or would go 5.25 or 5 x 4 or 5 years, then you've absolutely got to do it to maximize our chances in the next few years. You really can't worry about 3-4 years from now at this point, especially with a guy like PH who is probably going to be productive for some time.

 

[Riptide]

So what's the deal with Zaripov?

There was that report that other teams had shown interest but he's waiting for the Pens? 14% of the season is over, I'm surprised he hasn't signed elsewhere unless no other team has any legitimate interest.

Nothing. Pens apparently are not interested.