The ROR Beatification Station and Exclusion Zone (Discussion of ROR trade goes here!)

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DolanPlsGoSabres

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It's not even that we miss ROR as much as the return we got for him never did/will never be able to offset the loss of him.

Unless Tage turns into a 30-40 goal scorer :laugh:

Exactly.

The reasoning to trade ROR was a mess, but even if the trade was inevitable, the return was a complete mess.
A quitter, Vlad, a B prospect and 2 lottery tickets?
 
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Sabresfansince1980

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Exactly.

The reasoning to trade ROR was a mess, but even if the trade was inevitable, the return was a complete mess.
A quitter, Vlad, a B prospect and 2 lottery tickets?

Berglund and Sobotka were simply lesser parts that evened out the cap dollars. But what's left is Thompson, Ryan Johnson, and Colin Miller. If those three don't make a difference in the next three years, the final verdict is in.
 

Chainshot

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Housley running him into the ground defensively in a team devoid of hope then taking a giant flaming deuce in the trade return hasn't changed this from being the worst trade this team has made since Dom held all the cards.

Still haven't recovered, ROR's possible off-ice shenanigans aside.
 
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Panthaz89

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The biggest hole on this team is the gaping one where their balls used to be. ROR didn't make a difference in that regard when he was here, and he wouldn't be the difference if we still had him now.

If ROR magically appeared on this team tomorrow, I think you guys would be absolutely gutted when you realize they're still soft as warm butter and still lose games in the same soul crushing ways they do now.
ROR in the top 6 next to Skinner and Johannsson? Ugh yeah then we would have a formidable top 6 not one where ROR was forced to center Okposo+(insert scrub here) he would be next to two very talented players that can help him you normally saw him with Okposos who plays in our bottom 6 now along with someone like Wilson who's basically another 4th liner. Leafs don't have toughness or a fight in them but they can still make the playoffs with that type of top 6 we'd certainly have a shot.
 

Buffaloed

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This is from Dec 26, 2018.
Sabres wanted to win, and that's what they got: Evaluating...

The return seems laughable. In exchange for Ryan O’Reilly — a point-per-game player who is once again earning praise for his work ethic — the Sabres’ package included a guy who quit, a forward who can’t score and a first-round pick that might not arrive until 2020.
Yet Buffalo, like St. Louis, can easily argue it won the trade.

The Sabres wanted to win. After going 25-45-12 last year, they’ve started 21-11-5 without O’Reilly. And they’ve unexpectedly gained a huge chunk of cap space with Berglund’s departure. O’Reilly averages $7.5 million per season, while Sobotka and Thompson combine for a $4.425 million hit. That’s a savings of $3.075 million per season that can be spent elsewhere.
As the teams meet for the first time since the deal, both can be happy with their returns.
 

joshjull

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Vogl continues to carry water for the trade.
I still don’t have a problem with trading ROR for reasons we’ve discussed before. I thought the return was meh and made us less talented initially. The clear winner in the short run were the Blues. But I hoped the kid (Tage) and the pick (Ryan Johnson’s I think) would take some of the sting away and balance it out a bit in a few years.

But I never imagined Berglund would quit hockey entirely like he did. I mean if you had to lay odds on something like that happening, particularly for a player who was universally praised as a great teammate and person, I’d say they wouldn’t rise much above zero. So instead of being the steadying vet influence in the room. He became a distraction Around the time he left was roughly when things started to go sour. We didn’t know it at the time but looking back that seems to be the case.

Berglund quitting obviously made the trade look even worse. It also had the nasty side effect of elevating Sobotka. I’d like to think we would have added Mojo regardless but I feel he’s a replacement for what Botts was hoping for with Berglund.
 
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sabrebuild

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I still don’t have a problem with trading ROR for reasons we’ve discussed before. I thought the return was meh and made us less talented initially. The clear winner in the short run were the Blues. But I hoped the kid (Tage) and the pick (Ryan Johnson’s I think) would take some of the sting away and balance it out a bit in a few years.

But I never imagined Berglund would quit hockey entirely like he did. I mean if you had to lay odds on something like that happening, particularly for a player who was universally praised as a great teammate and person, I’d say they wouldn’t rise much above zero. So instead of being the steadying vet influence in the room. He became a distraction Around the time he left was roughly when things started to go sour. We didn’t know it at the time but looking back that seems to be the case.

Berglund quitting obviously made the trade look ever worse. It also had the nasty side effect of elevating Sobotka. I’d like to think we would have added Mojo regardless but I feel he’s a replacement for what Botts was hoping for with Berglund.

Honestly Berglund quitting was probably the best outcome for the team once that awful return was agreed to.

Imagine 10 million dollars locked into Okposo and Berglund in his thirties for three years.

It was such a bad return. No truly tasty future pick if the plan was stall and rebuild again, no lesser but established young vet if we just wanted a bad egg out and prepared to win.

I assume there was pegula pressure, but if there was ever a time to convince your owner to eat a cash loss and wait for a better return it was then.
 
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joshjull

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Honestly Berglund quitting was probably the best outcome for the team once that awful return was agreed to.

Imagine 10 million dollars locked into Okposo and Berglund in his thirties for three years.

It was such a bad return. No truly tasty future pick if the plan was stall and rebuild again, no lesser but established young vet if we just wanted a bad egg out and prepared to win.

I assume there was pegula pressure, but if there was ever a time to convince your owner to eat a cash loss and wait for a better return it was then.
Cap implications aside. Having a respected vet that young guys like Sam, Jack and Dahlin liked and respected** quit mid season had to be shocking and not helpful. Not long after that was when the wheels started coming off. Its certainly not THE reason for it but it was a contributing factor. After the circus of the previous two years in that locker room they thought it was settled down and ... surprise.

** I’m pretty sure you’re aware of this but all of those players and others spoke quite highly of Berglund in camp and early in the season.
 

sabrebuild

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Cap implications aside. Having a respected vet that young guys like Sam, Jack and Dahlin liked and respected** quit mid season had to be shocking and not helpful. Not long after that was when the wheels started coming off. Its certainly not THE reason for it but it was a contributing factor. After the circus of the previous two years in that locker room they thought it was settled down and ... surprise.

** I’m pretty sure you’re aware of this but all of those players and others spoke quite highly of Berglund in camp and early in the season.

I'm sure Berglund was a good guy in the room.

But he wasn't changing how that season went.

They still had a trash team, and one less impact forward than a year before.

I mean it was such a fundamental misunderstanding of why their room sucked so hard.

Bylsma was an arrogant ahole, and couldn't manage a room to save his life. It was the same story in Pittsburgh and a big reason I be was against the hire.

Housley was a really bad coach in most facets of the job.

They didn't have near enough talent to make the playoffs either year. Not enough Talent. And young kids who received zero discipline.

So sure, we could say that maybe if Berglund was less unhappy and grinded thru the year, he could have scored 20 points, hosted some good dinners made a speech or two and they could have won a couple more games.

But what is the point? Maybe a worse draft pick, and three more years of bad cap that hurts their competitiveness.

It was a poor idea to trade O'Reilly at all. But the execution was so unbelievably bad that it made half the fan base lose their mind and create endless rationalizations to avoid the simple facts.

Its honestly one of the most absurd unforced errors I have seen a gm make in twenty years. The team had everything under their control. Player under term with a good cap. A team not expected to do anything after a last place finish.

There was literally no pressure, but their own to be epically stupid.

It's the basis of the argument we had before, that this was Pegula deciding his ego was more important than the fans and the franchise's success.

There was zero reason to trade O'Reilly before the bonus, other than personal.

Literally every reason in the world would tell a competent person they should wait.

And yet, we rushed the trade for a bad return. It screamed ownership meddling or gm incompetence. Or both.

Truly special. At least Dom forced his way out and the co-caps were in positions to choose their long term, no matter how cheap and slow management was.

This was just pure self harm by the new management.

Its a sad story.
 

Samsonite23

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Just gonna leave this here.

Making up for lost time: How joining the Jets helped Nathan Beaulieu put his disappointment behind
Making up for lost time: How joining the Jets helped Nathan...

“I played on some good teams in Montreal, we made the playoffs every year except for one. Then you go to the complete polar opposite for two years in a row and it tests your will and your love for the game, for sure.
“You heard Ryan O’Reilly say it and I know (the Sabres) didn’t like what he said, but he couldn’t have put it better. I could say the exact same thing.”
 

Snippit

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I still don’t have a problem with trading ROR for reasons we’ve discussed before. I thought the return was meh and made us less talented initially. The clear winner in the short run were the Blues. But I hoped the kid (Tage) and the pick (Ryan Johnson’s I think) would take some of the sting away and balance it out a bit in a few years.

But I never imagined Berglund would quit hockey entirely like he did. I mean if you had to lay odds on something like that happening, particularly for a player who was universally praised as a great teammate and person, I’d say they wouldn’t rise much above zero. So instead of being the steadying vet influence in the room. He became a distraction Around the time he left was roughly when things started to go sour. We didn’t know it at the time but looking back that seems to be the case.

Berglund quitting obviously made the trade look even worse. It also had the nasty side effect of elevating Sobotka. I’d like to think we would have added Mojo regardless but I feel he’s a replacement for what Botts was hoping for with Berglund.

Berglund quitting made the trade better.
 
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sabrebuild

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Berglund and Sobotka were simply lesser parts that evened out the cap dollars. But what's left is Thompson, Ryan Johnson, and Colin Miller. If those three don't make a difference in the next three years, the final verdict is in.

Two veteran bums with significant cap hits and term were simply lesser parts... I remember a different tune than this at the time of the trade.

The verdict is in, it was a terrible trade. Even if the two young guys become serviceable, which is a big if based on draft position for Johnson and Tage so far, you are still talking about several years of Dahlin, Eichel and Reinhart that were wasted.

It's okay to admit you were wrong, rather than say nonsense like Berglund and Sobotka were just cap considerations in that trade. To think 6 years of salary at 7+ million in cap was a minimal part of the trade.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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Two veteran bums with significant cap hits and term were simply lesser parts... I remember a different tune than this at the time of the trade.

The verdict is in, it was a terrible trade. Even if the two young guys become serviceable, which is a big if based on draft position for Johnson and Tage so far, you are still talking about several years of Dahlin, Eichel and Reinhart that were wasted.

It's okay to admit you were wrong, rather than say nonsense like Berglund and Sobotka were just cap considerations in that trade. To think 6 years of salary at 7+ million in cap was a minimal part of the trade.

What was I wrong about? Those two players were in the trade because their cap hits equaled ROR's almost exactly. I assume that since the two GMs had to make the trade cap neutral as possible, that Botterill took two guys he at least thought could fill some bottom-six FW holes, that had some amount of veteran respect in the locker room. That doesn't mean they aren't bad players, just that they fill a hole. Who else worth a damn was Armstrong going to give up (and still make the trade)? I've never said either was a good player, I was happy when Berglund quit (for the sake of the cap situation). Need I say it again...that I hated the trade? A month prior I pushed the idea of targeting Hanifin and Lindholm, because I knew Canes ownership was going to refuse to pay those guys their rightful RFA raises. They went for Hamilton and Ferlund, which Buffalo easily matches with a small add to ROR. Problem is, the cheap owners were never going to pay ROR's bonus. So with Pegula insisting on trading ROR before the bonus, that trade was off the table.

As for "6 years salary at 7+ million...", that's not at all what it would have worked out to. Sobotka and Berglund would combine for 7.385 mil each of the first two years as Sabres. Then Sobotka's deal expires, and Berglund would have cost another 3.85 mil the two years after that. That's a grand total of 22+ mil over four years to pay for the two of them. ROR would cost 37.5 mil over five years. That deal was only cap neutral for the first two seasons, after that it was cap savings to some degree for Buffalo, and Berglund quitting saved more.
 

Panthaz89

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Dec 24, 2016
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Two veteran bums with significant cap hits and term were simply lesser parts... I remember a different tune than this at the time of the trade.

The verdict is in, it was a terrible trade. Even if the two young guys become serviceable, which is a big if based on draft position for Johnson and Tage so far, you are still talking about several years of Dahlin, Eichel and Reinhart that were wasted.

It's okay to admit you were wrong, rather than say nonsense like Berglund and Sobotka were just cap considerations in that trade. To think 6 years of salary at 7+ million in cap was a minimal part of the trade.
the funniest part is that people say they were in the trade to even out the cap..? and i'm like yeah? where the f*** is the compensation for taking on 2 crap players with with millions compared to an elite player with millions....Thompson and a 1st that happened to be 32 as if to say f*** you to all the Sabres fans after being at the bottom of the standings midseason.
 
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Chainshot

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the funniest part is that people say they were in the trade to even out the cap..? and i'm like yeah? where the **** is the compensation for taking on 2 crap players with with millions compared to an elite player with millions....Thompson and a 1st that happened to be 32 as if to say **** you to all the Sabres fans after being at the bottom of the standings midseason.

The talk before the deal was that St. Louis was looking to find a team to take those players on and was willing to part with something to do so. So... yeah. Botts got worked and the team is worse for it.
 

OkimLom

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The talk before the deal was that St. Louis was looking to find a team to take those players on and was willing to part with something to do so. So... yeah. Botts got worked and the team is worse for it.

One team was looking for a team to take terrible players off their books, another was looking for someone to take a signing bonus off their hands...

the judgement for this trade was all the evidence I needed to know I would not be enjoying this management timeline. So many clues were in our face.
 
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