Confirmed with Link: The Riot | Part III

[IcedCapp]

I personally would have kept Despres as he is far from a finished product but there is no guarantee he will turn into what this board seems to think is a sure thing.

Here's my thing. At worst, he is what he is this year, right? Like, can we agree that this is his floor?

If that's the case, Simon Despres would be a

~25 point, 250 hit, 120 block 3rd-pairing Dman who can be fine playing in all situations, but is also fine playing ~15 minutes a game at ES.

What the **** is wrong with that? Like, is that the kind of player you DO NOT WANT?

(and he CAN move up and down the lineup and CAN fill in on the PK and PP)

 

[billybudd]

It doesn't matter.

He would need 7 years or be 27 to be a Group 3 UFA.

OR

He would need to be 25 and have 3 professional seasons but play less than 80 games to be a Group 6 UFA.

He doesn't fit the Group 3 criteria, and he's not 25 and in four seasons he has 150 GP (regular season and playoffs). (In his first three seasons, he had 91 games) So there is no way for him to meet the criteria for Group 6.

He is not undrafted, he was signed, he didn't play in college (Hayes loophole), he doesn't have 10 years playing professionally, and he wasn't grandfathered in under the old CBA.

There isn't any way that he is a UFA.

For me, this needs to be clarified by a Pens/Ducks employee or an agent. The birthday thing is too weird. It's the sort of thing that causes discrepancies between NHLnumbers and sportrak. Either could be right.

 

[Shrimper]

you act like he'll respond or acknowledge it. He'll follow 150 porn bots in retaliation.

You're confusing him with Madden.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I watch them both play, my conclusion is Ben Lovejoy is currently a better player. You do understand you are not the only one with an opinion right? Lovejoy has much less upside but is also more consistent. I also think him being a RH shot plays into the narrative here.

It's ok to disagree.

It's fine to disagree, but to assume he's better than Despres is debatable at best. Which is why it's a bad trade.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

At best, the Pens win the Stanley Cup, Lovejoy is a significant member of the team, and Despres never reaches his ceiling, and it still won't make this trade good value.

Actually, it kind of would. It's just the odds of all those things happening are very low.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's fine to disagree, but to assume he's better than Despres is debatable at best. Which is why it's a bad trade.

He played first pairing on the President Trophy winning team that was one game 7 from making it to the WCF. He is easily the better player right now.

 

[Shrimper]

FWIW, Capgeek lists him as an RFA, if that matters to you

I'm working my way up, I'll be a beat writer for them one day, have no worries!

 

[Greeneye]

Here's my thing. At worst, he is what he is this year, right? Like, can we agree that this is his floor?

If that's the case, Simon Despres would be a

~25 point, 250 hit, 120 block 3rd-pairing Dman who can be fine playing in all situations, but is also fine playing ~15 minutes a game at ES.

What the **** is wrong with that? Like, is that the kind of player you DO NOT WANT?

(and he CAN move up and down the lineup and CAN fill in on the PK and PP)

Like I said earlier I do like him and I would have preferred they kept him. However, I do think Lovejoy is better right now and will be better in the playoffs. I never said I didn't want him, don't take it personally.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'm working my way up, I'll be a beat writer for them one day, have no worries!

We'll be waiting.

 

[IcedCapp]

Like I said earlier I do like him and I would have preferred they kept him. However, I do think Lovejoy is better right now and will be better in the playoffs. I never said I didn't want him, don't take it personally.

I'm not 'taking it personally.' I just don't understand the mindset.

Even if I concede that Lovejoy is a better player RIGHT NOW, I simply refuse to concede that he's so much better that it's the difference between post season success and failure.

I do agree that RHS plays a part in it, but, there again, you're choosing 1) short term over long term and 2) an inferior player over a superior player (Scuderi).

I realize you will disagree with my assessment of Despres. That's fine, I don't take it personally.

 

[66-30-33]

There's no guarantee he'd reach the ceiling we think he has, but he undoubtedly could play as our #4 and not look out of place right now.

I was never against trading Despres, but i wanted him gone in a package for a long term winger, not a 31 year old defensemen with 1 year left on his contract. Hell i would have rather traded him to the Flames for Baertschi if we were just going to give him away.

 

[Shrimper]

We'll be waiting.

I should probably get a partnership on here.

 

[drpepper]

For me, this needs to be clarified by a Pens/Ducks employee or an agent. The birthday thing is too weird. It's the sort of thing that causes discrepancies between NHLnumbers and sportrak. Either could be right.

I am confused what you are having issues with. The Pens are never going to clarify anything, and you will probably hear about the Ducks qualifying him in 2016 when his current contract expires.

To be a UFA, he needs to be 25 or 27. He's turning 24 on July 17. There is absolutely no way a birthday discrepancy makes him a UFA.

Also signing age is only an issue if he has 7 years experience. There is absolutely no way he has 7 years experience.

EDIT:
Despres signed his ELC contract in Oct 2009. He was 18. He had three years of an ELC contract; the first two of which were slide years as he was playing in the Q.

According to the CBA:
Age of Players. As used in this Article, "age," including "First SPC Signing Age," means a Player's age on September 15 of the calendar year in which he signs an SPC, regardless of his actual age on the date he signs such SPC.

Despres's signing age is 18.

 

[DoktorZaius]

I believe Beauchemin, Wisniewski (oh my god, I spelled both those names correctly on the first try), Giodarno, and Kronwall weren't NHLers until their mid-20s.

But that's OK, they're nothings.

Ooooh it was an incredible run of form and then you fell into the Giordano trap. :/

 

[cheesedanish87]

There's no guarantee he'd reach the ceiling we think he has, but he undoubtedly could play as our #4 and not look out of place right now.

Hes been playing on the bottom for most of the year, the last 2 months hes been bad, i don't know what you have seen out of him to think he could be a number 4 when hes been struggling on the bottom pair with sheltered minutes.

 

[Riptide]

To be a UFA, he needs to be 25 or 27. He's turning 24 on July 17. There is absolutely no way a birthday discrepancy makes him a UFA.

Also signing age is only an issue if he has 7 years experience. There is absolutely no way he has 7 years experience.

Agree completely on this. He's at least an RFA for 1 more season after this contract.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I was never against trading Despres, but i wanted him gone in a package for a long term winger, not a 31 year old defensemen with 1 year left on his contract. Hell i would have rather traded him to the Flames for Baertschi if we were just going to give him away.

I just saw Baertschi's nose. Oh my god.....

 

[Waffle Fries]

Hes been playing on the bottom pairing for most of the year, the last 2 months hes been bad, i don't know what you have seen out of him to think he could be a number 4 when hes been struggling on the bottom pair with sheltered minutes.

Letang and Maatta both had awful months last year. Ehrhoff and Martin have had some pretty bad stretches of play this year. Whenever Despres was trusted with bigger minutes, he stepped up and played really well. Why do I think he could be a number four? Because whenever he had to be, he excelled.

Despres' mistakes and periods of bad play were always more heavily scrutinized because the treatment of the last coaching staff put him under the microscope. Despres was the only player who simply wasn't allowed to make mistakes, and that is really unfair to a developing player.

It'll be fun to see what people say when Scuderi's new partner struggles on the bottom pair with protected minutes.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Hes been playing on the bottom for most of the year, the last 2 months hes been bad, i don't know what you have seen out of him to think he could be a number 4 when hes been struggling on the bottom pair with sheltered minutes.

His minutes may have been sheltered, but he was still paired with Rob Scuderi.

 

[66-30-33]

Letang and Maatta both had awful months last year. Ehrhoff and Martin have had some pretty bad stretches of play this year. Whenever Despres was trusted with bigger minutes, he stepped up and played really well. Why do I think he could be a number four? Because whenever he had to be, he excelled.

Despres' mistakes and periods of bad play were always more heavily scrutinized because the treatment of the last coaching staff put him under the microscope. Despres was the only player who simply wasn't allowed to make mistakes, and that is really unfair to a developing player.

It'll be fun to see what people say when Scuderi's new partner struggles on the bottom pair with protected minutes.

Sounds like my job sorta. I'm not allowed talking to anyone but everyone else is allowed to talk to eachother and lots of other ******** like that. Big reason why i hate my job and i'm sure Despres hated it here for reasons like that although he never said he did.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hes been playing on the bottom for most of the year, the last 2 months hes been bad, i don't know what you have seen out of him to think he could be a number 4 when hes been struggling on the bottom pair with sheltered minutes.

Again, how did Scuds struggle and not make it out of the A until he was 26, then it took him another three years from there to find his way into the Kings top four, if guys are done progressing at 23?

I know we aren't using to seeing the normal progression of prospects around these parts, being that this team can't develop any youth whatsoever, but trust me when I say, plenty of young guys struggle before hitting their stride.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I was never against trading Despres, but i wanted him gone in a package for a long term winger, not a 31 year old defensemen with 1 year left on his contract. Hell i would have rather traded him to the Flames for Baertschi if we were just going to give him away.

I didn't want to trade Despres period. However if it was part of a package for a long term winger or even for a forward of a similar status, I wouldn't be mad, I would just be disappointed that we let Despres go. This return is still just beyond comprehension.

 

[roquay]

I personally would have kept Despres as he is far from a finished product but there is no guarantee he will turn into what this board seems to think is a sure thing.

You could say that about any young player. Maatta, Pouliot might not turn into what we think.

Doesn't mean we should trade them.

Despres was moved for a guy who is probably worth a 3rd round pick.

 

[IcedCapp]

Ignoring the talk about his play in the past 2 seasons, didn't THE BEST DMAN EVER, Kris Letang, struggle in his early 20s?!?!?

 

[IcedCapp]

You could say that about any young player. Maatta, Pouliot might not turn into what we think.

Doesn't mean we should trade them.

Despres was moved for a guy who is probably worth a 3rd round pick.

here's where it gets tricky...

Lovejoy's vacuum value may have been a 3rd-round pick, but his value to a team in the playoffs is higher.

With the Wiz trade, the Ducks could afford to punt on a 4-5 guy for a 23-year old with growth to do.

The Penguins couldn't, because they didn't have Martin, Ehrhoff, Letang, Scuderi, Cole, etc...