HF Habs: The Positivity Thread (Part II)...

[Hostile Offer]

Most NHLers do not reach their ceilings, that's a fact. Nothing pessimistic about that. If the majority of players would hit their ceilings, then pretty much every prospect drafted would make the NHL.
I mean, welcome to reality buddy. I guess, it's easier to just paint everyone who isn't pretending like things are all peachy with a brush of pessimism, but it's silly.
Newsflash, the Montreal Canadiens are in a very bleak situation, just because people call it as it is do not make them negative or pessimistic.

There is nothing pessimistic about calling Hudon a 3rd liner.

We are not talking about some prospect who might potentially become something in the next seven years. We are talking about a player who is already an NHLer. I'm not expecting every prospect to reach their ceiling but with a player as far in his development as Hudon I feel pretty comfortable about it.

And yes, it's not looking bright for this team, we've certainly established that. But that doesn't mean there can't be good things happening.

 

[Kriss E]

We are not talking about some prospect who might potentially become something in the next seven years. We are talking about a player who is already an NHLer. I'm not expecting every prospect to reach their ceiling but with a player as far in his development as Hudon I feel pretty comfortable about it.

And yes, it's not looking bright for this team, we've certainly established that. But that doesn't mean there can't be good things happening.

We are talking about a 24yo player, drafted 5th overall, with no defining special skill but more of a well rounded type, who finished his rookie season putting up 30pts. That was a good season for him.
Is he going to becoming that strong top 6 guy? I don't see it and I explained why. I don't think he's great at anything, but more so decent at everything.
You came back claiming he has excellent hands, something I don't even say of Drouin who is undoubtedly a better playmaker. That shows me you're not being very objective here, but hey, that's fine.
I have more an issue with you claiming I'm a pessimist because I don't want to jump on your rather unrealistic ceiling for Drouin.

For the record, I didn't even say he wasn't going to be good. I just don't think he'll be as good as you claimed, but I believe he can be a very good player in his role still.
Nothing pessimistic about that.

 

[Scriptor]

You guys are allowed to disagree but, I just want to point out that 35-45 points is 2nd line material, from average 2nd line to decent 2nd line production in today's NHL. If you see Hudon as a 35-45 point producer, he's a 2nd liner in the modern NHL.

There are 165 forwards before you hit the 36-point total for a forward.

There are 145 forwards before you hit the 40-point mark

There are 125 forwards before you reach the 45-point mark.

There are 186 forwards as 2nd liners in the league.

Hudon being a bottom 6 player in that range is just not right.

There are 209 players before we hit the 30-point mark, Hudon's totals from last year. The rookie player produced like a borderline top-6 forward last year (7th forward across the league) while playing bottom-6 minutes and not getting PP assignments of a top-6 player.

To think that Hudon is incapable of adding a measly 6 points to his production level while playing top-6 minutes with top-6 team-mates would be a difficult case to make, IMO.

Consistently given those choice minutes and assignments, I believe it would be a cinch for him to get 40 points like Danault did playing better minutes when Radulov was here. I could see him get between 45-50 points, really, if relied upon offensively as a 2nd line forward.

His skating is a bit of a concern, but his defensive game would allow him to keep getting those minutes, IMO. His hockey IQ would also allow him to benefit offensively through his sense of anticipation.

Hudon is not an all-star -- far from it -- because he lacks breakaway speed and a rifle for a shot, but he's a smart player that reads the play well and that's not afraid to sacrifice himself to allow a play to materialize. His shot isn't a howitzer, but it's good from in closer and he isn't a peripheral player that is afraid of traffic either. That's all to his advantage, offensively.

IMO, Hudon does have 2nd line upside that is, for him, easily attainable if given 2nd line minutes with 2nd line line mates and more PP time. However, I see him as a player with a future role as an elite 3rd liner that can provide crucial secondary scoring and not cost you defensively, while being able to move up adequately in the lineup in case of injury.

If Danault, with his speed, had the rest of Hudon's skills, he'd produce 50-55 points as a top-6, shutdown C. It's just too bad we can't merge the two players together.

 

[montreal]

Hudon has 2nd line upside but has always been limited by his lack of physical tools, speed, skating, size and strength. There was never an issue of skill or smarts cause he's got plenty of both. What's impressive to me is how he turned his game from being more of a playmaker to also being a heck of a sniper as his wrist shot is lethal. But we don't know what he's going to do in the NHL as imo he could easily of had 40 or so points last year if healthy and a little more luck as he created the chances but came up just short many times. Now maybe that means he never gets there but he was on pace for 34.44 pts last year so that's just about 35 pts and while he's 24 now there's nothing that says he can't get better over the next few years.

I think he needs to get quicker first and foremost, for a smaller player he's got to have more speed. Plus it will depend on how he's used, if he's put on a line with Pleks, then I don't expect much in the way of offense but if he gets a bigger role he'll make things happen out there. If we had a coach and management that was smart, this is a perfect time over the next 2 or so years to play the crap out of the youth like Hudon, Lehkonen, DLR, Domi, Scherbak to see what we have.

 

[Scriptor]

Hudon has 2nd line upside but has always been limited by his lack of physical tools, speed, skating, size and strength. There was never an issue of skill or smarts cause he's got plenty of both. What's impressive to me is how he turned his game from being more of a playmaker to also being a heck of a sniper as his wrist shot is lethal. But we don't know what he's going to do in the NHL as imo he could easily of had 40 or so points last year if healthy and a little more luck as he created the chances but came up just short many times. Now maybe that means he never gets there but he was on pace for 34.44 pts last year so that's just about 35 pts and while he's 24 now there's nothing that says he can't get better over the next few years.

I think he needs to get quicker first and foremost, for a smaller player he's got to have more speed. Plus it will depend on how he's used, if he's put on a line with Pleks, then I don't expect much in the way of offense but if he gets a bigger role he'll make things happen out there. If we had a coach and management that was smart, this is a perfect time over the next 2 or so years to play the crap out of the youth like Hudon, Lehkonen, DLR, Domi, Scherbak to see what we have.

I agree. Nobody is expecting anything (#lowered expectations), so take advantage of the goodwill (or ill will) and do exactly as you suggested.

 

[Peanut]

I'm positive that if Patches does play for us he has a bounce back year and drives up his value before the trade deadline

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You guys are allowed to disagree but, I just want to point out that 35-45 points is 2nd line material, from average 2nd line to decent 2nd line production in today's NHL. If you see Hudon as a 35-45 point producer, he's a 2nd liner in the modern NHL.

There are 165 forwards before you hit the 36-point total for a forward.

There are 145 forwards before you hit the 40-point mark

There are 125 forwards before you reach the 45-point mark.

There are 186 forwards as 2nd liners in the league.

Hudon being a bottom 6 player in that range is just not right.

There are 209 players before we hit the 30-point mark, Hudon's totals from last year. The rookie player produced like a borderline top-6 forward last year (7th forward across the league) while playing bottom-6 minutes and not getting PP assignments of a top-6 player.

To think that Hudon is incapable of adding a measly 6 points to his production level while playing top-6 minutes with top-6 team-mates would be a difficult case to make, IMO.

Consistently given those choice minutes and assignments, I believe it would be a cinch for him to get 40 points like Danault did playing better minutes when Radulov was here. I could see him get between 45-50 points, really, if relied upon offensively as a 2nd line forward.

His skating is a bit of a concern, but his defensive game would allow him to keep getting those minutes, IMO. His hockey IQ would also allow him to benefit offensively through his sense of anticipation.

Hudon is not an all-star -- far from it -- because he lacks breakaway speed and a rifle for a shot, but he's a smart player that reads the play well and that's not afraid to sacrifice himself to allow a play to materialize. His shot isn't a howitzer, but it's good from in closer and he isn't a peripheral player that is afraid of traffic either. That's all to his advantage, offensively.

IMO, Hudon does have 2nd line upside that is, for him, easily attainable if given 2nd line minutes with 2nd line line mates and more PP time. However, I see him as a player with a future role as an elite 3rd liner that can provide crucial secondary scoring and not cost you defensively, while being able to move up adequately in the lineup in case of injury.

If Danault, with his speed, had the rest of Hudon's skills, he'd produce 50-55 points as a top-6, shutdown C. It's just too bad we can't merge the two players together.

That's a good (and positive) post about Hudon and Danault. I think Hudon have to become Pleks' replacement : 2nd center before 30, 3rd center after 30. On a short term he must have offensive wingers like Sherbak or Lehkonen, maybe Domi can be the perfect fit for him but Dom will be paired with Drouin or Danault.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I'm positive that if Patches does play for us he has a bounce back year and drives up his value before the trade deadline

It's Bergevin who is mad with Paccio since that incident in the plane, Paccio told Bergevin to cool down and since that Bergevin hates Paccio and doesn't want to discuss new contract, just tryes to trade him for anything. You know, if Bergevin is fired, Paccio can stay with us. But what about the fans? I think a good season can erase a bad one. Paccio will have to become good again to have a good new contract. There is tons of pressure on him this year.

 

[Belial]

Time for some positivity around here!

This guy pretty much resumes my feelings about this team going into the next season:



Go Habs Go!

 

[peate]

Self-propaganda at its finest. Don't give up.

 

[Laurentide]

Disagree. I think his ceiling is 3rd liner.

And it's a vaulted ceiling about 20 feet high. He can't just reach above his head and touch it like he's in a basement suite or something.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Disagree. I think his ceiling is 3rd liner.

I'm 50/50 on Hudon as well. He needs to put up more production if he is part of my future. His 1st season was decent but he is still considered a prospect at age 24. Very important year for him. Reminds me of Ghetto... Showed promise but disappointed in his 2nd full season. I think Hudon is a better player so I hope he can be the player he thinks he can be. His vision and shot is actually pretty good.

 

[Belial]

Self-propaganda at its finest. Don't give up.

It's actually not me... Can you imagine? Apparently, there are other Habs cheerleaders out there...

 

[peate]

It's actually not me... Can you imagine? Apparently, there are other Habs cheerleaders out there...

I know, I'm an old one. Cheerleader that is, just like you. A bit more realist maybe, but not so different.
But it did cross my mind that it could be you.

 

[CauZuki]

Time for some positivity around here!

This guy pretty much resumes my feelings about this team going into the next season:



Go Habs Go!

I didn't know you made youtube vids .

 

[Belial]

I know, I'm an old one. Cheerleader that is, just like you. A bit more realist maybe, but not so different.
But it did cross my mind that it could be you.

I didn't know you made youtube vids .

Thank you guys, it's really flattering but I'm not that eloquent in English sadly...

 

[NobleSix]

Time for some positivity around here!

This guy pretty much resumes my feelings about this team going into the next season:



Go Habs Go!

This is definitely you Belial.

(Edit: Nevermind, he said he was a big fan of Galchenyuk. Can't possibly be you, unless it was an intentional red herring)

 

[76]

Time for some positivity around here!

This guy pretty much resumes my feelings about this team going into the next season:



Go Habs Go!

Good find and thanks for sharing. Pretty much my feelings as well.
I love how this team is so underrated.
Go Habs Go!

 

[CauZuki]

Good find and thanks for sharing. Pretty much my feelings as well.
I love how this team is so underrated.
Go Habs Go!

We are so awesome!!! Woot woot!!!

You get low standards! & You get low standards!! Everyone gets low standards!!!!

 

[CHwest]

Time for some positivity around here!

This guy pretty much resumes my feelings about this team going into the next season:



Go Habs Go!

Ha ha, Drouin is going to be a legitemate superstar. What a dweeb.

 

[groovejuice]

Ha ha, Drouin is going to be a legitemate superstar. What a dweeb.

At centre no less.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Ha ha, Drouin is going to be a legitemate superstar. What a dweeb.

Remember, we'll be praising Bergevin in 8 years from now

 

[CauZuki]

When the conditions for barely making the playoffs is everyone having a career year , you know any argument based on that premise is ridiculous. It's akin to saying maybe I'll get that promotion , if all my colleagues quit or lack interest in moving up the company ladder and no outside candidates are considered...
This kind of thinking rarely ends up being healthy for anyone involved.

It all boils down to looking at the top teams and seeing that we have nearly nothing in common. Especially considering the following:

- No budding superstars , that can produce at amazing rates as young as 18/19 (Matthews/Eichel/Laine/Barzal just to name a few)
- No elite players under 27 years of age (arguably no elite players at all).
- No young PMD with top2 potential (I like Mete/Juulsen but let's get real).
- Team's best player is in nets (this is rarely a good sign).

I don't see the value in finding optimism where there shouldn't be, it just leads to accepting mediocrity. I also don't see how being average fits in with such a storied franchise with a nearly unlimited budget. These results shouldn't be acceptable and finding the best talent out there should be the only consideration.

 

[scrubadam]

When the conditions for barely making the playoffs is everyone having a career year , you know any argument based on that premise is ridiculous. It's akin to saying maybe I'll get that promotion , if all my colleagues quit or lack interest in moving up the company ladder and no outside candidates are considered...
This kind of thinking rarely ends up being healthy for anyone involved.

It all boils down to looking at the top teams and seeing that we have nearly nothing in common. Especially considering the following:

- No budding superstars , that can produce at amazing rates as young as 18/19 (Matthews/Eichel/Laine/Barzal just to name a few)
- No elite players under 27 years of age (arguably no elite players at all).
- No young PMD with top2 potential (I like Mete/Juulsen but let's get real).
- Team's best player is in nets (this is rarely a good sign).

I don't see the value in finding optimism where there shouldn't be, it just leads to accepting mediocrity. I also don't see how being average fits in with such a storied franchise with a nearly unlimited budget. These results shouldn't be acceptable and finding the best talent out there should be the only consideration.

Its the positivity thread.

Some of us see some good young players that are at that age where they could break out or bust and are hoping that they break out.

Everyone knows this team is going to be bad this year but we can still cheer on the players to have good season. Some guys can even have career years and it would still not be enough, and with loto luck we are drafting top 3 anyways.

I hope everyone 25 and under has a good season on this team this year. Even with that the team should still get a good draft pick.

 

[groovejuice]

Its the positivity thread.

Some of us see some good young players that are at that age where they could break out or bust and are hoping that they break out.

Everyone knows this team is going to be bad this year but we can still cheer on the players to have good season. Some guys can even have career years and it would still not be enough, and with loto luck we are drafting top 3 anyways.

I hope everyone 25 and under has a good season on this team this year. Even with that the team should still get a good draft pick.

The realistic things to hope for are no serious injuries to the players at all levels, and that our prospects receive professional development and improve their games and skills accordingly.