OT: The Pittsburgher Thread - Good JuJu comes at a high price

[cookthebooks]

ben also loves to self mythologize with his in game injury recoveries etc so i would take anything he says about preparation with a grain of salt

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm not the biggest fan of Tomlin, and I don't find Ben likable, in general, but Tomlin did a fantastic job last season, and Ben's value was clearly shown.

Ben, much like Mario, is a guy who has natural talent. I saw a piece that Chris Simms did with Ben and Chris was trying to football junkie out with him, asking him about drills he does in the offseason and what he does to work out, and Ben basically said, "yeah, I just take a break." Then he asks him about his pregame routine and touching the balls and things like that and Ben says, "the first time I touch a ball is the first snap." He is just so natural at being a QB that he doesn't have to try.

I’m sure we can all agree that working harder would have helped both Lemieux and Roth be greater.

In Roth’s case, it would have meant better stats I suppose, but Tomlin was always going to be a major issue that held him back, so it’s almost a moot point.

If Mario worked harder and didn’t let his ego get in the way... imagine what a hard working Lemieux and Bowman would have done to the league.

Unfortunately Mario’s ego wasn’t like Yzerman.

ben also loves to self mythologize with his in game injury recoveries etc so i would take anything he says about preparation with a grain of salt

Bradshaw said he would fake injuries and pretend to be hurt a lot so he could rally the troops.

So it’s not just Roth that is known for drama.

Hell, I hope their next franchise guy, if they ever find another one, is dramatic like that to.

It seemed to work to the tune of six SBs.

 

[Shockmaster]

Bradshaw said he would fake injuries and pretend to be hurt a lot so he could rally the troops.

So it’s not just Roth that is known for drama.

Hell, I hope their next franchise guy, if they ever find another one, is dramatic like that to.

It seemed to work to the tune of six SBs.

It's hardly just Steelers QBs. Look how often Brady was on NE's injury reports.

 

[Bingo71]

I just gotta laugh at the “fat ass Ben” comments...

When he first came into the league he was a mobile guy for his size, and strong to be able to shed off tacklers like he did. But that style resulted in him taking a beating as well. Just like any QB, he has evolved throughout his career into more of a pocket passer because he can’t do the things that he did 15 years ago. Brady was never a scrambler and rarely ever gets hit, let alone take a beating like Ben.

I think so many people let their disdain for Ben the man to translate over to criticizing him on the field. I mean, people are acting like Ben shows up to even camp at 3 bills like Jamarcus Russell or something. They criticize him for the beard and sweats on the sideline.

Is Ben cut and ripped? No. Does he need to be? According to some, yes. Apparently you have to look like a Greek god in order to perform on the football field...

It’s just funny though because many were thrilled when Ben went down last year and were ready to “move on” to the “new era” and then we saw the what that meant...

Anybody remember Brady Quinn or even Tebow? Looked like they belonged on the cover of Muscle and Fitness magazine but couldn’t throw the football to save their asses...

 

[OnMyOwn]

Can you read the field, call plays and put the ball where it needs to be? He’s proven he can do all 3 extremely well for 15 years. Let alone his scrambling and avoiding sacks, throwing outside of the pocket, etc.

He was a shitty dude when he was young, but tons of these guys are. That’s not how you should judge a pro athlete. They’re paid to perform.

 

[Shockmaster]

I just gotta laugh at the “fat ass Ben” comments...

When he first came into the league he was a mobile guy for his size, and strong to be able to shed off tacklers like he did. But that style resulted in him taking a beating as well. Just like any QB, he has evolved throughout his career into more of a pocket passer because he can’t do the things that he did 15 years ago. Brady was never a scrambler and rarely ever gets hit, let alone take a beating like Ben.

I think so many people let their disdain for Ben the man to translate over to criticizing him on the field. I mean, people are acting like Ben shows up to even camp at 3 bills like Jamarcus Russell or something. They criticize him for the beard and sweats on the sideline.

Is Ben cut and ripped? No. Does he need to be? According to some, yes. Apparently you have to look like a Greek god in order to perform on the football field...

It’s just funny though because many were thrilled when Ben went down last year and were ready to “move on” to the “new era” and then we saw the what that meant...

Anybody remember Brady Quinn or even Tebow? Looked like they belonged on the cover of Muscle and Fitness magazine but couldn’t throw the football to save their asses...

The Ben-bashing in the nation media has gone beyond sad, it's just kind of creepy and obsessive now. I think it has to be more than just the perception Ben was/is a jerk, because so is Aaron Rodgers and he never gets criticized to this degree. They put so much energy in 2019 into making AB looking like a poor, mistreated victim of Ben's ego and selfishness. Then AB goes to Oakland and shows the world his ass, making every Ben-hater in the nation media look like an abject moron. Now they're in "don't look over there, look over here" mode.

 

[Bingo71]

This whole “Ben’s an out of shape slob” story has been going on for awhile now and I just laugh.

Is he still 240? No. But he’s far from a “fat slob”. Does he drink seaweed shakes every morning and do an insane offseason workout regimen? No. But he’s far from out of shape and unable to perform.

I constantly see comparisons to Brady and how Tom Terrific always seems to be healthy and never get hurt and it MUST be because of his smoothies and personal trainer and dietician. Uh, no, it’s more the fact that he is in a system that has him get rid of the ball quickly and not take hits that would get him injured. His entire career has been like that while Ben has taken a beating since year one (a lot of that is admittedly on him).

Brady rarely ever got hit, Peyton rarely ever got hit, Brees hardly ever gets hit. Are these guys staying healthy simply because they “take care of themselves” or is it because they don’t take much abuse throughout their careers? Look at all the love Rodgers gets and yet he is oft injured. He’s rather small for a QB and his scrambling style opens him up to abuse and his body suffers for it. But you don’t hear the media dumping on Discount Double Check for it, do ya?

Did Ben’s elbow take a shit last year because he’s a “fat slob”? Would he have been alright if he just drank a few more smoothies and ate some kale chips????

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The Ben-bashing in the nation media has gone beyond sad, it's just kind of creepy and obsessive now. I think it has to be more than just the perception Ben was/is a jerk, because so is Aaron Rodgers and he never gets criticized to this degree. They put so much energy in 2019 into making AB looking like a poor, mistreated victim of Ben's ego and selfishness. Then AB goes to Oakland and shows the world his ass, making every Ben-hater in the nation media look like an abject moron. Now they're in "don't look over there, look over here" mode.

Again I’m not a huge Roth fan or anything, but I took great joy in watching the morons stupid enough to side with AB, have to eat their own shit.

This whole “Ben’s an out of shape slob” story has been going on for awhile now and I just laugh.

Is he still 240? No. But he’s far from a “fat slob”. Does he drink seaweed shakes every morning and do an insane offseason workout regimen? No. But he’s far from out of shape and unable to perform.

I constantly see comparisons to Brady and how Tom Terrific always seems to be healthy and never get hurt and it MUST be because of his smoothies and personal trainer and dietician. Uh, no, it’s more the fact that he is in a system that has him get rid of the ball quickly and not take hits that would get him injured. His entire career has been like that while Ben has taken a beating since year one (a lot of that is admittedly on him).

Brady rarely ever got hit, Peyton rarely ever got hit, Brees hardly ever gets hit. Are these guys staying healthy simply because they “take care of themselves” or is it because they don’t take much abuse throughout their careers? Look at all the love Rodgers gets and yet he is oft injured. He’s rather small for a QB and his scrambling style opens him up to abuse and his body suffers for it. But you don’t hear the media dumping on Discount Double Check for it, do ya?

Did Ben’s elbow take a shit last year because he’s a “fat slob”? Would he have been alright if he just drank a few more smoothies and ate some kale chips????

Manning’s neck got f***ed and he trained hard.

The NFL wrecks you, so what do people expect?

Roth never got babied by the refs like Manning and Brady, yet he just threw for the most yards and TD in his career at 36.

His talent has always been under appreciated by the national media and Steeler nation... no clue why... I’d say because he’s a known jerk, but so is Rodgers and he has less SBs...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't deny Ben's talent. I think he's a piece of shit, but I won't deny he's a talented QB.

 

[Shockmaster]

Again I’m not a huge Roth fan or anything, but I took great joy in watching the morons stupid enough to side with AB, have to eat their own shit.



Manning’s neck got f***ed and he trained hard.

The NFL wrecks you, so what do people expect?

Roth never got babied by the refs like Manning and Brady, yet he just threw for the most yards and TD in his career at 36.

His talent has always been under appreciated by the national media and Steeler nation... no clue why... I’d say because he’s a known jerk, but so is Rodgers and he has less SBs...

The locals don't seem to appreciate HoF caliber QBs until they're gone. They want three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust football and try to win every game 2-0.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The locals don't seem to appreciate HoF caliber QBs until they're gone. They want three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust football and try to win every game 2-0.

True. I wasn’t around for Bradshaw but heard the fans booed him, called him stupid and ‘Lil Abner, etc.

If you can’t appreciate two guys that delivered six SBs, not sure what else the fans want...

Maybe a guy that wins seven in a row and rescues puppies on the side?

I’m sure Browns and Bengals fans would have loved to have either one, let alone both.

 

[Al Smith]

True. I wasn’t around for Bradshaw but heard the fans booed him, called him stupid and ‘Lil Abner, etc.

If you can’t appreciate two guys that delivered six SBs, not sure what else the fans want...

Maybe a guy that wins seven in a row and rescues puppies on the side?

I’m sure Browns and Bengals fans would have loved to have either one, let alone both.

We'd a won 10 SBs if we just run more traps 'n at.

 

[Shockmaster]

We'd a won 10 SBs if we just run more traps 'n at.

Git a fullback in there and paund dat ball in there n'at!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the issue is people think you have to appreciate the player and the person. When really, majority respect the player and not the person and just actively ignore the latter for the most part unless it's a slow news day or expectations aren't met.

Antonio Brown is one of those types too, to a crazier degree. Fantastic WR. Absolutely a terrible person. But the Ravens will sign him and he'll be back to being a fantastic WR and a team will actively try to ignore his crap or hide it like his time with us.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Git a fullback in there and paund dat ball in there n'at!

Just wait until the yinzers start clamoring for Watt to get more carries, haha.

 

[Bingo71]

I don't deny Ben's talent. I think he's a piece of shit, but I won't deny he's a talented QB.

Well thanks for admitting that your “fat ass” attacks on him or due to the fact that you think he’s a piece of shit and not what he accomplishes on the football field.

Plenty of fit and in shape pieces of shit out there as well...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well thanks for admitting that your “fat ass” attacks on him or due to the fact that you think he’s a piece of shit and not what he accomplishes on the football field.

Plenty of fit and in shape pieces of shit out there as well...

Hit a nerve?

There's more than enough facts out there for my disdain for Ben the person off the field to be justified, also being called a piece of shit or whatever I want to call his fat ass is justifiable imo, as well.

Stuff he's done on the field, great.

 

[EvGeno]

I am liking the sports replays in general, since there’s nothing else on...however, WHY is it ALWAYS the freaking Patriots? Aren’t we forced to watch them enough during the season (maybe that will finally stop now)? For every one game shown with other teams, there are three with them...NFL Network had one this afternoon from 2017 that NE won by 16!! Seriously, there aren’t any other games that were closer or more exciting that they could have picked?

I hope NE and TB are both awful this season, if there is one.

 

[Bingo71]

Hit a nerve?

There's more than enough facts out there for my disdain for Ben the person off the field to be justified, also being called a piece of shit or whatever I want to call his fat ass is justifiable imo, as well.

Stuff he's done on the field, great.

No nerve here. You were insinuating somehow that Ben being a “fat ass wanker” was affecting his play on the field and the reason the Steelers have been struggling, mocking him for saying that he was in the best shape he’s been in 2 years.

You hate the guy for being a piece of shit off the field and I got it, but then you are trying to transfer that hatred to his on the field play and conditioning which just seems silly. You do however, correctly point to Tomlin as being the issue, not Ben’s “fat ass”...

 

[ColePens]

Can we please stop pissing around about Ben's weight. Stop the pissing match and move on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Can we please stop pissing around about Ben's weight. Stop the pissing match and move on.

Is Phil Kessel fair game mate?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No nerve here. You were insinuating somehow that Ben being a “fat ass wanker” was affecting his play on the field and the reason the Steelers have been struggling, mocking him for saying that he was in the best shape he’s been in 2 years.

You hate the guy for being a piece of shit off the field and I got it, but then you are trying to transfer that hatred to his on the field play and conditioning which just seems silly. You do however, correctly point to Tomlin as being the issue, not Ben’s “fat ass”...

I just inferred with his style of play, some conditioning would have helped. That was all there was to it. Players adapt. We see it all the time. Some guys realize being too heavy wasn't the right move as the game changed. We see it in the NHL and other leagues.

NBA even had a time where the centers were just massive in the stomach. To go after the likes of the Shaqs.

I wasn't stating he needed to be jacked or eat baby fetuses like Tom Brady.

Sorry @ColePens thats the last of that. Go Stillers?!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

PFF has DJ and Bush as top second year breakout candidates:

Diontae Johnson had 680 receiving yards and five touchdowns as a third-round rookie last year, so you could make the case that he’s already broken out. But when you consider what the quarterback situation was like in Pittsburgh with no Ben Roethlisberger, you will soon appreciate how much more there is to come. Johnson is an extremely slick route-runner and was regularly open only to see the ball miss him completely. He snagged 91% of the catchable targets thrown his way and broke 18 tackles after the catch, second among all rookies. Mason Rudolph (53.0) and Devlin “Duck” Hodges (45.8) each posted lowly PFF grades, so if Johnson gets a full season of quality passing play from a healthy Roethlisberger, we could see him evolve into one of the better receivers in the game.

Again, depending on how you measure these things, you may believe Devin Bush has already hit the ground running in the NFL. He led all rookie linebackers with 84 solo tackles and 22 assists (by PFF’s more accurate, double-checked count), but his overall grade was just 62.9. This is in large part due to the onerous responsibilities the Steelers place on their linebackers, which can expose them to consistently tough situations. Bush acclimated well in his first year, and so well, in fact, that with a full year in the system, he could kick on and look like one of the best in the league in 2020. Bush surrendered five touchdowns in coverage, two more than any other rookie linebacker, and was also penalized twice as much as any other first-year linebacker. But the plays he did make suggest he could develop into something special, maybe as soon as Year 2.

 

[Bingo71]

I just inferred with his style of play, some conditioning would have helped. That was all there was to it. Players adapt. We see it all the time. Some guys realize being too heavy wasn't the right move as the game changed. We see it in the NHL and other leagues.

NBA even had a time where the centers were just massive in the stomach. To go after the likes of the Shaqs.

I wasn't stating he needed to be jacked or eat baby fetuses like Tom Brady.

Sorry @ColePens thats the last of that. Go Stillers?!

Fair enough, but Ben HAS adapted from the style that he played when he first came into the league. He is now more of a traditional pocket passer who only scrambles when he has to.

I have no doubts that he could have been in better shape and that it might have translated to less injuries, etc. But his elbow blowing apart wasn’t because he wasn’t in shape...

Anyway, cheerio!

 

[JTG]

I’m sure we can all agree that working harder would have helped both Lemieux and Roth be greater.

In Roth’s case, it would have meant better stats I suppose, but Tomlin was always going to be a major issue that held him back, so it’s almost a moot point.

If Mario worked harder and didn’t let his ego get in the way... imagine what a hard working Lemieux and Bowman would have done to the league.

Unfortunately Mario’s ego wasn’t like Yzerman.

Statistically with Ben, had he worked harder, you may have seen him with more rushing stats. I really can't see much more coming from him if he was a uber-workout warrior. He has one of the strongest arms in the league. He's one of the hardest QB's to bring down. The elbow injury would have happened regardless...maybe even sooner if he was a workout warrior.

I am a gigantic proponent of how Phil Kessel and Ben Roethlisberger go about their business, if the player has the skillset. You have these workout warriors who are as fragile as they come because the guys are constantly breaking their bodies down before the season even starts (Letang, Crosby). Step back...take a minute to let the body have a minute to recharge. In the case of both Ben and Phil, breaking down their bodies wouldn't have done much good. Phil probably could have had better cardiovascular fitness, but I never sat and thought to myself, "boy look at Ben sucking wind." I think he has God given ability and doesn't have to try at all. It's good work if you can get it.

Where this theory of mine ends is with Mario. Mario could have absolutely used more time beefing up and gaining strength. A majority of his back issues would have probably been rectified if he were stronger and there were a ton of articles written about this. Mario was already an ox to handle because he was just huge by genetics. He was 230, but he probably could have been a much stronger 215 and saved his body a bit if he tried a little harder off the ice. Imagine not working out, you then go out and have to carry a 200+ lb man on your back every night.