OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Clock Management? Pfffft. We got this.

[bambamcam4ever]

@ColePens, I think you're wrong about clock management THIS TIME.

1. Why didn't the call timeout before the 2 minute warning? The one successful play the Jags had all half was faking the handoff, sucking the D in, and hitting Fournette out of the backfield. Nice, safe play. IF you call timeout before the 2 minute warning, there's zero risk to the Jags calling that play, since the TV timeout is coming whether it's complete or not. BUT, if you wait until the 2 minute warning, then the Jags have an incentive to run (forcing the Steelers to use timeouts). I 100% knew that's what Marrone would do. He was going to play the odds and trust the D instead of letting Bortles throw (like the previous drive, when he was incomplete on 3rd and the clock stopped).

2. Why didn't the Steelers run after the spike inside the 3? Say the run and don't make it. You have to use the timeout. About 12-15 seconds left. The OL has been **** all day. What happens if the rush gets through quickly? A bad throw? A sack before a throw away? If that happens, it's game over. No, I get your argument here, as I told @ImporterExporter, but calling what Tomlin did there bad clock management isn't exactly right.

BTW, YOU definitely know that I think Tomlin is a ******* moron (and of course the pride and joy of The Andy Reid School for Advanced Clock Management Studies).

Also, if they run it on the first play and call a TO, Jacksonville knows the Steelers have to pass it on their remaining downs since another stopped run would end the game.

 

[Pens x]

Conner and Ben were not good today. I’m not just talking about stats - Conner tried to single handedly lose the game on that last drive several times.

 

[Brandinho]

During the first half, while the board was doing its 'replaced Ben with Dobbs and all will be well' yinzer schtick, I had the temerity to mention that the game planning for this one was absolute crap.

Not being ready for the Jags to try to run the ball down the defense's throats?

Not being ready for the hard 4 man rush, press coverage?

I mean, just one example I mentioned going back to last year. AB struggles to get off press coverage against big, athletic corners. SO, why not put him in motion more, so he can get cleaner releases? Or isolate him in crossing routes, like they finally did on that last catch on the game winning drive?

I mean, I get that Ben was pure, unadulterated **** for 3 quarters, but how can they not be ready for things like these?

On the bright side, Marrone got everything wrong too. Tomlin can only hurt us so much when the guy on the other sideline is even dumber. God bless the Jags' ownership for shackling all of that talent to Doug Marrone. Shame there aren't more of him around.

 

[Bingo71]

On the bright side, Marrone got everything wrong too. Tomlin can only hurt us so much when the guy on the other sideline is even dumber. God bless the Jags' ownership for shackling all of that talent to Doug Marrone. Shame there aren't more of him around.

If Marrone has a QB, that Jags team would be quite a bit better.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Hargrave with 5 sacks now. Glad they are finally using him right in his 3rd year. Letting him get after the QB. And it hasnt messed with his ability to stop the run. Even deflected a pass.

Davis and Hargrave are saving that 2016 class..with Burns struggling right now. They still have a full year to figure things out with him. And Coty hasnt been exposed the last two games because those teams dont have legit #2 WRs. But the Broncos do with Sutton...whos way bigger than Coty and would abuse him. If they decide to switch..Sanders will do the same.

I would have let Burns play in this game and get some confidence back(Bortles cant throw). Especially with how they were using Coty. Up in the box to stop the run. Burns may get beat deep but hes way stronger than Coty and doesnt get pushed back like he does. More likely to make a play(has a FF and safety this year). This was the time to do it. They think they are fine with Sensabaugh but just wait til we face teams with solid WRs.

I like our D as a group right now...besides Coty. We need the Burns of last two years and we are in good shape. But it wont happen this year. They've given up on him. I get it..did himself no favors...but let him actually start and play full time instead of what they did early on only to make things worse. That experiment failed.

Anyway this was the perfect game to get him back in there. If they think Sensabaugh is gonna be enough for us against the better offfenses..theyre crazy.

Burns never got a legit chance with this current D group(meaning how they are playing now).

 

[Rossi Rat]

Conner and Ben were not good today. I’m not just talking about stats - Conner tried to single handedly lose the game on that last drive several times.

Conner terrible by every sense of the imagination.

The guy has had a good year overall, but let’s not crown him just yet. Bell has had numerous great seasons. Can Conner consistently do the same?

 

[Brandinho]

If Marrone has a QB, that Jags team would be quite a bit better.

Replacing Marrone would do more for that team than replacing Bortles.

Bortles has actually been pretty solid this year. The only bad game he had was when he was forced to throw 61 times against KC. Marrone's stink is on every game that team plays, even when Bortles has been good.

 

[Brandinho]

Conner terrible by every sense of the imagination.

The guy has had a good year overall, but let’s not crown him just yet. Bell has had numerous great seasons. Can Conner consistently do the same?

The irony of you saying that we shouldn't "crown" Conner when you've been sucking off Barkley left, right and center all year long is too much for me.

Conner was awful today. Barkley has been awful in half of the games that he's played, but Conner's the one who we need to show restraint with? Alright.

I'm just happy we're getting this kind of production from a third round pick instead of being stupid enough to waste the 2nd overall pick on a fungible position.

 

[Bingo71]

Replacing Marrone would do more for that team than replacing Bortles.

Bortles has actually been pretty solid this year. The only bad game he had was when he was forced to throw 61 times against KC. Marrone's stink is on every game that team plays, even when Bortles has been good.

He les that team to the AFC championship last year and beat the Pats this year.

I’m not talking him up as if he’s a great coach but having a solid QB that can lead a dynamic, double threat offense would do the team wonders. You saw how bad Bortles looked when he dropped back today...

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Mack is unreal. Single handedly turns games around for the Bears. We had that in Shazier. And while Ive been saying our D is getting better each week we really need to draft that ILB who can come close to being Shazier. This next draft its Mack Wilson and Devin White. Trade up. After seeing what Mack is doing for the Bears...they have to know its worth it.

And having that player to go with Watt(who hasnt even reached his potential yet) and others? Defense will be back to being one of the best. Yeah we get sacks and are holding teams to field goals. But lacking that true playmaker who can do it all. Watt is close but Shazier would create a fumble or pick the ball off when we needed it most. Its only Watt's second season so who knows..maybe he will be on that tier of his brother and Mack eventually, but still need that guy in the middle of the field when it comes to our scheme.

 

[Brandinho]

He les that team to the AFC championship last year and beat the Pats this year.

I’m not talking him up as if he’s a great coach but having a solid QB that can lead a dynamic, double threat offense would do the team wonders. You saw how bad Bortles looked when he dropped back today...

Bortles is a solid QB, though. The stats don't lie. He's solid. He's not more than solid, he leaves things to be desired, absolutely, but people act like he's barely hanging on to an NFL job. If you want to replace Bortles, you're either spending a high draft pick or paying somebody a lot of money in free agency. That's pretty clearly one of the next steps that the Jags need to make if they want to get over the hump, but Blake Bortles is not the reason that team is 3-7.

 

[Rossi Rat]

The irony of you saying that we shouldn't "crown" Conner when you've been sucking off Barkley left, right and center all year long is too much for me.

Conner was awful today. Barkley has been awful in half of the games that he's played, but Conner's the one who we need to show restraint with? Alright.

I'm just happy we're getting this kind of production from a third round pick instead of being stupid enough to waste the 2nd overall pick on a fungible position.

Barkley is working behind a bottom 5 line. Conner behind, at the very least, a top 5 line.

Conner is very good and on pace for a great year, but I hope he can stay healthy. Barkley is younger, doesn’t have the injury history Conner has, and has an explosive style that is better in this day and age for longevity’s sake compared to Conner’s bruiser style.

A big part of the issue is even though Barkley has to live under the pressure of being such a high draft pick, he’s one of the few lone bright spots on that team. Conner has to live under the pressure of being surrounded by stars and being the replacement to arguably the best RB in Steelers history. Was watching highlights from the Steelers’ playoff run in ‘16. Simply unreal how smooth Bell was. I hope Conner can be the same, but it’s a big reach.

 

[Brandinho]

Barkley is working behind a bottom 5 line. Conner behind, at the very least, a top 5 line.

Conner is very good and on pace for a great year, but I hope he can stay healthy. Barkley is younger, doesn’t have the injury history Conner has, and has an explosive style that is better in this day and age for longevity’s sake compared to Conner’s bruiser style.

A big part of the issue is even though Barkley has to live under the pressure of being such a high draft pick, he’s one of the few lone bright spots on that team. Conner has to live under the pressure of being surrounded by stars and being the replacement to arguably the best RB in Steelers history. Was watching highlights from the Steelers’ playoff run in ‘16. Simply unreal how smooth Bell was. I hope Conner can be the same, but it’s a big reach.

You literally said that Conner wasn't an NFL back numerous times before this season. Don't pretend like your skepticism is sincere.

Conner isn't going to be Bell. Expecting that to happen is a great way to end up disappointed. The thing is, he doesn't have to be Bell. He's making a tiny fraction of what Bell would have. Even if he's half the player that Bell is, he's still a better value. You can go out and find someone to complement him and still save money. Do you think the Saints would take Bell over Ingram and Kamara? He's better than both, but it wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Al Smith]

You literally said that Conner wasn't an NFL back numerous times before this season. Don't pretend like your skepticism is sincere.

Conner isn't going to be Bell. Expecting that to happen is a great way to end up disappointed. The thing is, he doesn't have to be Bell. He's making a tiny fraction of what Bell would have. Even if he's half the player that Bell is, he's still a better value. You can go out and find someone to complement him and still save money. Do you think the Saints would take Bell over Ingram and Kamara? He's better than both, but it wouldn't make any sense.

I don't know. Kamara is pretty damn good.

 

[ImporterExporter]

There are MANY on this very board who shit on Conner all off-season, even through the beginning of the year. Didn't matter how many big games he's had, how many records he's set. Him doing as well as he has makes the people (you know who you are) look dumb. And God forbid people eat the crow after the fact. I hate this day and age where people hide behind a keyboard and wont admit they were wrong. One rough game and let's make snarky "bell would have caught that" and other ridiculous comments.

Bell ain't here. He decided to be an asshat and a 3rd round pick who most wrote off as nothing more than a backup, is having a pro bowl caliber season. If anything Conner's season is making me wonder just how great LB really was.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

There are MANY on this very board who **** on Conner all off-season, even through the beginning of the year. Didn't matter how many big games he's had, how many records he's set. Him doing as well as he has makes the people (you know who you are) look dumb. And God forbid people eat the crow after the fact. I hate this day and age where people hide behind a keyboard and wont admit they were wrong. One rough game and let's make snarky "bell would have caught that" and other ridiculous comments.

Bell ain't here. He decided to be an asshat and a 3rd round pick who most wrote off as nothing more than a backup, is having a pro bowl caliber season. If anything Conner's season is making me wonder just how great LB really was.

Posts are there to look up. I wont mention myself constantly posting vids of Conner and how he could replace Bell( or did I just do that?) But yeah you were one of the few who also believed he would be a solid back for us.

 

[Brandinho]

There are MANY on this very board who **** on Conner all off-season, even through the beginning of the year. Didn't matter how many big games he's had, how many records he's set. Him doing as well as he has makes the people (you know who you are) look dumb. And God forbid people eat the crow after the fact. I hate this day and age where people hide behind a keyboard and wont admit they were wrong. One rough game and let's make snarky "bell would have caught that" and other ridiculous comments.

Bell ain't here. He decided to be an asshat and a 3rd round pick who most wrote off as nothing more than a backup, is having a pro bowl caliber season. If anything Conner's season is making me wonder just how great LB really was.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Conner was dealing with something toward the end of the game. That play where he ran the wrong route and didn't turn around happened on the same drive as the drop, didn't it? Those are two very uncharacteristic plays and the fact that they happened so close together gives me pause, especially in light of the fact that they happened during the game immediately after he came out of concussion protocol.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

18 INTs on the year now for the Bears. Damn.

We have what...6?

This is what I was referring to when needing that "playmaker" in the secondary and at ILB. Get one of those to go with our front 7 and we are much better off. Obviously we are good with Haden, Hilton, and Davis right now. But CB2 is where we can add "that guy" along with ILB. Bostic and Vince have been doing well but adding an all pro there would put us over the top.

Hopefully Edmunds can keep developing as well..hes shown he has some ball skills and is a smart player.

 

[Bingo71]

Bortles is a solid QB, though. The stats don't lie. He's solid. He's not more than solid, he leaves things to be desired, absolutely, but people act like he's barely hanging on to an NFL job. If you want to replace Bortles, you're either spending a high draft pick or paying somebody a lot of money in free agency. That's pretty clearly one of the next steps that the Jags need to make if they want to get over the hump, but Blake Bortles is not the reason that team is 3-7.

I guess we agree to disagree then.

I think Bortles’ stats are misleading though. When their run game is on, it loosens up the secondary and allows him to find open receivers. Reminds of Ben when he first started out. You’d look at his stat line and it would be something like 13-17 for 189 and a TD. Nothing fancy but efficient thanks to a punishing run game and a solid D.

Butler made adjustments at halftime and essentially told the Jags that if they were going to move the ball in the second half, Bortles was going to have to throw. Well, we saw what happened. Now Jacksonville’s O line was beat up and pass protection was poor, but Bortles couldn’t make the necessary plays to beat the adjustments.

I see Bortles on a tier with QBs like Tannehill or Fitzpatrick or Keenum or Foles, etc. Inconsistent QBs that do not thrive in pressure situations, they fold.

Add in the fact that the Jags don’t have a ton of talent at the WR position or TEs that pose a threat and you end up with the one dimensional team that they are.

I just believe that Marrone would really benefit from a QB that is just a level higher than BB.

 

[Bingo71]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Conner was dealing with something toward the end of the game. That play where he ran the wrong route and didn't turn around happened on the same drive as the drop, didn't it? Those are two very uncharacteristic plays and the fact that they happened so close together gives me pause, especially in light of the fact that they happened during the game immediately after he came out of concussion protocol.

I think the drop was another example of the Steelers playing scared against the Jags. Conner was worried about getting clocked and took his eyes off the ball to see who was coming.

The Pats seem to scare them and mess with them mentally. The Jags seem to scare them physically.

 

[Brandinho]

I guess we agree to disagree then.

I think Bortles’ stats are misleading though. When their run game is on, it loosens up the secondary and allows him to find open receivers. Reminds of Ben when he first started out. You’d look at his stat line and it would be something like 13-17 for 189 and a TD. Nothing fancy but efficient thanks to a punishing run game and a solid D.

Butler made adjustments at halftime and essentially told the Jags that if they were going to move the ball in the second half, Bortles was going to have to throw. Well, we saw what happened. Now Jacksonville’s O line was beat up and pass protection was poor, but Bortles couldn’t make the necessary plays to beat the adjustments.

I see Bortles on a tier with QBs like Tannehill or Fitzpatrick or Keenum or Foles, etc. Inconsistent QBs that do not thrive in pressure situations, they fold.

Add in the fact that the Jags don’t have a ton of talent at the WR position or TEs that pose a threat and you end up with the one dimensional team that they are.

I just believe that Marrone would really benefit from a QB that is just a level higher than BB.

Were Bortles' stats misleading against the Pats? You gave Marrone credit for beating the Pats, but Bortles threw for 376 yards and 4 TD in that game.

I actually agree with you in terms of where you place Bortles, but disagree with the bit about those QBs folding in pressure situations. Nick Foles, in particular, is an awful example of someone who "folds in pressure situations". Those guys are all solid QBs but they each lack different things that hold them back. You can improve on them and you can do worse than them, but I don't see any commonality in terms of not being able to handle pressure.

You're not wrong when you say that the Jags would be better off with a better QB, but that goes for every team that isn't fortunate enough to have a franchise QB. I think the key point of divergence is that you seem to think Marrone is a victim of Bortles, whereas I don't. Both of those guys can and should be replaced if the Jags want to reach their potential, but they could have any QB you want to give them and Marrone will still fail.

 

[The Old Master]

I think the drop was another example of the Steelers playing scared against the Jags. Conner was worried about getting clocked and took his eyes off the ball to see who was coming.

The Pats seem to scare them and mess with them mentally. The Jags seem to scare them physically.

it seemed to me that he knew the importance of that play and was looking to run instead of first catching the ball. not fear of being hit.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think the drop was another example of the Steelers playing scared against the Jags. Conner was worried about getting clocked and took his eyes off the ball to see who was coming.

The Pats seem to scare them and mess with them mentally. The Jags seem to scare them physically.

This one of the dumbest posts I’ve read today. What are you even on about?

The Steelers D absolutely wrecked the Jags offense in the second half. They had -3 yards on their last five drives. -3 yards. That’s some ‘85 Bears level shit.

They literally kicked the living shit out of the Jags offense and then rolled their D when it mattered.

-3 yards... and you are going on about them being afraid of the Jags?

How could you even be that delusional to think that up?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

it seemed to me that he knew the importance of that play and was looking to run instead of first catching the ball. not fear of being hit.

Thats exactly it.

Glad AB bailed him out the next play on that 3rd and 10. Nice throw and catch by Ben/AB. Thought for sure we were headed to OT after Conner dropped that.

And now he doesnt have to think about it...or hear it about it in interviews. Because we won the game.

Like I said, I think he will have a big game next week. Ben had to throw 47 times today...I see us getting back to only having him throw for around 30.

 

[Bingo71]

Any QB can have a big performance against any team at any time, but performances like what Bortles did against the Pats are the exception, not the norm. Bortles just isn’t a 300+ yard, 3 TD a game type QB, and this is in a league where that is now the norm every week.

Great coaching and a strategic gameplan that is executed well can really help any QB look great. Now I’ll admit that I didn’t watch the Jax/NE game but I assume that Marrone and the staff found a way to expose New England’s D and executed that strategy well. Some teams set up the passing game with the run and others set up the run with the pass. Good coaches find new schemes and wrinkles to use week in and week out and expose opposing teams’ flaws. Some teams are really great at adjusting in game and fixing what isn’t working.

I’m not saying that Marrone is a great coach, but when I look at Tomlin sometimes, you have to wonder what some of these coaches on “bad” teams would do with the talent that Tomlin has. I’ve said it before, so many coaches in the league do so much more with so much less than Tomlin has. Too many times we see Tomlin having the team ill prepared or having a gameplan that isn’t working but stubbornly sticking with it. Consistent lack of discipline, both on and off the field. No accountability. Too many times Tomlin’s team is beaten before the opening kickoff. Alleged “lesser” coaches with “lesser” talent find ways to beat the Steelers.

When you look at the Pats, do you think about all the talent they have? No. Beyond Brady and Gronk (and Gordon now) most people couldn’t tell you who the hell they have out there. How many running backs have they had over the past 5 years? Can anyone name them all? Bell wants $17 million with $45 million guaranteed when New England proves year in and year out that they can just plug in a warm body and have success? Nope. It all comes down to schemes, gameplanning, and accountability. The Pats draft smart players rather than physical freaks. Their players can learn a new scheme or make adjustments with ease and never miss a beat. They scheme receivers open and make it easy for Brady to play pitch and catch.

My point is that too many times the Steelers beat themselves in these games. They have the talent advantage most weeks but are wildly inconsistent, especially on offense. They rarely scheme receivers open and instead rely on playing sandlot football where Ben scrambles around and tries to find an open reciever. And the forcing to AB. Nobody reins that in and it absolutely needs to happen. I don’t care how much Ben “trusts” him, he isn’t Calvin Johnson out there. Big, rangy corners and safeties have the advantage because of AB’s size. Don’t force it, play smart. Take what the defense gives you.

It just seems like Tomlin and the coaching staff seem to hamstring the team so many times. Too many times we watch the team wallow and flail on offense for the entire game and then of course Ben or AB or someone else pulls a horseshoe out of their ass at the last minute for the win and you have Tomlin standing there like he was today on the sideline with his arms up as if HE planned it that way all along. A team with this kind of talent on offense shouldn’t be consistently needing a last minute game winning drive, they should be rolling teams like the Saints are this year.