OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Clock Management? Pfffft. We got this.

[ColePens]

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[Coastal Kev]

We beat NE last year and then Al Riveron happened.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Since I'm not a bright individual. I'll note that It's been 6 wins in a row since Tomlin lost the locker room.

Dude, the rhetoric is old, seriously.

This shit happens every single year under Tomlin. We have seen them play like ass, pick themselves up and go on win streaks and finish strong, only to f*** it all up come playoff time.

It’s only a different story when Tomlin stops shitting the bed in the playoffs.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I know its up to Tomlin to remind him...but Ben has been bad at clock management since hes entered the league.

He always did this...grounds the ball when he doesnt need to. Did it in the Superbowl against the Cards on that last drive. Loves to save TOs...I dont recall us losing because of it but something Ive noticed over the years.

But yeah thats what the HC is for. You tell your QB what to do.

 

[ColePens]

Dude, the rhetoric is old, seriously.

This **** happens every single year under Tomlin. We have seen them play like ass, pick themselves up and go on win streaks and finish strong, only to **** it all up come playoff time.

It’s only a different story when Tomlin stops ****ting the bed in the playoffs.

This x10000000.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Dude, the rhetoric is old, seriously.

This **** happens every single year under Tomlin. We have seen them play like ass, pick themselves up and go on win streaks and finish strong, only to **** it all up come playoff time.

It’s only a different story when Tomlin stops ****ting the bed in the playoffs.

To me its less about coaching and more about having a healthy team(at the most import positions that is..we lost too many key players over the years...that group against the Pats in the AFCC was pathetic).

 

[KIRK]

@ColePens, I think you're wrong about clock management THIS TIME.

1. Why didn't the call timeout before the 2 minute warning? The one successful play the Jags had all half was faking the handoff, sucking the D in, and hitting Fournette out of the backfield. Nice, safe play. IF you call timeout before the 2 minute warning, there's zero risk to the Jags calling that play, since the TV timeout is coming whether it's complete or not. BUT, if you wait until the 2 minute warning, then the Jags have an incentive to run (forcing the Steelers to use timeouts). I 100% knew that's what Marrone would do. He was going to play the odds and trust the D instead of letting Bortles throw (like the previous drive, when he was incomplete on 3rd and the clock stopped).

2. Why didn't the Steelers run after the spike inside the 3? Say the run and don't make it. You have to use the timeout. About 12-15 seconds left. The OL has been **** all day. What happens if the rush gets through quickly? A bad throw? A sack before a throw away? If that happens, it's game over. No, I get your argument here, as I told @ImporterExporter, but calling what Tomlin did there bad clock management isn't exactly right.

BTW, YOU definitely know that I think Tomlin is a ******* moron (and of course the pride and joy of The Andy Reid School for Advanced Clock Management Studies).

 

[wheelz87]

Dammit shoplifter I had a big post and it went away with the changing of threads.

Basically.. I mean 8 points is a one possession game. At the time we scored, I didn't feel, all things considered, we had more than 2 scoring drives in us. (the Jags had dominated til that one lucky pass play.. just pounding the run and controlling the clock) So not only do we need to drive the ball for two more scoring drives.. hell we might not get the ball more than two more times.

 

[Shockmaster]

Not to downplay the LA Chargers, but all their wins have come against teams that are currently .500 or worse. Kudos to them for taking advantage of an easy schedule, but they haven't really beaten anyone yet.

 

[KIRK]

Dammit shoplifter I had a big post and it went away with the changing of threads.

Basically.. I mean 8 points is a one possession game. At the time we scored, I didn't feel, all things considered, we had more than 2 scoring drives in us. (the Jags had dominated til that one lucky pass play.. just pounding the run and controlling the clock) So not only do we need to drive the ball for two more scoring drives.. hell we might not get the ball more than two more times.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is indulging in revisionist history.

And, yes, we got 4. BUT, we needed the 3rd and 4th possessions to turn the game.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I know its up to Tomlin to remind him...but Ben has been bad at clock management since hes entered the league.

He always did this...grounds the ball when he doesnt need to. Did it in the Superbowl against the Cards on that last drive. Loves to save TOs...I dont recall us losing because of it but something Ive noticed over the years.

But yeah thats what the HC is for. You tell your QB what to do.

I think you diagnosed the problem without providing the answer. Tomlin is horrible at managing the clock, 2pt conversions and overall game at times. Ironically, I first took note in his first playoff game against Jax where he went for a 2 point conversion from the 12 yard line.

That one decision cavalcade'd to the team losing by a 2 pts.

 

[ImporterExporter]

@KIRK

The problem was them letting the clock roll all the way to 22 seconds. I get letting some time wind off. You don't want to give the Jags much left if you score, BUT not only do you let the time go, you f***ing spike the ball, completely wasting a down. Dumb.

Then you are in tight trying to throw, throw, throw on a team that's already created a shitload of turnovers, including in the endzone, when you have arguably the most physical starting RB in football. Yeah, he dropped a big 3rd down catch. Dropped an easy TD. Shit game from Conner (although he was never given looks for most of the game on the ground) no doubt. But with a TO in your back pocket you run the ball there every damn time. Instead we nearly blew it with shit play calling and Ben getting in by half the length of the ball.

There is no other way around that sequence being a terrible set of calls and clock management.

 

[KIRK]

Not to downplay the LA Chargers, but all their wins have come against teams that are currently .500 or worse. Kudos to them for taking advantage of an easy schedule, but they haven't really beaten anyone yet.

They only played 2 winning teams. They lost to KC like we did at home opening week. And, they lost week 3 against the Rams when the Rams were going crazy on everyone.

One COULD argue they're finding their groove like us.

BUT, yes, it certainly is a test for them too.

 

[KIRK]

@KIRK

The problem was them letting the clock roll all the way to 22 seconds. I get letting some time wind off. You don't want to give the Jags much left if you score, BUT not only do you let the time go, you ****ing spike the ball, completely wasting a down. Dumb.

Then you are in tight trying to throw, throw, throw on a team that's already created a ****load of turnovers, including in the endzone, when you have arguably the most physical starting RB in football. Yeah, he dropped a big 3rd down catch. Dropped an easy TD. **** game from Conner (although he was never given looks for most of the game on the ground) no doubt. But with a TO in your back pocket you run the ball there every damn time. Instead we nearly blew it with **** play calling and Ben getting in by half the length of the ball.

There is no other way around that sequence being a terrible set of calls and clock management.

Definitely the fairest critique about clock management.

So, say you don't spike. About 35 seconds left, yes? I guess you COULD run. Then what if you don't score? Rush 2nd or spike. And what happens with a sack.

I guess I'm saying IF the Steelers OL hadn't looked like **** all game, then I'd feel as definitively as you do.

Doesn't mean that I'm saying you're wrong. I think you know that. Just that I get under the circumstances why they spiked it.

 

[PensPlz]

Hey! We finally had that shift that Hornqvist was talking about last night:

 

[wheelz87]

@ColePens, I think you're wrong about clock management THIS TIME.

1. Why didn't the call timeout before the 2 minute warning? The one successful play the Jags had all half was faking the handoff, sucking the D in, and hitting Fournette out of the backfield. Nice, safe play. IF you call timeout before the 2 minute warning, there's zero risk to the Jags calling that play, since the TV timeout is coming whether it's complete or not. BUT, if you wait until the 2 minute warning, then the Jags have an incentive to run (forcing the Steelers to use timeouts). I 100% knew that's what Marrone would do. He was going to play the odds and trust the D instead of letting Bortles throw (like the previous drive, when he was incomplete on 3rd and the clock stopped).

2. Why didn't the Steelers run after the spike inside the 3? Say the run and don't make it. You have to use the timeout. About 12-15 seconds left. The OL has been **** all day. What happens if the rush gets through quickly? A bad throw? A sack before a throw away? If that happens, it's game over. No, I get your argument here, as I told @ImporterExporter, but calling what Tomlin did there bad clock management isn't exactly right.

BTW, YOU definitely know that I think Tomlin is a ******* moron (and of course the pride and joy of The Andy Reid School for Advanced Clock Management Studies).

In regards to number 2.. I can't remember the exact sequence. We had first and goal at the 3 with 15 seconds left after the PI? And one TO of course. If I'm coach, I absolutely throw on first. Quick hitter. 5 seconds max. If incomplete, THEN I run it. If stuffed, you kick the fg and go to OT. (that atleast gives you two cracks, if not a third "if you don't live in your fears" or whatnot)

My issue is, I dont think Tomlin had any plan to run the ball, even though Ben did. I do believe it was throw it every down until time dictated a fg or going for it with a few ticks left. (and still not entertaining a run on the final play even though the result is moot)

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

To me its less about coaching and more about having a healthy team(at the most import positions that is..we lost too many key players over the years...that group against the Pats in the AFCC was pathetic).

Coaching always matters, especially in the NFL.

Tomlin has lost the benefit of the doubt until he can actually prove he can get the job done in the playoffs.

If he does, I’ll give him his deserved props, but if it’s the same old story again...

 

[KIRK]

In regards to number 2.. I can't remember the exact sequence. We had first and goal at the 3 with 15 seconds left after the PI? And one TO of course. If I'm coach, I absolutely throw on first. Quick hitter. 5 seconds max. If incomplete, THEN I run it. If stuffed, you kick the fg and go to OT. (that atleast gives you two cracks, if not a third "if you don't live in your fears" or whatnot)

My issue is, I dont think Tomlin had any plan to run the ball, even though Ben did. I do believe it was throw it every down until time dictated a fg or going for it with a few ticks left. (and still not entertaining a run on the final play even though the result is moot)

Fair. But, that's not a clock management issue. That's a play calling issue.

 

[Bingo71]

We beat NE last year and then Al Riveron happened.

I know that’s something for us to cling to, but the reality is they had NE on the ropes late in the 4th quarter and then played turktle ball and Brady marched right down the field to take the lead.

Should have never came to that but Tomlin “lives in his fears” far too often.

 

[wheelz87]

Anyone suggesting otherwise is indulging in revisionist history.

And, yes, we got 4. BUT, we needed the 3rd and 4th possessions to turn the game.

Just looked it up, we score with barely over a minute left in the third. Jacksonville had a 9 minute scoring drive in the first quarter and, idk, conservatively 23 minutes of possession in the first half? Yea we needed to maximize our scoring opportunities.

 

[KIRK]

Coaching always matters, especially in the NFL.

Tomlin has lost the benefit of the doubt until he can actually prove he can get the job done in the playoffs.

If he does, I’ll give him his deserved props, but if it’s the same old story again...

During the first half, while the board was doing its 'replaced Ben with Dobbs and all will be well' yinzer schtick, I had the temerity to mention that the game planning for this one was absolute crap.

Not being ready for the Jags to try to run the ball down the defense's throats?

Not being ready for the hard 4 man rush, press coverage?

I mean, just one example I mentioned going back to last year. AB struggles to get off press coverage against big, athletic corners. SO, why not put him in motion more, so he can get cleaner releases? Or isolate him in crossing routes, like they finally did on that last catch on the game winning drive?

I mean, I get that Ben was pure, unadulterated **** for 3 quarters, but how can they not be ready for things like these?

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Coaching always matters, especially in the NFL.

Tomlin has lost the benefit of the doubt until he can actually prove he can get the job done in the playoffs.

If he does, I’ll give him his deserved props, but if it’s the same old story again...

No Im with you on Tomlin...just think us losing those key players had a huge impact. All at times when couldnt be replaced by another either. Bell 3 times. Brown. Shazier last year..defense was a mess after.

I just want to see what happens with those types of players not going down. Every team has injuries but some you just cant replace.

 

[Bingo71]

Oh, and while we’re talking about clock management, let’s not forget about that New England game from last year.

James “catches” a TD and the offense goes to the bench. As the review is happening, NOBODY on the sideline is worried about figuring out what to do if the call is overturned. Not Haley, not Tomlin, not Ben, NOBODY. So they are rushed back out on the field in a clusterf*** and, well, you know the result...

You think BB and Brady would have been standing there with their thumbs up their asses in thet situation? I think not.

 

[KIRK]

No Im with you on Tomlin...just think us losing those key players had a huge impact. All at times when couldnt be replaced by another either. Bell 3 times. Brown. Shazier last year..defense was a mess after.

I just want to see what happens with those types of players not going down. Every team has injuries but some you just cant replace.

I expected Butler and Tomlin to be morons coming into this one. They were. **** game plan. That said, I'll give Butler props. He adjusted for the 2nd half.

The guy who kind of disappointed with Fichtner. I'd hoped to see a little less Haley and a little more adapting to the Jags defense. I'd hoped to see some adjustment as the OL struggled, as it often does, against traditional good 4 man rushes. I just hope he learns from this one . . .

 

[KIRK]

Oh, and while we’re talking about clock management, let’s not forget about that New England game from last year.

James “catches” a TD and the offense goes to the bench. As the review is happening, NOBODY on the sideline is worried about figuring out what to do if the call is overturned. Not Haley, not Tomlin, not Ben, NOBODY. So they are rushed back out on the field in a cluster**** and, well, you know the result...

You think BB and Brady would have been standing there with their thumbs up their asses in thet situation? I think not.

Now THAT is a different story.