The Pettersson and Hughes Contract Thread

[Luck 6]

Is 18 million not enough?

I get the feeling JP Barry is trying to get Hughes term and Petey a 5yr deal that has him holding all the cards if he doesn't like where things are going and he has some big offensive yrs.

What are the risk factors?.....Hughes sucks at defending and is purely an offensive guy and that Pettersson gets to free agency at 26/27.

Hughes has no arbitration rights use the leverage to give him a show us short term deal understanding he will not surpass Makar and give Petey as long as you can. Ideally to 30 if they can get 8yrs.

Should be plenty of money to get this accomplished

That's my hunch as well. This hold out may have less to do with the dollar value, but more about the term. JP Barry probably wants 4-6 years, and Benning wants 2-3 years or 8 years. I really hope Benning stays firm on the term.

 

[racerjoe]

I can’t confirm this cause it’s over my head, but someone was talking in one of the cap threads, we lose cap space from bonuses if we don’t sign Peterson and Hughes before training camp.

can anyone confirm this?

 

[krutovsdonut]

I don’t share Johnny’s pessimistic views on EP, but when it comes to Hughes, I just don’t understand how people can put the blinders on to the deficiencies in that guy’s game and have no worries about a term/big money deal with him.

Is his defense going to be good enough that he can outplay his matchups enough to justify his contract? Currently, he’s shown that he can’t hold his head at ES.

I’d give Pettersson basically any number long term though. No worries with him and think the injury criticism is ridiculous/unfair.

i am not in any way pessimistic about hughes as a contributing nhl player, but i agree his defensive shortcomings last season should limit his market value unless and until he shows he can consistently overcome them as a pro. we already know he can in the short term overcome them from the playoffs last year where he survived three rounds in which nobody cut him any rookie slack.

the real question for me is whether the team will bet he can overcome his shortcomings in making him an offer. my guess is they will try and use that as leverage to get a long term deal, by offering him less money short term based on recent performance.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I can’t confirm this cause it’s over my head, but someone was talking in one of the cap threads, we lose cap space from bonuses if we don’t sign Peterson and Hughes before training camp.

can anyone confirm this?

i may be wrong but i believe it is before we finalize the roster at the end of the camp. you can use ltir for bonus money if you structure payroll right against the cap.

 

[MarkMM]

i am not in any way pessimistic about hughes as a contributing nhl player, but i agree his defensive shortcomings last season should limit his market value unless and until he shows he can consistently overcome them as a pro. we already know he can in the short term overcome them from the playoffs last year where he survived three rounds in which nobody cut him any rookie slack.

the real question for me is whether the team will bet he can overcome his shortcomings in making him an offer. my guess is they will try and use that as leverage to get a long term deal, by offering him less money short term based on recent performance.

The big question to me is whether Hughes can mature to become solid defensively. He's by all accounts smart and hard working so are his shortcomings things that with proper coaching, training and dedication he can improve on, or is he just limited in his size or other factors that he'll never improve enough to be trusted with top-end competition without being sheltered?

 

[krutovsdonut]

The big question to me is whether Hughes can mature to become solid defensively. He's by all accounts smart and hard working so are his shortcomings things that with proper coaching, training and dedication he can improve on, or is he just limited in his size or other factors that he'll never improve enough to be trusted with top-end competition without being sheltered?

i would not bet against it. i just wonder if he will achieve it by getting himself on a team with more defensive structure so he has more options and help.

 

[F A N]

I think last year was just a terrible year for Hughes (sophomore slump?) and I'm not worried about committing long term $$$ to him at all. He remains a Dman whose ability to transition the puck and produce offensively is almost unmatched. The strategy should be to maximize his abilities. If it means playing him like AV did Ehrhoff you do it.

 

[sting101]

We don't have $18M in cap space.

Hor Boes JTM TP Dick Garl Pod Hog Sut Mac Mott High = 32.267
Myer OEL Rath Juo Ham Pool = 20.435
Dem Hal = 6.5
Luongo Holtby Virtanen = 3.585
= 62.787
Cap = 81.5 - 62.787 = 18.713 - 649k for Bonus overages = just over 18 million for Petey and Hughes unless i'm missing something with a 22 man roster if they had to squeeze things. With Abby as our farm its not as much of a detriment.

For Pettersson something around 8 x Aho money 8.5 and Makar money 9 makes sense to me

For Hughes keep it even at a year if you have (ideally 2 or 3) to see if he doesn't continue to be one of the worst defenders in the league 5 v 5. I suspect he will be fine but there is a ton of risk if he gets Heiskanen Chabot Makar stratosphere and is a PP piece that is fun to watch but a goalie killer.

I don't think it's being disrespectful either he needs to prove to be competent. Nor is it a risk as after this summer he's not gonna take a sweetheart deal with the money his peers are getting and he's not gonna outplay Makar and his 9 million contract. Best case he goes to the moon and we pay him the same as Petey and we have 2 of the best players we have ever had locked down at their positions

 

[Dump Itch]

How hard is it for JB to just hand them a contract to sign? 7x7 and call it a day.

 

[Quinton Byfield]

How hard is it for JB to just hand them a contract to sign? 7x7 and call it a day.

I suppose as easy as them saying no and calling it a day.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

but is it possible that a guy can be a canucks fan and yet spend all his time criticizing everything about the team, denigrating all its players and constantly saying things obviously intended to provoke and annoy canucks fans?

there's a real paradox to consider. one potentially resolved by an ip check.

Not sure how many times I need to repeat this but … I have a few minutes.

1) 15,000 posts + over 15 years at HF and not a single post in any other teams board except ours.

2) mods HAVE IP checked me lol. They do when you’re banned (which I get a lot) and you try to create a new account from same IP.

3) why is it shocking to you that some fans are negative about a team that has the 2nd lowest winning % in the NHL EVER. Ever. Think about that. That’s not a small sample size. Only Arizona fans can be more pissed than us and they haven’t been around nearly as long. One of the only teams to no never win a cup. We are the Cleveland browns of hockey. What the f*** do you have to be so cheery about? Maybe I want to support a winner for once in my life vs waking up every year like you eating up the same garbage management spews getting you all fired up for nothing. #WeAreAllCanucks #Believe

 

[M2Beezy]

You’re not a meteorologist. You have no business talking about the sky.

With posts like this Johnny is slowly turning into my favourite poster

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Unfortunately, given the prognostications concerning the near future trajectory of climate change, human civilization will collapse before the Canucks have a chance of winning the Cup.

 

[GreatSaveLuongo]

Sedins need to take more charge and talk some sense into these kids

 

[PuckMunchkin]

but is it possible that a guy can be a canucks fan and yet spend all his time criticizing everything about the team, denigrating all its players and constantly saying things obviously intended to provoke and annoy canucks fans?

there's a real paradox to consider. one potentially resolved by an Hip check.

There.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I think it’s crazy that JB is going to give a ridiculous number near or at Makar when QH literally needs to be babysat a defensive partner to not even hold his own. “Yeah but with Tanev he was ok”. You don’t pay 9M for a player that can only be “ok” if he has a specific partner covering your mistakes.

 

[mathonwy]

Sedins need to take more charge and talk some sense into these kids

Sedins need to shitcan the entire FO and restore confidence to the players and the fans.

Employees that don't trust their managers won't perform.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I think it’s crazy that JB is going to give a ridiculous number near or at Makar when QH literally needs to be babysat a defensive partner to not even hold his own. “Yeah but with Tanev he was ok”. You don’t pay 9M for a player that can only be “ok” if he has a specific partner covering your mistakes.

This obviously isn’t going to happen.

 

[rypper]

Forwards - 33,191,667m (Boeser. Horvat. Miller, Garland, Pearson, Dickinson, Motte, Sutter, Podkolzin, Hoglander, MacEwen, Highmore)

Defense - 20,345,000m (OEL, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman, Rathbone, Juolevi)

Goalies - 6.500,000m (Demko, Halak)

Extra - 4,223,992m (Buyouts, recapture, bonuses)

Total: 64,260,659m

Cap space: 17,239,341m

I think they keep Schenn up as well because he's a righty, and they gave him 2 years. I think the team would be loathe to waive Juolevi, but would they carry 8 defense? Rumor is that Motte might not be ready to start the year so if his 1.2m turns into 750k that might help with carrying an extra defender.

The team also starts it's first 6 games on the road, with the middle 4 being far enough distance they'll likely want extra bodies on hand in case of injury. The final game of the road trip is Seattle and that's close enough to get reinforcements the same day.

So if you play it safe, say 17m to get Pettersson and Hughes done.

Preferably I would go long with Pettersson, bridge Hughes, but I'm not sure Pettersson would go long.

Pettersson 3 years - 25m (8.5 aav 7/8.5/10) or 8 years 72m (9.3 aav 6.5/8.5/10/10/10/10/10/10)
Perhaps structure it differently, maybe have years 5 +6 slightly higher and 7+8 slightly lower.

If you go long with Pettersson I'm not sure you have the space to get Hughes done long. Maybe you could massage it. I think you could give Hughes a Chabot type deal, with a little bump for inflation. Or a shorter term deal modeled after McAvoy's (3 years 19m 6.3m aav 5/6.5/7.5)

I personally feel much more comfortable opening the vault to Pettersson, because I think he's a special player that is going to absolutely break out this year. Hughes is too, but I'm a little more cautious.

 

[MarkMM]

Forwards - 33,191,667m (Boeser. Horvat. Miller, Garland, Pearson, Dickinson, Motte, Sutter, Podkolzin, Hoglander, MacEwen, Highmore)

Defense - 20,345,000m (OEL, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman, Rathbone, Juolevi)

Goalies - 6.500,000m (Demko, Halak)

Extra - 4,223,992m (Buyouts, recapture, bonuses)

Total: 64,260,659m

Cap space: 17,239,341m

I think they keep Schenn up as well because he's a righty, and they gave him 2 years. I think the team would be loathe to waive Juolevi, but would they carry 8 defense? Rumor is that Motte might not be ready to start the year so if his 1.2m turns into 750k that might help with carrying an extra defender.

The team also starts it's first 6 games on the road, with the middle 4 being far enough distance they'll likely want extra bodies on hand in case of injury. The final game of the road trip is Seattle and that's close enough to get reinforcements the same day.

So if you play it safe, say 17m to get Pettersson and Hughes done.

Preferably I would go long with Pettersson, bridge Hughes, but I'm not sure Pettersson would go long.

Pettersson 3 years - 25m (8.5 aav 7/8.5/10) or 8 years 72m (9.3 aav 6.5/8.5/10/10/10/10/10/10)
Perhaps structure it differently, maybe have years 5 +6 slightly higher and 7+8 slightly lower.

If you go long with Pettersson I'm not sure you have the space to get Hughes done long. Maybe you could massage it. I think you could give Hughes a Chabot type deal, with a little bump for inflation. Or a shorter term deal modeled after McAvoy's (3 years 19m 6.3m aav 5/6.5/7.5)

I personally feel much more comfortable opening the vault to Pettersson, because I think he's a special player that is going to absolutely break out this year. Hughes is too, but I'm a little more cautious.

I think we generally go with 8 defencemen and probably should given the travel and history of injuries.

Agree with all the above, especially being more comfortable going long with Petersson than Hughes, we might have the space to do it this year but we'll need to think through next year when there'll be a pinch. But yeah, if you can get EP signed long-term you do it and then see what you need to do to free up space next year.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Forwards - 33,191,667m (Boeser. Horvat. Miller, Garland, Pearson, Dickinson, Motte, Sutter, Podkolzin, Hoglander, MacEwen, Highmore)

Defense - 20,345,000m (OEL, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman, Rathbone, Juolevi)

Goalies - 6.500,000m (Demko, Halak)

Extra - 4,223,992m (Buyouts, recapture, bonuses)

Total: 64,260,659m

Cap space: 17,239,341m

I think they keep Schenn up as well because he's a righty, and they gave him 2 years. I think the team would be loathe to waive Juolevi, but would they carry 8 defense? Rumor is that Motte might not be ready to start the year so if his 1.2m turns into 750k that might help with carrying an extra defender.

The team also starts it's first 6 games on the road, with the middle 4 being far enough distance they'll likely want extra bodies on hand in case of injury. The final game of the road trip is Seattle and that's close enough to get reinforcements the same day.

So if you play it safe, say 17m to get Pettersson and Hughes done.

Preferably I would go long with Pettersson, bridge Hughes, but I'm not sure Pettersson would go long.

Pettersson 3 years - 25m (8.5 aav 7/8.5/10) or 8 years 72m (9.3 aav 6.5/8.5/10/10/10/10/10/10)
Perhaps structure it differently, maybe have years 5 +6 slightly higher and 7+8 slightly lower.

If you go long with Pettersson I'm not sure you have the space to get Hughes done long. Maybe you could massage it. I think you could give Hughes a Chabot type deal, with a little bump for inflation. Or a shorter term deal modeled after McAvoy's (3 years 19m 6.3m aav 5/6.5/7.5)

I personally feel much more comfortable opening the vault to Pettersson, because I think he's a special player that is going to absolutely break out this year. Hughes is too, but I'm a little more cautious.

I think the team feels the same way. Therefore if EP was willing to sign a 7-8 year deal around 9M per season it probably would have happened by now. This kind of stuff will start leaking soon if past offseasons are any indication.

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

Im pretty confident both contracts will be done by the end of the week

 

[MarkMM]

I pretty confident both contracts will be done by the end of the week

Anything in particular you're hearing/reading, gut feel or based on history?

 

[Bertuzzipunch]

Anything in particular you're hearing/reading, gut feel or based on history?

Mostly gut, also a week away from training camp. Hearing they gonna go hard next week to get it done.

 

[Jimnastic]

Not sure how many times I need to repeat this but … I have a few minutes.

1) 15,000 posts + over 15 years at HF and not a single post in any other teams board except ours.

2) mods HAVE IP checked me lol. They do when you’re banned (which I get a lot) and you try to create a new account from same IP.

3) why is it shocking to you that some fans are negative about a team that has the 2nd lowest winning % in the NHL EVER. Ever. Think about that. That’s not a small sample size. Only Arizona fans can be more pissed than us and they haven’t been around nearly as long. One of the only teams to no never win a cup. We are the Cleveland browns of hockey. What the f*** do you have to be so cheery about? Maybe I want to support a winner for once in my life vs waking up every year like you eating up the same garbage management spews getting you all fired up for nothing. #WeAreAllCanucks #Believe

There are people who just have a permanent chip on their shoulder. I have been a Canucks lover since 1970. My BIL always cheers for the other team, because he is jerk and likes to bait everyone. There was a guy in our section (top of the Red Fs at the old Coliseum) who always wore the competition jersey to every game and voiced his hate of the Canucks. There is always going to be a vocal minority.
We have had some great players and some great periods on the Canucks. (getting Bure, the brilliance of the Sedins thanks to Burke, drafting EP). We have come within an inch of two Lord Stanleys.

Armchair quarterbacks (to very slightly mix metaphors) can always find fault with management, especially in hindsight.

Believe me. I became apoplectic over the signings of Schaller, Louie, Beagle, Rousell, Sutter (price, not player) and other short term fixes to achieve little while creating long term pain.

For the first time since the heyday of the Sedins (hallowed be their names) we have a complete team with a great young core. We have swung for the fences (again, wrong sport metaphor) at high risk with our signing of OEL and Garland.

But, I would argue that there is a real chance this a team that could go deep if only a few things go well....EP becomes a 100 pt player when other teams have 3 scoring lines to defend against and we have a strong breakout defence feeding him....Hughes grows defensivly with a stronger team and more experience....Podz steps in and takes a significant role...and (the make or break) OEL returns to close to the form that made him a Norris contender. I would further argue that each one of these is a real possibility.

Jimbo has emptied our cupboard to give us a chance. There really are only two possibilities. Either we have a magic team for a few years with real prospect for our one bugbear, obtaining the elusive Lord Stanley. Or it all turns into a complete clusterf*ck.

I desperately hope Jim has found a formula.

(Now, let's hear the flamers....but, but, but.... Green, mismanagement, etc. etc. ad nauseum)

Go Canucks!