The Pettersson and Hughes Contract Thread | Tick tock...

[Canuckle1970]

I am not sure if there are any defenders even out there to acquire.

True, but it helps to have some flexibility for a trade deal.

 

[StreetHawk]

A Proposal for the NHL’s Eichel Problem | Podcasts - Sportsnet.ca

Just listened to that segment of the podcast: You neglected to provide any context.

He talks about the Canucks' short-term offer to Hughes (3 years) being in the 5's. On a six-year deal he says they were "obviously higher than 6...probably in the 7s, but felt they had to adjust up after what Dahlin got".

Provorov got $6.75 mill for 6 years. He’s a minute muncher type Dman so very different style than Hughes but the type of guy you need. Don’t think I’d like to see anything bridges that is too close to that number.

 

[VanillaCoke]

This probably doesn't get done until Hamonic is decided, not that they should use all of that money, but I wouldn't be surprised, you know since they're dumb.

 

[F A N]

9M for a guy who’s never played a full season or hit 40 Gino’s.


What a world.

It adds nothing to the discussion to complain about the world we live in. You can do that in the OT thread. I assume you know what world we live in and that's a world where Petey can command $9M.

 

[iceburg]

Hey, maybe Hughes agent is giving Hamonic a cut

 

[coastal_nuck]

It adds nothing to the discussion to complain about the world we live in. You can do that in the OT thread. I assume you know what world we live in and that's a world where Petey can command $9M.

Agreed. Those complaining that Hughes doesn't deserve over 5.5 or Petey over 7 need to realize that the NHL economics are not the same as they were even 2 years ago. Multiple examples and references support that. They are going to get paid.

 

[iceburg]

Agreed. Those complaining that Hughes doesn't deserve over 5.5 or Petey over 7 need to realize that the NHL economics are not the same as they were even 2 years ago. Multiple examples and references support that. They are going to get paid.

The irony is that these bigger contracts are going to have a direct negative impact on a large number of players. The higher end will get paid at the same time as the player pool is paying their debt to the owners over the next two to three years. Way more players who would be making in the $2M-$4M range are going to be making close to league minimum.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Offering less than 6 million is ondoubtedly stingy, but Eliotte Friedman himself reported last week that the Canucks were trying to sign Hughes to a short-term bridge. So he per annum dollar amount is not directly comparable to what Heiskanen and Makar got on longer term deals.

it is easy enough to compare though. if heiskanen is treated as getting $6m for his rfa years, that means he is being paid more than $10.9m for his ufa years. with makar, for the rfa years to be $6m means the ufa years would be $15m each.

those numbers or anything near them seem very unlikely to have been what was being used to value their rfa years. to me, if the canucks offered hughes under $6m after these contracts were signed that is hardball. if that is an old number from early in the summer that has never been revisited, different story.

 

[StreetHawk]

Agreed. Those complaining that Hughes doesn't deserve over 5.5 or Petey over 7 need to realize that the NHL economics are not the same as they were even 2 years ago. Multiple examples and references support that. They are going to get paid.

Getting paid based on the market is fine. Just not the Leafs premium.

initially I thought Petey/Hughes for short, int, long term deals:

short - mid $7/high $5’s
Int - mid to high $8’s/low $7
Long - mid $9/ low $8’s

more comfortable with the int and long term on Petey than I am with Hughes. Aside from KAprizov don’t think there’s another forward signing that altered the market. and the Canucks can then toss in Svech at $7.75 for 8 years as a counter to KAprizov.

 

[iceburg]

This is what drives me crazy about making judgements on negotiations. We hear a number but have absolutely no context around that number. What if the conversation with the agent went something like:
JB: we have $15.5M to give your two clients. If EP wants $10M on a long term deal, that only leaves $5.5M for QH. If those are the numbers your clients want we can talk term and structure.
Agent: Understood
JB: Would QH take that number on a short term deal?
Agent: No
End of conversation

We have next to zero details about these negotiations. Any criticism other than maybe "why is it taking so long?" is pretty weak IMO.

 

[Sneezy]

Benning can't stomach those deals because he filled up on breadsticks, Pearsons, and Poolmans before the main course.

Leaving yourself with very limited room to negotiate around your cornerstone franchise players is certainly an interesting decision to make.

The Canucks have more than enough room to sign these players depending on their ask.

 

[rypper]

The Canucks have more than enough room to sign these players depending on their ask.

If this was the case, the deals would be done.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I am not sure if there are any defenders even out there to acquire.

Jason Demers is a RD. His career NHL ppg is only .31 and last season it was .1. He is unsigned. He just completed a 5-yr/$4.5 mil deal with Arizona. It was front loaded for the first 2 seasons. Last year he made $3.6 mi, but his cap hit was 4.5 mil all 5 years of the contract.

Nate Prosser is also an available RD. he jusat completed a 2-yr $700K/425K with Philadelphia. played the entirety of '19-20 in AHL Lehigh Valley and all of last season in Philly playing 6 games.

Luca Sbisa and Braydon Coburn are the available LDs.

The pickings are scarce for sure and Demers is probably the best of the bottom of the barrel.

I am afraid he's run out of time on this option. The waiver wire might become the best option. After that it's a trade.

 

[rypper]

A return of Sbisa would be EPIC.

 

[Chimpradamus]

While I'm with 100% certainty am not being sarcastic in my confidence that Benning will solve this, I'm amusing myself watching a horde of monkeys going on a rampage. I don't know why, but it's what what I found while having my thoughts about the management situation for the Canucks.



I mean, look at them go. Organized, with a purpose and just as well thought out as the Canucks manag... I mean... I didn't mean that. On a second note, that's alot of monkeys. Just put up a bunch of signs with crucial management decisions and whichever way the majority of the monkeys run, you do that. Then you can sack the GM with probably better results.

Do you think I can apply to become the GM for the Canucks? Me and say 200 monkeys? I would prefer 500 if it's in the budget, it will give enhanced decision making. Can you imagine if a franchise won the Cup with 500 monkeys as the bosses? 200 on a budget, 25 if we're going Melnyk style but then I cannot guarantee any good results. You get what you pay for.

Even better, if there's ever a media interaction, I pick the PR monkey in a suit and have him eat grapes on TV and preferably not shit on the cameras. It will be a work in progress.

 

[Nucker42]

I’m very confused how Benning is still
Employed?

Can we just recap a few things?

1. can’t get his two franchise players signed

2. trades away multiple 1st round picks

3. 2 x confirmed top 6 pick busts (Juolevi and Virtanen)

4. has to buy out contracts less than a year after he signs them (holtby virtanen)

5. has to deal away 1st rounders to get out from terrible contracts he signed previously (beagle roussel eriksson)

6. acquires arguably the worst contract in the league (OEL) then calls him a number 1 d man

So, he puts all of his cards in after 7 terrible years as a GM now when he finally has a decent top 9, he can’t get his two best players signed…… I’m very confused how he is still employed? Maybe someone can clarify why exactly someone can be absolute trash at their job but they can still keep the job?

he gave Loui f***ing Eriksson 6 million a year….. pay these guys up and get them signed

 

[CpatainCanuck]

it is easy enough to compare though. if heiskanen is treated as getting $6m for his rfa years, that means he is being paid more than $10.9m for his ufa years. with makar, for the rfa years to be $6m means the ufa years would be $15m each.

those numbers or anything near them seem very unlikely to have been what was being used to value their rfa years. to me, if the canucks offered hughes under $6m after these contracts were signed that is hardball. if that is an old number from early in the summer that has never been revisited, different story.

Makar for one is clearly better than Hughes right now: He is the complete package projected by almost everyone to be a perennial Norris Contender. There's a reason he was 2nd in Norris voting last year with 31 1st place votes and 655 voting points while Quinn Hughes garnered 0. If you want to use Makar as a comparable for Hughes for a long-term deal the comparison is that Hughes should be getting significantly less than Makar.

 

[Samzilla]

I’m very confused how Benning is still
Employed?

Can we just recap a few things?

1. can’t get his two franchise players signed

2. trades away multiple 1st round picks

3. 2 x confirmed top 6 pick busts (Juolevi and Virtanen)

4. has to buy out contracts less than a year after he signs them (holtby virtanen)

5. has to deal away 1st rounders to get out from terrible contracts he signed previously (beagle roussel eriksson)

6. acquires arguably the worst contract in the league (OEL) then calls him a number 1 d man

So, he puts all of his cards in after 7 terrible years as a GM now when he finally has a decent top 9, he can’t get his two best players signed…… I’m very confused how he is still employed? Maybe someone can clarify why exactly someone can be absolute trash at their job but they can still keep the job?

he gave Loui f***ing Eriksson 6 million a year….. pay these guys up and get them signed

Benning has a 9 year plan and we're only on year 7. Give him time.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Makar for one is clearly better than Hughes right now: He is the complete package projected by almost everyone to be a perennial Norris Contender. There's a reason he was 2nd in Norris voting last year with 31 1st place votes and 655 voting points while Quinn Hughes garnered 0. If you want to use Makar as a comparable for Hughes for a long-term deal the comparison is that Hughes should be getting significantly less than Makar.

i am confused by this post. nobody said he should make the same as makar.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

The Canucks have more than enough room to sign these players depending on their ask.

Seems like an overly simplistic view, because "depending on their ask" is doing a LOT of lifting here. If they're asking for valuations in line with their peers and not willing to offer a discount, it'll be extremely tight to fit them both in. If they are willing to take some discount or short-term deals, why wouldn't they already be signed?

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I feel like the MacKinnon thing really made a lot of young players go for top dollar right off the bat.

Nate gave up millions after signing that deal. Granted, he wasn't the player he is now, but man...that's like 2-3 million a season at least that he missed out on.

 

[Melvin]

I’m very confused how Benning is still
Employed?

Can we just recap a few things?

1. can’t get his two franchise players signed

2. trades away multiple 1st round picks

3. 2 x confirmed top 6 pick busts (Juolevi and Virtanen)

4. has to buy out contracts less than a year after he signs them (holtby virtanen)

5. has to deal away 1st rounders to get out from terrible contracts he signed previously (beagle roussel eriksson)

6. acquires arguably the worst contract in the league (OEL) then calls him a number 1 d man

So, he puts all of his cards in after 7 terrible years as a GM now when he finally has a decent top 9, he can’t get his two best players signed…… I’m very confused how he is still employed? Maybe someone can clarify why exactly someone can be absolute trash at their job but they can still keep the job?

he gave Loui f***ing Eriksson 6 million a year….. pay these guys up and get them signed

yeah that sums it up pretty well. It is rather astonishing, and that’s even forgiving all of his blunders from his first few seasons.

 

[canuckking1]

Basically what I said a few days ago. Dahlin screwed the market. f*** the sabres for overpaying just for the sake of it.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

i am confused by this post. nobody said he should make the same as makar.

So what's with all your convoluted math: "with makar, for the rfa years to be $6m means the ufa years would be $15m each".

If Makar had signed a 3-year bridge deal it should have been for significantly more than Hughes' hypothetical 6 million: If Hughes signs a long-term 6+ year deal it should be for significantly less than Makar's $9,000,000 caphit.

 

[F A N]

I feel like the MacKinnon thing really made a lot of young players go for top dollar right off the bat.

Nate gave up millions after signing that deal. Granted, he wasn't the player he is now, but man...that's like 2-3 million a season at least that he missed out on.

The agents have frequently outsmarted the GMs. It also doesn't help that arbitration has rarely worked in the team's favour because the arbitrator usually just rewards something in the middle.