The Pettersson and Hughes Contract Thread | Tick tock...

[WetcoastOrca]

Not worried yet. If it’s not done by this upcoming weekend then I’d start to get worried. The pressure is just really starting now that training camp has started.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Benning can't stomach those deals because he filled up on breadsticks, Pearsons, and Poolmans before the main course.

Leaving yourself with very limited room to negotiate around your cornerstone franchise players is certainly an interesting decision to make.

i really don't think throwing money at the problem is the issue here. if these players want the flexibility to get out of here, they are not going to want albatross contracts. they are going to want term.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

What is a “casual” referring to?

It generally means anyone who doesn’t agree with the poster’s opinion.

 

[krutovsdonut]

It's term. The sticking point is term and positioning for leverage on the next contract. As for JB's job on the line, we're not at that point yet.

probably it is term, but, if so, it's leverage to get out of here. if they can get 4 or 5 year deals, they become depreciating assets and the team has to look to trade them long before then if they seem unlikely to re-sign.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

that i think depends on your perspective.

You have been very clear on yours.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

Curious to hear what you think they "deserve?"

I think the Cap room is there to sign them to what they deserve. Maybe they are asking for more than they deserve? In that case, I am almost happy there is not enough cap space to give them more.

Still not sold on where Hughes ends up. He is the most dynamic offence defensive this team had had maybe ever, but if he can't improve defensively, he does not deserve an elite level deal.

Still hoping Petey ends up being the player we can all see is there, and be top 5 centre in this league, but he is still a lightweight who has to prove he can make it through a tough season. With that said, with his brain and competitiveness, and with elite skills and decision making, he does deserve the risk to sign him to elite level RFA deal, but with comparables that we can afford under our cap right now, IMO.

What I don't want Benning to do is to cave and walk them right to or close to UFA because he feels backed into a corner with a lack of leverage. EP needs to be 3 or under years or 6 plus. No 4 or 5 year deal that walks him right to or 1 year into UFA.

Having said all that, what could be a bright beginning to the season with players who seem jacked up compared to last year, could become a final nail in the coffin for the players belief in being here- and I can't take another 7 year rebuild LOL. Please get a deal done NOW!

The fundamental issue which I (with no actual inside knowledge) expect is a sticking point here is the Canucks internal cap structure. Not just that we've paid big money to bad players and they're taking up that cap space, but the fact that these players serve as internal benchmarks for other contracts. I agree that the Canucks' current cap space should be enough to get fair deals done in a vacuum, but unfortunately this is not a vacuum. The Canucks' inconsistent and frequently ridiculous contract work allows CAA to point at OEL and say "Well you're comfortable paying that guy $7.25M and Hughes is way better than him, so we're not taking a dollar less." Internal comparables make this way harder for the Canucks than it should, and it is not the fault of the players that they are using their leverage to their advantage

 

[krutovsdonut]

You have been very clear on yours.

you have not got a clue what my perspective is.

 

[rypper]

Second hand but some news:

 

[MS]

Not worried yet. If it’s not done by this upcoming weekend then I’d start to get worried. The pressure is just really starting now that training camp has started.

I mean, they're going to sign. I don't have the slightest bit of worry about that. I would be absolutely shocked if both players aren't in the lineup on opening night.

The question is going to be how badly this management group which is desperate to save their jobs for another year are about to get bent over.

 

[MS]

Second hand but some news:

That would be terrible, but it would be amazing to see the backpedaling from the usual suspects who have spent years LOLing about the Auston Matthews contract.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

i really don't think throwing money at the problem is the issue here. if these players want the flexibility to get out of here, they are not going to want albatross contracts. they are going to want term.

Right, throwing money at the problem is only the solution when it comes to 3rd line wingers, and 3rd pairing defensemen. It could never work on franchise centers or defensemen.

 

[bandwagonesque]

The fundamental issue which I (with no actual inside knowledge) expect is a sticking point here is the Canucks internal cap structure. Not just that we've paid big money to bad players and they're taking up that cap space, but the fact that these players serve as internal benchmarks for other contracts. I agree that the Canucks' current cap space should be enough to get fair deals done in a vacuum, but unfortunately this is not a vacuum. The Canucks' inconsistent and frequently ridiculous contract work allows CAA to point at OEL and say "Well you're comfortable paying that guy $7.25M and Hughes is way better than him, so we're not taking a dollar less." Internal comparables make this way harder for the Canucks than it should, and it is not the fault of the players that they are using their leverage to their advantage

”But we demanded retention on that contract and are only paying him 6.25M.”

“Do you think I care? I’m a figment of someone’s imagination in service of a strained, wholly speculative argument. It’s 9M or we hold out.”

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

”But we demanded retention on that contract and are only paying him 6.25M.”

“Do you think I care? I’m a figment of someone’s imagination in service of a strained, wholly speculative argument. It’s 9M or we hold out.”

I'm confused by what you're saying here. We are paying OEL $7.25M after retention, and it's not like internal benchmarks are a speculative concept. That's why when the Sedins resigned in 2009 at $6.1M each, that set an internal cap on the rest of the team because you can't make more than the best players.

Thinking that the agents are not pointing at the team's other bad deals and using those as factors in negotiations is fantasy

 

[MS]

”But we demanded retention on that contract and are only paying him 6.25M.”

“Do you think I care? I’m a figment of someone’s imagination in service of a strained, wholly speculative argument. It’s 9M or we hold out.”

Uh, you are deducting the retention twice.

OEL's contract pays him ~$8.3 million and we are paying him ~$7.25 million.

 

[Melvin]

Second hand but some news:

who is Chris Johnson?

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

you have not got a clue what my perspective is.

Weird how you're the only arbiter of truth and meaning on here.

 

[rypper]

who is Chris Johnson?

https://twitter.com/reporterchris

worked for Sportsnet, appeared on NHL network, etc. Self proclaimed NHL insider.

 

[Melvin]

My prediction is that Hamonic will opt out on Oct 1 and Benning will use the extra 3M to lock up Petey and Hughes, pulling yet another Homer.

 

[M2Beezy]

So with Hamonic now possibly retiring that should free up Benning to sign an expensive 4th liner so he can get back to focusing on Pettersson and Hughes contracts

 

[rypper]

My prediction is that Hamonic will opt out on Oct 1 and Benning will use the extra 3M to lock up Petey and Hughes, pulling yet another Homer.

Even more a Homer moment, if Hamonic just outright retires.

 

[Rick Rocket]

Even more a Homer moment, if Hamonic just outright retires.

And the man will continue to learn nothing

 

[MarkMM]

In that book about General Managers, there was a Canucks GM that said that something to keep in mind is that you should be able to list the players from top to bottom on one column in terms of ability and value and on the other column top to bottom in terms of pay. When you draw lines to connect the two they should all or almost all be parallel, but if you have a spiderweb you've seriously f***ed up and no matter how much players understand "it's a business", having lesser players paid more does make it harder for chemistry and buy-in.

 

[Fantomas]

Second hand but some news:

Wonder what this means for Hughes.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Right, throwing money at the problem is only the solution when it comes to 3rd line wingers, and 3rd pairing defensemen. It could never work on franchise centers or defensemen.

we will see what the dollars are eventually i guess. my money (so to speak) is on term being the issue.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

we will see what the dollars are eventually i guess. my money (so to speak) is on term being the issue.

You can't decouple them like that, term and cap hit go hand-in-hand. If you want to lock up a franchise player for the full 8 years and buy 4 years of UFA, you have to pay up. If Petey gets ~8.5M x 5 like Aho did, then obviously it's gonna cost a lot more to buy an additional 3 UFA years of him in his prime.

We can't afford to be pay them any more than about ~8M each, so it's us who are forced to lower the term to get them to fit under the cap and not the other way around.

The term is the issue only because we lack the space to buy out more UFA years.