OT: The OT Thread Part 5: New HF Talk

[doulos]

I wonder if most of the BC people against the pipeline are aware they have 17000km of pipeline already.

How many kms of those are carrying undiluted bitumen?

 

[doulos]

Alberta wouldn’t even need to rely on the pipeline if we just stopped equalization payments.

Just that easy!

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

If only there was a more socially liberal, but fiscally middle-of-the-road/conservative party. I really wish Notley would consider going federal, but she has no federal party that suits here imo.

Cons couldn't even beat a guy who did literal blackface. Hilarious.

 

[I am the Liquor]

If only there was a more socially liberal, but fiscally middle-of-the-road/conservative party. I really wish Notley would consider going federal, but she has no federal party that suits here imo.

Cons couldn't even beat a guy who did literal blackface. Hilarious.

They have antiquated world views and cater to wing nuts, religious fundamentalists and bigots. Voters looking for plausible alternatives won’t vote for them because of this. The party won’t change because their base is largely made up of the aforementioned groups. Their fiscal policy consists of cutting corporate taxes and cutting social programs, health and education. Their ideas are old, lame, tired and don’t work, yet they never come up with anything new or innovative.

So we have to endure another term of lying, corrupt, entitled and arrogant liberals.

 

[Jumptheshark]

and just to be "that guy" again

for those of you who are seriously considering joining the wexit group and coughing up $10 to $30 bucks for membership-- it has been set up as a for profit organization--at least as of right now and going off what I read on the site and a few others places--there is no over sight of him explaining where and how he will be spending the money

I saw this song and dance in the mid 80's and helped organize some stuff--till I realized that some people were making a lot of money off the idea and when I asked simple questions they gave vague answers

On line there is very little actual independent info on who Peter Downing is. So before giving him you money blindly--actually ask him questions and get a clear idea of what the over sight will be for where the money is going. Right now, he can obviously charge the the group for "his time and effort" with no cap--saw this at the early stages of the reform party. There were people who were "seriously looking" at stuff charging over 100 grand a month and once it was requested just what they looked at to start filing reports--they no longer had time for group

And of course get a clear understanding of what his plan is.

Wexit Alberta

interesting manifesto but it lacks certain things

and of course there is a store where you can buy MAGA type of things

this guy will make a mint for awhile

 

[Little Fury]

Alberta wouldn’t even need to rely on the pipeline if we just stopped equalization payments.

Alberta doesn't make equalization payments. Individual Albertans do through the taxes they pay to the federal government.

 

[Little Fury]

and just to be "that guy" again

for those of you who are seriously considering joining the wexit group and coughing up $10 to $30 bucks for membership-- it has been set up as a for profit organization--at least as of right now and going off what I read on the site and a few others places--there is no over sight of him explaining where and how he will be spending the money

I saw this song and dance in the mid 80's and helped organize some stuff--till I realized that some people were making a lot of money off the idea and when I asked simple questions they gave vague answers

On line there is very little actual independent info on who Peter Downing is. So before giving him you money blindly--actually ask him questions and get a clear idea of what the over sight will be for where the money is going. Right now, he can obviously charge the the group for "his time and effort" with no cap--saw this at the early stages of the reform party. There were people who were "seriously looking" at stuff charging over 100 grand a month and once it was requested just what they looked at to start filing reports--they no longer had time for group

And of course get a clear understanding of what his plan is.

Wexit Alberta

interesting manifesto but it lacks certain things

and of course there is a store where you can buy MAGA type of things

this guy will make a mint for awhile

99 percent of these right-wing operatives are pure grifters preying on Boomers with terminal cases of Facebook brain. Sad! That said, anyone who buys this business of their membership exploding overnight deserves to be fleeced.

Also, I'm pretty sure this Downing character also has ties to white nationalists.

 

[Jumptheshark]

99 percent of these right-wing operatives are pure grifters preying on Boomers with terminal cases of Facebook brain. Sad! That said, anyone who buys this business of their membership exploding overnight deserves to be fleeced.

Also, I'm pretty sure this Downing character also has ties to white nationalists.

He is a member of the Christian Heritage party and ran in mills woods for federal election in 2015-came 7 out of 8th

and this is the core platform

Platform
Some of the key goals and principles of the CHP are:

• Promoting the right to life from conception to natural death[5]
• Protecting life for vulnerable Canadians (Seniors, Handicapped, etc)[5]
• Protecting parental rights[5]
• Protection of traditional marriage[5]
• Provide Family Care Allowance when one parent is providing full-time care in the home for children or dependent family members[5]
• Use the Bank of Canada to overhaul the economy and the infrastructure of Canada by providing interest-free loans to municipalities, provinces and crown corporations[5]
• Eliminate income tax, and replace it with a "fair tax"[6]
• Pay off the national debt "like a mortgage and institute balanced budget protocols"[7]
• Support responsible firearms ownership[8]
• Restrict immigration to preserve equality and freedom, including a "moratorium on immigration from any Sharia based countries

So it looks to me---if he stood for office for this guy he is pretty right wing of the conservatives and anti immigration from any non christian countries

 

[Jamin]

Alberta doesn't make equalization payments. Individual Albertans do through the taxes they pay to the federal government.

People always say that as if equalization isn't a thing. Sure it's tax revenue and not a direct transfer but it is still money taken out of Alberta and spent elsewhere, mostly Quebec.

 

[Jamin]

Does anyone know why hydro is not included in the formula. I have to think all the electricity Quebec sells if it counted they wouldn't be getting as much in hand outs

 

[Little Fury]

People always say that as if equalization isn't a thing. Sure it's tax revenue and not a direct transfer but it is still money taken out of Alberta and spent elsewhere, mostly Quebec.

But it's money that would go to the feds regardless. The reason Albertans pay into it is that Alberta's economy has been and continues to be among the strongest among the provinces. Albertans make more money and thus pay more taxes. Any system designed to level the field between the haves and have-nots will obviously see the haves pay more. I don't see how Alberta can bitch about a system that it opted into (and whose current premier decided not to change when he was in a position to do so) when it is really a sign of its own success.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

But it's money that would go to the feds regardless. The reason Albertans pay into it is that Alberta's economy has been and continues to be among the strongest among the provinces. Albertans make more money and thus pay more taxes. Any system designed to level the field between the haves and have-nots will obviously see the haves pay more. I don't see how Alberta can ***** about a system that it opted into (and whose current premier decided not to change when he was in a position to do so) when it is really a sign of its own success.

How has Quebec continually getting more equalization payments.

Maybe its time they develop something that actually builds their economy, but they depend on government handouts and seemingly dont care.

Their equalization payouts have gotten more and more over the years.

 

[snag]

I know I won't be popular based on the comments here...but I would welcome a separation from Canada. All things being equal, landlocked or not...I feel we would be better off. TMX has $5.5billion of oil go through a year (assuming a $50barrel). so convert that to CDN and you got what....$7.25? What are the royalties on that....5.2% on post-payout projects....a whopping $377mill give or take. Leave Canada, keep the $18billion that STILL left Alberta last year and turn the taps off on TMX.

Of course....things never work out as simple as that either. But greatness was never achieved by anyone who never took a chance and I would rather live and die by my own decisions than with a foot on my head when I am already drowning.

 

[oXo Cube]

I know I won't be popular based on the comments here...but I would welcome a separation from Canada. All things being equal, landlocked or not...I feel we would be better off. TMX has $5.5billion of oil go through a year (assuming a $50barrel). so convert that to CDN and you got what....$7.25? What are the royalties on that....5.2% on post-payout projects....a whopping $377mill give or take. Leave Canada, keep the $18billion that STILL left Alberta last year and turn the taps off on TMX.

Of course....things never work out as simple as that either. But greatness was never achieved by anyone who never took a chance and I would rather live and die by my own decisions than with a foot on my head when I am already drowning.

 

[snag]

 

[Jumptheshark]

I am amused how many people are joining the #wexit group, giving them money and are not asking what will be done with the money.

Christian heritage party is making mint right now

 

[Dorian2]

I don't know if Politics and Religion are OK in this thread, but I'll just say that the words Christian + Fundamentalism isn't a particularly good mix of ideology.

 

[joestevens29]

Looks like Calgary laid off 300 Husky employees this morning

The timing was perfect with the election and all, but at the end of the day that company has been in a lot of trouble for a long time already.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The timing was perfect with the election and all, but at the end of the day that company has been in a lot of trouble for a long time already.

They still are making profit I believe

 

[Little Fury]

How has Quebec continually getting more equalization payments.

Maybe its time they develop something that actually builds their economy, but they depend on government handouts and seemingly dont care.

Their equalization payouts have gotten more and more over the years.

On the flip side, if Alberta decided to raise its taxes to levels comparable to those in other provinces, we'd probably end up seeing less money going to equalization and more staying in the province, but that's not a choice we've made.

 

[Little Fury]

They still are making profit I believe

Took a cool $233 Million home thanks to the big UCP tax break too.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

On the flip side, if Alberta decided to raise its taxes to levels comparable to those in other provinces, we'd probably end up seeing less money going to equalization and more staying in the province, but that's not a choice we've made.

We should just drop taxes to 0 and have massive deficits

 

[Drivesaitl]

On the flip side, if Alberta decided to raise its taxes to levels comparable to those in other provinces, we'd probably end up seeing less money going to equalization and more staying in the province, but that's not a choice we've made.

Increased taxation, less representation.

Its a slippery slope and one time game playing this economically. Another view is that increasing taxes limits how much people can invest, and what the investment climate of the nation is. Perhaps the formula for equalization could be modified to more accurately reflect relative provincial income disparity. Quebec is not as have not as the current formula shows and the intent of equalization is to insure equal services are provided in each region. An argument could be made that Quebec is over provisioned in this regard.

 

[Little Fury]

Increased taxation, less representation.

Its a slippery slope and one time game playing this economically. Another view is that increasing taxes limits how much people can invest, and what the investment climate of the nation is.

Adding a PST, (which every other province has) wouldn't impact capital investment and would enable Alberta to wipe out its deficit practically overnight. It's such a simple solution, but Albertans (who already pay less in taxes than anyone in Canada) are so reflexively anti-tax that it's a non-starter.

Perhaps the formula for equalization could be modified to more accurately reflect relative provincial income disparity. Quebec is not as have not as the current formula shows and the intent of equalization is to insure equal services are provided in each region. An argument could be made that Quebec is over provisioned in this regard.

Are you talking about government revenue or individual income here? Quebeckers make less money and pay more in taxes than Albertans, on average.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Adding a PST, (which every other province has) wouldn't impact capital investment and would enable Alberta to wipe out its deficit practically overnight. It's such a simple solution, but Albertans (who already pay less in taxes than anyone in Canada) are so reflexively anti-tax that it's a non-starter.



Are you talking about government revenue or individual income here? Quebeckers make less money and pay more in taxes than Albertans, on average.

Govt Revenue.

The formula does not accurately gauge hydro benefit in Manitoba or in Quebec. This is of course a huge problem and inequity.

Equalization: Quebec’s advantage a complex problem

Of course both Manitoba, and Quebec, spend inordinately on public services because they can, through equalization, and while providing severely subsidized energy to its residents, which again it can, because the equalization formula actually rewards doing so..

Peter Holle: Artificially cheap hydro power, your equalization dollars at work

Again, the intent of equalization is to ensure equal services are able to be provided across the country. Quebec has inordinate revenues AND gets topped off with an imbalance of equalization. Really they get almost all of it, despite being a have province.

edit to edit

As for PST its been shown virtually anywhere that increasing tax surcharge of any kind does not actually pay off the debt, it inures greater spending. Increasing taxation, in applied terms would pay off debt IF prudent fiscal management was a thing. But it rarely is in spending other peoples money. Its not strange for citizens to be warry of increased taxation and surcharge. They rarely see benefit.