OT: The OT Thread Part 5: New HF Talk

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OilerTyler

Disgruntled
Jul 5, 2009
16,962
8,597
Edmonton
It annoys me that the NDP fell ass backwards into this position and Singh is talking like he won the whole damn election. They should not have more influence than the official opposition, but they will.

If the Conservatives want more influence they can choose to work alongside the Liberals like the NDP is going to do. If they want to continue to have beliefs and values that contradict those of the majority of Canadians that’s their own problem.

The reason the NDP is in such a good position is because they are a left wing party in a country where the vast majority of voters wanted a left wing government. Many of their beliefs are a lot more palatable to Canadians than those of the Conservatives. This isn’t a bad thing. More voters are being represented now.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
Sorry my mistake I forgot that change. But my point is correct before they counted a ballot in Alberta the election was decided.

And people ask why Alberta gets the short straw

Whether you like it or not Albert's needs to form a party like the Bloc and stick to it this time

Just vote for the CPC. The CPC defends Albertan interests as well as any Alberta-only party could.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
If the Conservatives want more influence they can choose to work alongside the Liberals like the NDP is going to do. If they want to continue to have beliefs and values that contradict those of the majority of Canadians that’s their own problem.

The reason the NDP is in such a good position is because they are a left wing party in a country where the vast majority of voters wanted a left wing government. Many of their beliefs are a lot more palatable to Canadians than those of the Conservatives. This isn’t a bad thing. More voters are being represented now.

We are conservatives. We're not changing that. Good luck trying. Yes, the majority of Canadians are left wing and want a left wing government. The majority of those also live in three cities. We're not going to give in to them.
 

oXo Cube

Power Play Merchant
Nov 4, 2008
10,903
10,887
In your closet
I've worked for the Conservative Party, and have met Scheer a few times, and I can tell you he was NOT the reason we lost. We lost because a bunch of voters in Ontario decided that they didn't care about corruption, or hypocrisy, or anything when it came to Trudeau. The media pushed the "Scheer has a hidden so-con agenda" bull**** and the voters bought it.

You seem like a completely unbiased source on why Scheer and his message don't resonate with voters out east.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
The whole election story. GTA 45liberal 5 conservative. One City deciding for Canada once again. The Liberals got 30% of their electoral wins all in the GTA. What a working system.

gta-election-map.png

I worked on one of the GTA Conservative campaigns. Won't say which one for privacy reasons. We really thought we had a shot at winning. We got destroyed.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
You seem like a completely unbiased source on why Scheer and his message don't resonate with voters out east.

I'm not saying that's why the message didn't resonate. I'm saying it's why we lost.

The message didn't resonate because we focused imo too much on detailed policy and not enough on one-liners and simple points. Take the environment for example. We had a three-pronged plan for climate change and the environment based on international cooperation and global leadership, technology development, and environmental preservation. The liberals had two words: Carbon Tax. Actually three, because they called it a "Price on Carbon." Made it easy for the Liberals to suggest we had no plan, whereas imo we had the best plan of all the parties.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,240
56,926
Canuck hunting
I've worked for the Conservative Party, and have met Scheer a few times, and I can tell you he was NOT the reason we lost. We lost because a bunch of voters in Ontario decided that they didn't care about corruption, or hypocrisy, or anything when it came to Trudeau. The media pushed the "Scheer has a hidden so-con agenda" bull**** and the voters bought it.

Whoops. I liked most of your posts in the thread but you are off on this one. Thats the difficulty with our perceptions. You like Scheer, I get it, he's a nice guy. But he doesn't resonate well to the electorate, and particularly to the female electorate. I wouldn't blame just the media and there were media going both ways. Scheer opens himself up for deeper criticisms and concerns.

Its not like Trudeau is fooling people either. The Liberal brand and policy and the devil you know held more sway. For sure it was a Conservative failure not to be able to take this Liberal term apart. This was low lying fruit. The Cons have themselves to blame this time, sorry to say.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
79,450
65,492
If the Conservatives want more influence they can choose to work alongside the Liberals like the NDP is going to do. If they want to continue to have beliefs and values that contradict those of the majority of Canadians that’s their own problem.

The reason the NDP is in such a good position is because they are a left wing party in a country where the vast majority of voters wanted a left wing government. Many of their beliefs are a lot more palatable to Canadians than those of the Conservatives. This isn’t a bad thing. More voters are being represented now.

It just annoys me to see them act like they owned the election when in reality they lost seats. I’m no big Conservative supporter, but when you gain 30+ seats and have over 120 seats overall you should have more influence than a party with less than 40 seats.
 
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Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
79,450
65,492
Whoops. I liked most of your posts in the thread but you are off on this one. Thats the difficulty with our perceptions. You like Scheer, I get it, he's a nice guy. But he doesn't resonate well to the electorate, and particularly to the female electorate. I wouldn't blame just the media and there were media going both ways. Scheer opens himself up for deeper criticisms and concerns.

Its not like Trudeau is fooling people either. The Liberal brand and policy and the devil you know held more sway. For sure it was a Conservative failure not to be able to take this Liberal term apart. This was low lying fruit. The Cons have themselves to blame this time, sorry to say.

Yep.

If they had had a more charismatic leader with a more socially progressive platform, they win this election handily.

I said earlier that smaller parties need to stop trying to project themselves as niche options and be bold enough to occupy a centrist position with some policy overlap of the major parties. You’d be surprised how many voters would go for a moderately progressive party on social policy with pragmatic economic policy.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,240
56,926
Canuck hunting
You seem like a completely unbiased source on why Scheer and his message don't resonate with voters out east.

You're a nicer poster when you're not this sarcastic..just saying. ;)

Its a Poli thread so nerves are raw. maybe go a bit easier..

Although your sarcasm is pretty likable generally.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
Yep.

If they had had a more charismatic leader with a more socially progressive platform, they win this election handily.

I said earlier that smaller parties need to stop trying to project themselves as niche options and be bold enough to occupy a centrist position with some policy overlap of the major parties. You’d be surprised how many voters would go for a moderately progressive party on social policy with pragmatic economic policy.

Um... what? Occupying a centrist position isn't "bold." You're basically describing the Alberta Party or the Alberta Liberals. How well did that work out provincially? The CPC needs to be bold enough to stick by fiscal conservatism, and defend freedom of conscience on social issues.
 

oXo Cube

Power Play Merchant
Nov 4, 2008
10,903
10,887
In your closet
You're a nicer poster when you're not this sarcastic..just saying. ;)

Its a Poli thread so nerves are raw. maybe go a bit easier..

Although your sarcasm is pretty likable generally.

Fair enough, but in my defense that poster came into the thread guns blazing in his first few responses. :) His reply to me is much more reasonable even if I disagree with it pretty much in it's entirety.

Not sure how much living in Alberta had to do with it but the CPC message came off to me as "you should vote for us because Trudeau is literally the anti-christ" and that was about it. Not surprising that people in Ontario aren't buying it.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
Whoops. I liked most of your posts in the thread but you are off on this one. Thats the difficulty with our perceptions. You like Scheer, I get it, he's a nice guy. But he doesn't resonate well to the electorate, and particularly to the female electorate. I wouldn't blame just the media and there were media going both ways. Scheer opens himself up for deeper criticisms and concerns.

Its not like Trudeau is fooling people either. The Liberal brand and policy and the devil you know held more sway. For sure it was a Conservative failure not to be able to take this Liberal term apart. This was low lying fruit. The Cons have themselves to blame this time, sorry to say.

I'm gonna stick by Scheer here, but I agree blaming the media was stupid on my part. Comment retracted. I'm just upset lol.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
72,613
31,701
Calgary
The election is what it is. I can't say I'm surprised by the results.

I just hope Trudy or whoever replaces him does what's best for the country and our province.
 

doulos

Registered User
Oct 4, 2007
7,725
1,235
I'm not saying that's why the message didn't resonate. I'm saying it's why we lost.

The message didn't resonate because we focused imo too much on detailed policy and not enough on one-liners and simple points. Take the environment for example. We had a three-pronged plan for climate change and the environment based on international cooperation and global leadership, technology development, and environmental preservation. The liberals had two words: Carbon Tax. Actually three, because they called it a "Price on Carbon." Made it easy for the Liberals to suggest we had no plan, whereas imo we had the best plan of all the parties.

Some of us who have voted conservative in the past actually really agree with the carbon tax and the fact that it was a conservative policy to just axe it made them a nonstarter.

Really though, I think a lot of this is just the ebb and flow of politics. People in Ontario will likely be tired of the Liberals by next election and conservatives will get their chance again. Sort of like the provincial election. EDIT: I mean the Ontario provincial election.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,240
56,926
Canuck hunting
Yep.

If they had had a more charismatic leader with a more socially progressive platform, they win this election handily.

I said earlier that smaller parties need to stop trying to project themselves as niche options and be bold enough to occupy a centrist position with some policy overlap of the major parties. You’d be surprised how many voters would go for a moderately progressive party on social policy with pragmatic economic policy.

I don't completely agree. Its possible to have ones own views and not have it be part of the platform one way or the other. Scheer was attacked mercilessly on his Christian views, for having them. It was straight out of 1984 thought crime and should have been called out as such. May and Scheer completely self destructed by appearing uncertain on how to respond to attacks that were meant to be vindictive. You don't you respond to dishonest vindication ideally by trying to circle around it.

Charles Adler did a good job taking it apart. He pointed out how the Cons focused on Trudeau not being honest, not being as he appears. Scheer by his own USA citizenship deception and his not defending his own belief system came across as being non genuine. Scheer had one primary job popularity wise. To come across as genuine to the electorate. Which is tragic because I think he is, but that his handlers and war room is so poorly run. They really botched a lot.

Trudeau ends up being Teflon while even thought crime stuck to Scheer like mud. go figure, go fish, go home. sigh.
 
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ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
Some of us who have voted conservative in the past actually really agree with the carbon tax and the fact that it was a conservative policy to just axe it made them a nonstarter.

Really though, I think a lot of this is just the ebb and flow of politics. People in Ontario will likely be tired of the Liberals by next election and conservatives will get their chance again. Sort of like the provincial election.

Fair enough, but I assume you're in the minority of former CPC voters. I'm also curious what you thought of the Conservative environmental plan.
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
79,450
65,492
Um... what? Occupying a centrist position isn't "bold." You're basically describing the Alberta Party or the Alberta Liberals. How well did that work out provincially? The CPC needs to be bold enough to stick by fiscal conservatism, and defend freedom of conscience on social issues.

The Conservatives don’t need to garner support in Alberta, they need to attract attention Ontario and Quebec.
 

ujju2

Registered User
Apr 9, 2016
9,650
6,512
Edmonton, AB
The Conservatives don’t need to garner support in Alberta, they need to attract attention Ontario and Quebec.

And they need to be Conservative. What's the point of being government if you aren't standing for your principles?

Also, the Reform Party wasn't so long ago that we can just forget it happened.
 
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