OT: The OT Thread Part 5: New HF Talk

[Drivesaitl]

Oh my, this in the Journal this Am

'It's a waste': Half of city's free use days at Rogers Place not used

This is going to get a lot of talk. The 28 days city use, for free, for being the proverbial owner of the arena was part of what was sold to Edmontonians of all incomes as their value added benefit in the COE helping to fund the arena build. The free days were to be for any civic events, days, uses at the arena and for the public of Edmonton to benefit. Really its one of the few benefits available in the deal, to the public, and its hardly even being used.

This should be shocking. It isn't really.

In other Arena news Rogers Place was 156 out of 200 in Polstar concert ticket sales the first half of 2018. Shockingly bad news. To add to this there were ZERO events at Rogers in July 2018. Zero. What exactly is going on?

So not only is this Arena outside of the Oilers not getting heavily used, its not even being used for its COE free dates. I mean in July the city for instance could have picked ANY date. Just for example.

 

[rboomercat90]

Oh my, this in the Journal this Am

'It's a waste': Half of city's free use days at Rogers Place not used

This is going to get a lot of talk. The 28 days city use, for free, for being the proverbial owner of the arena was part of what was sold to Edmontonians of all incomes as their value added benefit in the COE helping to fund the arena build. The free days were to be for any civic events, days, uses at the arena and for the public of Edmonton to benefit. Really its one of the few benefits available in the deal, to the public, and its hardly even being used.

This should be shocking. It isn't really.

In other Arena news Rogers Place was 156 out of 200 in Polstar concert ticket sales the first half of 2018. Shockingly bad news. To add to this there were ZERO events at Rogers in July 2018. Zero. What exactly is going on?

So not only is this Arena outside of the Oilers not getting heavily used, its not even being used for its COE free dates. I mean in July the city for instance could have picked ANY date. Just for example.

They made such a big deal about getting those free dates when the deal was signed but didn’t appear to put any thought into how they could even be used. I thought, at the time, that they’d be used for concerts during k-days the way Rexall used to host a different performer every day. I didn’t realize they weren’t allowed to charge money for these so called events. Kind of defeats the purpose of having those dates. Wouldn’t surprise me if the plan here was for the city to ignore these days and just forfeit them entirely. Man, did the city ever get bent over in that deal. These days need to be used, somehow, even if it’s just to open the place up for public skating.

 

[Drivesaitl]

^Theres many possible free entertainment uses and many acts that would welcome the chance to go on a stage for a free event. For instance Firefly theater always looking for exposure and they could setup some awesome aerial acts in there. They even performed at Canada Day in 20017 with Sarah McLachlan but that was a paid event.

Could also host a local battle of the bands or some such thing. Place could be used in Conjunction with any number of civic festivals. have the free performances for Jazz City, Taste Of Edmonton, Folk Fest etc at Rogers. So many corollary possibilities of which the city isn't even thinking of. Just because they can't charge admission doesn't mean that theres no benefit served to Edmontonians and to Edmonton arts with added exposure.

Could even do simulcasts of Citadel Theater plays or Jubilee Auditorium or Winspear performances. (With expressed permission) These facilities and others would welcome the exposure. Or an Edmonton civic booster video, not unlike the one Metallica showed at the Edmonton Commonwealth stadium concert last year. Edmonton made the video, and then never uses it. Metallica does more to prop up each venue and the city on the tour and record videos of each show for world wide audience and boosterism than almost any city does. Its incredible what opportunities are there that are just not being used. We're pretending this is going to be an increased tourism area so why not make a monthly open house for visitors, residents and complete with showing videos of Edmontons attractions. That's so much of a no brainer why is it me thinking about it...

Theres even around 200K new residents here in Edmonton that have never been to Jasper, never experienced the rockies, don't know much about what they can do and see in the province. Why doesn't the city just open this wide to promotion? Isn't that consistent with why Edmonton owns the thing? Do we still have a Chamber of commerce? Somebody should be on this.

As with most things the COE doesn't really do very well with managing things. This is a predictable result. But Nicholson is doing no better. The New Arena, from an entertainment POV, is cratering compared to the annual numbers Rexall would put up.

We got duped. Well I didn't, this was touted to be something it just was never going to be. We built one of the most expensive concert facilities in the world just when the bottom was dropping out of the concert entertainment industry. I always questioned that. My biggest question being how many nights could you fill something like this?

 

[Jamin]

My issue is why do arenas get targeted but not other publically funded venues? 41 Oiler games brings in far more people then most of these institutions but you never hear we got bent over spending 400 million on the Royal Alberta museum or 90 million on the art gallery.

A 2015 article suggests the gallery gets 97 visitors a day, assuming it operates 365 days a year thats 2 Oiler games...

Having said that I agree with its a waste not using the days the city is guaranteed but the administration is incompetent in just about everything they touch so not surprised.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The RAM is provincial funded. The gift of a capitol city is usually having a Legislature or Provincial Museum or University as plums. So you take it.

Art Gallery I was opposed to as well saying the same things before it was ever constructed. There was never much demand for the old one and there isn't for the new one.

That said the above are knowledge and art and cultural icons. They spread that gift. They inspire the gift of continued culture, knowledge, even science, if one tends to appreciate that gift.

For me there was few things more important than a Museum learning wise. It almost equated to school.

A high ticket cost arena doesn't really service any of that benefit.

 

[joestevens29]

My issue is why do arenas get targeted but not other publically funded venues? 41 Oiler games brings in far more people then most of these institutions but you never hear we got bent over spending 400 million on the Royal Alberta museum or 90 million on the art gallery.

A 2015 article suggests the gallery gets 97 visitors a day, assuming it operates 365 days a year thats 2 Oiler games...

Having said that I agree with its a waste not using the days the city is guaranteed but the administration is incompetent in just about everything they touch so not surprised.

All I keep hearing is the previous councils screwed around and things were ran properly throughout the City.

Really not see any solutions. All they do is identify issues.

 

[rboomercat90]

My issue is why do arenas get targeted but not other publically funded venues? 41 Oiler games brings in far more people then most of these institutions but you never hear we got bent over spending 400 million on the Royal Alberta museum or 90 million on the art gallery.

A 2015 article suggests the gallery gets 97 visitors a day, assuming it operates 365 days a year thats 2 Oiler games...

Having said that I agree with its a waste not using the days the city is guaranteed but the administration is incompetent in just about everything they touch so not surprised.

I think it’s as simple as a private citizen isn’t making millions of dollars every year on the museum or some other publicly funded venue off the backs of the tax payer.

 

[rboomercat90]

The RAM is provincial funded. The gift of a capitol city is usually having a Legislature or Provincial Museum or University as plums. So you take it.

Art Gallery I was opposed to as well saying the same things before it was ever constructed. There was never much demand for the old one and there isn't for the new one.

That said the above are knowledge and art and cultural icons. They spread that gift. They inspire the gift of continued culture, knowledge, even science, if one tends to appreciate that gift.

For me there was few things more important than a Museum learning wise. It almost equated to school.

A high ticket cost arena doesn't really service any of that benefit.

That museum is taking longer to open than the LRT did.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That museum is taking longer to open than the LRT did.

Yep, I've been highly critical of how long its taking. The NEW museum was supposed to be open EARLY 2017.

By the time its open the New RAM will be the old one...

 

[Cloned]

@Drivesaitl

There was always going to be a lull during this interphase period between the completion of the arena and before the rest of the ICE District is fully developed. I would expect once the commercial developments start filing in that the entire downtown area will be pretty bustling. The RAM is located fairly close to all that and I would expect the entire area to have a much busier feel to it.

My concern is that they've talked about redeveloping The Quarters for decades and aside from one private hotel development there, it's still a wasteland of unused potential. It's literally the first thing a lot of tourists and people see before even getting to the RAM and the ICE District, and it looks like a scene out of a 1970's exploitation movie.

 

[rboomercat90]

@Drivesaitl

There was always going to be a lull during this interphase period between the completion of the arena and before the rest of the ICE District is fully developed. I would expect once the commercial developments start filing in that the entire downtown area will be pretty bustling. The RAM is located fairly close to all that and I would expect the entire area to have a much busier feel to it.

My concern is that they've talked about redeveloping The Quarters for decades and aside from one private hotel development there, it's still a wasteland of unused potential. It's literally the first thing a lot of tourists and people see before even getting to the RAM and the ICE District, and it looks like a scene out of a 1970's exploitation movie.

I’ve always been sceptical about when the Quarters would get developed. I still think most of the optimism about that area was hoping the new arena would go there. When it went downtown everybody else pulled out. At least somebody took over that property on 95 street and Jasper Avenue and started developing it. That deep hole sat there for six years and was an embarrassing eyesore. Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s all that area gets for a long time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

@Drivesaitl

There was always going to be a lull during this interphase period between the completion of the arena and before the rest of the ICE District is fully developed. I would expect once the commercial developments start filing in that the entire downtown area will be pretty bustling. The RAM is located fairly close to all that and I would expect the entire area to have a much busier feel to it.

My concern is that they've talked about redeveloping The Quarters for decades and aside from one private hotel development there, it's still a wasteland of unused potential. It's literally the first thing a lot of tourists and people see before even getting to the RAM and the ICE District, and it looks like a scene out of a 1970's exploitation movie.

Quarters, theres been a ton of inertia, the GALLERIA project is dead, not much impetus in the area other than the nice Hyatt. I think they made a mistake. I think the Arena ought to have been situated in the Quarters just north of Jasper AVE. Not much there that bulldozers couldn't have cured..

The real weird thing is on another board someone is telling me the arena buzz is long over. I think they might be right. But how sad is it that theres no excitement for the relatively new arena and that its died out before whats left of the designs of ice district is even built out?

Keep in mind I've been hearing downtown revitilizing since the 70's. It never really happened. They're piling one public build edifice on another. Ironically this rebranding DT has been going on so long that the DT library is in its 4th remodeling, City Center mall has had around 3. We've had two different Art Galleries.. Its just endless.

The thing is this is it. Theres really hardly any other public builds they can do DT. its up to private sector now.

 

[rboomercat90]

Quarters, theres been a ton of inertia, the GALLERIA project is dead, not much impetus in the area other than the nice Hyatt. I think they made a mistake. I think the Arena ought to have been situated in the Quarters just north of Jasper AVE. Not much there that bulldozers couldn't have cured..

The real weird thing is on another board someone is telling me the arena buzz is long over. I think they might be right. But how sad is it that theres no excitement for the relatively new arena and that its died out before whats left of the designs of ice district is even built out?

Keep in mind I've been hearing downtown revitilizing since the 70's. It never really happened. They're piling one public build edifice on another. Ironically this rebranding DT has been going on so long that the DT library is in its 4th remodeling, City Center mall has had around 3. We've had two different Art Galleries.. Its just endless.

The thing is this is it. Theres really hardly any other public builds they can do DT. its up to private sector now.

They’ve chased everybody out of the downtown that doesn’t need to be there. Almost every road is blocked off and it’s impossible to get around if you’re not using Jasper Avenue or 104th Avenue. Pretty much everything in between from 98 st to 105 st is blocked off. They were up front about the length of the construction period of the Ice District but not so much with everything else they were planning. I can’t see how any business could be doing well downtown right now when it’s such a hassle to get to it. This has been going on for probably three years at least with at least another two to go. I’m sure the new business will do well when it’s all done but I wonder how many will die along the way.

 

[Cloned]

Quarters, theres been a ton of inertia, the GALLERIA project is dead, not much impetus in the area other than the nice Hyatt. I think they made a mistake. I think the Arena ought to have been situated in the Quarters just north of Jasper AVE. Not much there that bulldozers couldn't have cured..

The real weird thing is on another board someone is telling me the arena buzz is long over. I think they might be right. But how sad is it that theres no excitement for the relatively new arena and that its died out before whats left of the designs of ice district is even built out?

Keep in mind I've been hearing downtown revitilizing since the 70's. It never really happened. They're piling one public build edifice on another. Ironically this rebranding DT has been going on so long that the DT library is in its 4th remodeling, City Center mall has had around 3. We've had two different Art Galleries.. Its just endless.

The thing is this is it. Theres really hardly any other public builds they can do DT. its up to private sector now.

I have faith that the buzz will be back on once everything is fully developed. The buzz is there regardless during the winter/spring when the hockey season is on; it's the summer months that need help, and having a fully developed ICE district with lots of commercial areas within walking distance in a nicely designed area combined with nice weather SHOULD drive business and culture there.

It should be a damn nice area to be.

--

What I don't understand about The Quarters is that it wouldn't be hard to have something better looking. Literally almost anything else besides what currently exists there would be an improvement. Like I said, the area looks like something straight out of the 1970's, and not in the good historic sense. That adult video store that used to be there was like something out of a 1970's exploitation movie.

 

[joestevens29]

So if I read that article correctly the City never intended on using all the dates anyway. They also can't charge anything to off-set costs that they must cover. Does anyone know how much those costs are?

 

[joestevens29]

I think it’s as simple as a private citizen isn’t making millions of dollars every year on the museum or some other publicly funded venue off the backs of the tax payer.

Better than Northlands looking for handouts every year that would've ended up costs tax payers a helluva lot more.

 

[Gord]

speaking of the quarters, did you hear the Hyatt revoked
their branding affiliation with that filthy, poorly built hotel?

 

[Drivesaitl]

speaking of the quarters, did you hear the Hyatt revoked
their branding affiliation with that filthy, poorly built hotel?

I'm missing the news on this one. What are you referring to, The Quarters Hyatt?

edit, now got it.

unfortunate news. Was it poorly built or just problems springing up due to the mass of pigeons in the area. Pigeon poo and urine is famously corrosive. can basically eat right through roofing materials. Its basically natures way of destroying derelict structures. With a lot of those in the immediate area and where the pigeons came from.
DT has had an enormous pigeon problem for decades.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Broke down and bought Smashing Pumpkins tickets. I was humming and hawing. Saw them back in 96 0r 97 so didn't think there was any reason to go again. Not many people are but its so cheap and they're playing for 3hrs on all the dates and almost doing requests out there.

Sad thing is Corgan was right all those years ago when he said rock was dead. Its still dead.

SP were good until Adore album anyway...unfortunately they still play stuff after Melancholy album. never sure why.

Good thing Chamberlain and Iha are back and basically why I'm going. Corgan on his own wouldn't appeal as much.

Only around 4K tickets sold and they're almost giving them away. Wow, concert industry is dead too.

 

[rboomercat90]

I'm missing the news on this one. What are you referring to, The Quarters Hyatt?

edit, now got it.

unfortunate news. Was it poorly built or just problems springing up due to the mass of pigeons in the area. Pigeon poo and urine is famously corrosive. can basically eat right through roofing materials. Its basically natures way of destroying derelict structures. With a lot of those in the immediate area and where the pigeons came from.
DT has had an enormous pigeon problem for decades.

I think it’s a sewer problem. That area has stunk forever from about 95 street past 96 street right along Jasper Avenue. That’s the first thing I thought of when they announced they were building the hotel. I was wondering if they were going to be able to do anything about it. They built right in the middle of whatever that stench is and the smell is still there today.

 

[guymez]

Whats the deal with the alert icon only showing up when you are at the top of the main page?
Very annoying...why the change?

 

[McDNicks17]

Whats the deal with the alert icon only showing up when you are at the top of the main page?
Very annoying...why the change?

Seems like they've fixed it a bit.

My alerts button was hiding behind a whole slew of pointless links across the top the past few days.

 

[guymez]

Seems like they've fixed it a bit.

My alerts button was hiding behind a whole slew of pointless links across the top the past few days.

Yeah you're right...it seems much better now.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Glad I did decide to see the Smashing Pumpkins at fairly last minute. Tickets for two 90 bucks all in, for that we got Center DRL, fantastic seating, feels like a private box, a perfect view of stage, right in the path of the pulsing audio delivery in the best sound I have ever heard at Rogers Place.

This was the best concert I've seen probably since Pink Floyd in 94 at Commonwealth. This was that good. Even better than the Metallica show last year. Blew any U2 stadium show out of the water. Simply no other act I know of is trying to bring the production values and concert conception found last night. The experience was like a Led Zep concert or the Who. Ironically the man that 20yrs ago said rock was dead (and probably right) but on a better rock show than anybody is today. Corgan out did himself with this tour. 32 songs. Band played for 3hrs15minutes. NO BREAK or intermission save for 2 1 minute video introductions.

This was an actual conceptually produced integrated show, which barely happens anymore. Must have been 100's of hours of thought that went into this show which Billy Corgan does. But he's a rarity in the musical landscape now. The rare artist that is involved in every facet of his production and product, can play any instrument, record any track, do artwork, film, etc. Judging from 5K attendance his art just isn't appreciated as much anymore.

I'm wondering though if 20years of catalog doesn't get revisited more now as people are starting to do, that left the band in 98 after Adore came out. EVERY song last night, even the tracks I was thinking I might not like was simply incredible performed in concert. There was no weak number. Even the 3 covers were scintillating.

 

[oobga]

wrong thread