The Offseason Thread (Previously Retool vs Rebuild)

[Fro]

Literally, essentially everything.

Movement, positioning, glove/blocker, rebound control……you know ACTUAL SKILLS.

Just not factual things, like stats..got it

 

[Monk]

Just not factual things, like stats..got it

The team hates korpi and intentionally plays worse in front of him, can't trust the stats

 

[thebus88]

says the combative person who started with, "And I think you value your opinion more than you should, on many things."

Yes, to somebody (else) who (yes like me) likes to express their opinions as fact, while at the same time demeaning another persons opinion.

I was simply defending Boone Jenner, something ridiculous that needs to be done on this board consistently.

I believe my opinions are much closer to fact and I don’t make as much broad evaluations on so many players based on my personal “feelings”.

Nearly every player that I have bad mouthed over my time in this board, I have been vindicated after being attacked by many posters here that like to just go along with groupthink and treat this place more like Facebook than actual hockey discussion.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The more I see of the rumors of who's in on him, where he's rumored to go, the more convinced I am that we're going to deal Jones as a one year rental.

Nah, I think the team learned from Panarin/Bob that you can't go through too many seasons like that. Plus, this team isn't remotely set up for success, even if Jones were to stick around. Get a couple high picks and a prospect for him if you can.

 

[Crede777]

Nah, I think the team learned from Panarin/Bob that you can't go through too many seasons like that. Plus, this team isn't remotely set up for success, even if Jones were to stick around. Get a couple high picks and a prospect for him if you can.

If I understand @LoneFunyan correctly, they're saying that the Jackets are going to trade Jones away this offseason without an extension in place.

Regarding Korpi versus Elvis, I don't think there is a wrong answer here. I would demand more in return for Elvis, but both should be more than serviceable for the Jackets needs. Especially if they're going to rebuild this season.

 

[thebus88]

Just not factual things, like stats..got it

Do you believe his rate of shutouts will continue moving forward??

What would his numbers (that are NOT good) look like with a more sustainable amount of SO’s at this point in his career??

How much of an impact does a full team have on a goalie getting a shutout??

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Do you believe his rate of shutouts will continue moving forward??

What would his numbers (that are NOT good) look like with a more sustainable amount of SO’s at this point in his career??

How much of an impact does a full team have on a goalie getting a shutout??

This makes no sense. First of all, he did do that, so who am I to say he couldn’t again? Second, so would it have been better if he allowed only one goal those games since it’s more sustainable? He’d still have better conventional and advanced stats than Korpi.

You’re acting like those people that used the 16-game winning streak against CBJ in 2017. So would it have been better if the Jackets went 12-4 in that stretch instead because it’s more “sustainable”? They still would’ve finished with 100 points.

 

[NotWendell]

If were struggling this much with choice A or B, the answer must be C. None of the above.

 

[Hello Johnny]

I think they are basically equal. They just bring two different styles.

Korpi is usually calm, has great mechanics and positioning skills, is long and athletic and can bail the team out. Does anyone remember when he made a backside stick save with a wide open net like 3 or 4 games in a row this year? He's not perfect of course, but he has gotten hung out to dry quite a bit as well. I think he's a capable goalie on a playoff team. He was an All-Star not long ago.

Elvis is twitchy, great down low and in tight, and is also super athletic and can bail the team out. His highs are very high, but his lows can be pretty low. I've noticed, though, the team feeds off him and he can give them a jolt. I think they play with more passion with him in net. And he's a great ambassador for the club, and a personality you don't see often in the NHL.

Overall I think goaltending simply needs to be adequate, and I think you can win with either guy we have. We didn't give them the best chance this year to succeed with our play in front of them.

If Elvis gets you a significantly greater return, I hate to say it, but it might make sense to move him. Love the guy. I'd prefer to keep him because his energy is palpable.

Glad I'm not I'm charge.

 

[thebus88]

The team hates korpi and intentionally plays worse in front of him, can't trust the stats

Which goalie plays against tougher matchups/competition??

No possible way it’s 50/50 EVEN, right??

All the mathematician’s here and “advanced stats”, if it’s 51/49, that’s still not even.

So my question to many, which goalie plays against tougher competition??

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Which goalie plays against tougher matchups/competition??

No possible way it’s 50/50 EVEN, right??

All the mathematician’s here and “advanced stats”, if it’s 51/49, that’s still not even.

So my question to many, which goalie plays against tougher competition??

I have no idea. Do you know? Genuine question. Since you seem to just be assuming it’s Korpi. Does anyone actually know? And if it’s close, even if it’s slightly ahead for korpi, doesn’t the massive statistical difference between the two kinda signal Elvis is better?

 

[thebus88]

I have no idea. Do you know? Genuine question. Since you seem to just be assuming it’s Korpi. Does anyone actually know? And if it’s close, even if it’s slightly ahead for korpi, doesn’t the massive statistical difference between the two kinda signal Elvis is better?

My point is there are plenty of variables in the equation that are being either purposely ignored or not able to be quantified.

It’s clear to me that Joonas has gotten the bulk of tougher matchups (when healthy) and that the team has a huge impact on Elvis’ shutouts, that are not sustainable either way and will have an effect on what his “career numbers” look like in a very short time.

Not to mention, at the ACTUAL GOALIE POSITION, Korpisalo is better. It’s that simple.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Which goalie plays against tougher matchups/competition??

No possible way it’s 50/50 EVEN, right??

All the mathematician’s here and “advanced stats”, if it’s 51/49, that’s still not even.

So my question to many, which goalie plays against tougher competition??

Joonas played 25 of 33 games against playoff teams, 75.8%
Elvis played 22 of 28 games against playoff team, 78.6%

 

[DarkandStormy]

Since Elvis came into the league, he's T-8th in the entire NHL in terms of save % (min games: 20). Korpisalo ranks 53rd with a .903. Elvis is T-6th in # of shutouts (with 7). Korpisalo has had 2.

If you isolate it to when Elvis took over at the very end of calendar year 2019, Elvis has the 6th-best save % in the entire league with a .925 (you may recall his first couple months in North America did not go so well).

Now, sure, you can knock Elvis for inconsistency and there may be questions about his health, but only a troll can say he's not as good as Korpi. You might also make an argument about their respective cap hits and what the team is trying to accomplish in the short term.

Elvis has had seasons of .923 sv% and .916 sv%...both are better than anything Korpisalo has put up in the last 5 years.

 

[thebus88]

Elvis is…I've noticed, though, the team feeds off him and he can give them a jolt. I think they play with more passion with him in net.

This is something that is expressed by many as a “plus” that Elvis has over Joonas.

While it seems there has been plenty of “jolt” while Korpisalo has played (like THE PLAYOFFS) that seems to be ignored, I really question if this supposed jolt is because of “passion”, or something else….


Like f***ing anxiety.

 

[thebus88]

Elvis is twitchy

Best description of Elvis I’ve heard at this point.

Debate should start and end here.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Good lord .. why are we rehashing Elvis vs Korpi ? The 2 goalies aren’t remotely close in talent , stats , potential. Elvis has shown 2 yrs in a row that if the coach would only let him get consistent starts , he’s a dominant goalie . There is no decision to be made, unless the goal is to make sure we get a top 3 pick next yr , if that’s the case you go with Korpi and trade Elvis .
Korpi has a below 90% save 3 out of his 5 yrs in the league . He has a 2.90 career GAa. Both of those stats are middle of the road back up. Why are we having this conversation again ?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What would his numbers (that are NOT good) look like with a more sustainable amount of SO’s at this point in his career??

"Unsustainable"?

 

[thebus88]

Joonas played 25 of 33 games against playoff teams, 75.8%
Elvis played 22 of 28 games against playoff team, 78.6%

And which goalie played IN the playoffs??

I think it’s also time to point out Merzlikins is 27 years old and has played the equivalent of 75% of a single season of NHL play.

Some of you need to remember Steve Mason and remember some of the things said about his future.

Elvis isn’t some young developing goalie, and NHL shooters will have continued success against him moving forward, mark my words.

 

[KJ Dangler]

If were struggling this much with choice A or B, the answer must be C. None of the above.

Who said they are struggling ? Interviews JD has given since he was brought back are glowing regarding Elvis . Are we looking at a few writers throw junk out there , and then every other site regurgitates the same junk ? There is no gm out there that would think Korpi is the better goalie , hence why trade rumors focus on Elvis . After all it’s Columbus , and we are rumored to be trading a goalie , so clearly we will stick with the middle of the road back up , because that’s how Columbus operates .

 

[thebus88]

"Unsustainable"?

That’s the joke, but, I do think it’s clear that there is a disparity between his rate of shutouts and the quality of goaltender Merzlikins is.

And that the large amount of shutouts have too big of a statistical impact to focus on such “stats”.


Elvis has played 60 f***ing NHL games.

 

[Fro]

That’s the joke, but, I do think it’s clear that there is a disparity between his rate of shutouts and the quality of goaltender Merzlikins is.

And that the large amount of shutouts have too big of a statistical impact to focus on such “stats”.


Elvis has played 60 f***ing NHL games.

The problem, again, you have "feel" and "what you see" and no actual facts to back up your assumptions...and refuse to accept that

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Elvis has played 60 f***ing NHL games.

True. And after Joonas played 60 games, his stats fell from a save % of .910 to .901 the last 3 years.

Why keep playing the guy that is clearly regressing?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That’s the joke, but, I do think it’s clear that there is a disparity between his rate of shutouts and the quality of goaltender Merzlikins is.

And that the large amount of shutouts have too big of a statistical impact to focus on such “stats”.


Elvis has played 60 f***ing NHL games.

I agree and disagree with some of your stuff on this subtopic but it's off-topic for this thread so I'll leave it be. I really just wanted to poke you a bit.

 

[thebus88]

The problem, again, you have "feel" and "what you see" and no actual facts to back up your assumptions...and refuse to accept that

The issue is that these “stats” and “facts” change REGULARLY, as does the opinions of those who must FOLLOW such “facts”.

Reality and TRUTH does not change as quickly, however.

All different variables and the concepts of execution and chance completely ignored.

Players don’t get good, then bad one season, then good again the way people like to claim when simply looking at an athlete’s statistics.