The Offseason Thread (Previously Retool vs Rebuild)

[CBJWerenski8]

Did I miss something? Where is this Marner talk coming from ?

 

[majormajor]

Tend to agree with this. Rebuilding teams don't splash out $9M per on UFAs. If this is truly a "down to the studs" rebuild, let's do it right. Signing Hamilton indicates we're ok continuing to pick in the 15-20 range every year.

You can finish at the bottom and still not draft a better player than Hamilton. That's where I make a distinction - short termist moves to get good but not elite players might not be wise at this moment, but it's hard enough to get elite talent, you have to swing whenever there's a chance.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Rumors are getting crazy ..

 

[CBJ goalie]

Have to wonder if Hoffman plays in our top 6.... Holy crap on that last goal ...

Thanks for the link to the highlights.

One thing I noticed is he was fed a lot of great passes, so CBJ would need someone to be a set up man for him.
But he finds open spaces, and gets that shot of.

Now I have to go rest my eyes after seeing those colourful uniforms.

 

[Forepar]

If you truly believe that, then whats the point in continuing to spin your wheels? Sell and move the franchise if they're unable or unwilling to keep their talent. Because even if we did build through the draft and developed a star, by your own statement, he'd just walk away when he could. That's not healthy for the franchise or the NHL. It's a waste of time.

Now I don't agree with it. I think there's something wrong in the organization that is turning players away. It's different in the case of Panarin or Duchene, who wanted to play in a big market, but for the Bobrovsky's, Anderson's, PLD's, and now Jones something is amiss.

Until Jones, I could (and did) explain away the other departures without much worry. Jones' statement changed my perception.
I agree with you on Panarin and Duchene - and still do.

I still think passing on Bobrovsky was a wise move then and looks even better in the rear-view mirror. He wanted term and $$$. My understanding is that Jarmo offered him significant $ but not $10M and not for 7-8 years. So I didn't and still don't put Bob in the category that suggests something is amiss within the organization.

I thought the same of Anderson. Too much term. The PLD situation troubled me, but the group seemed to be on the same page. However, with Jones now in effect asking out, that makes me re-visit the Anderson and PLD departures. I get why Jarmo would not want to offer Anderson 7 years. And yet the stories are that ultimately the contract MTL came up with was eerily close to what the CBJ offered, in dollars and term. And the reasons for PLD's requested departure remain a mystery.

Maybe I am blind, stupid, too loyal, etc. but I have refused to admit that Torts was the reason. PLD and Anderson have denied that Torts was the issue - but maybe he was. Or maybe it was Jarmo's "hammer." Maybe it was a combination of both.
Or maybe there is something else behind Door #3 that we we don't know about that poisoned the waters in the past 12 months. Because prior to Anderson's negotiation, this looked like a happy, committed bunch, that played hard for one another, over-achieved for the most part, with Torts the lightning rod (for them and for the media) that made for great relationships among the players.

I get that CBJ will fight the same struggles as some other smaller market US teams - but other than Buffalo, Arizona and Minnesota, the other small market franchises seem to have had at least some level of "star-attraction" at least at times. Maybe those were trades and no subsequent renewals (I have not done the deep dive on contract status), but Dallas, St. Louis, San Jose, and what appears to be the opening of the window for Carolina show that some high-end stars will play in small markets. CBJ has generally spent to the cap, so its not a money issue per se.

Confounding...

 

[majormajor]

Until Jones, I could (and did) explain away the other departures without much worry. Jones' statement changed my perception.
I agree with you on Panarin and Duchene - and still do.

I still think passing on Bobrovsky was a wise move then and looks even better in the rear-view mirror. He wanted term and $$$. My understanding is that Jarmo offered him significant $ but not $10M and not for 7-8 years. So I didn't and still don't put Bob in the category that suggests something is amiss within the organization.

I thought the same of Anderson. Too much term. The PLD situation troubled me, but the group seemed to be on the same page. However, with Jones now in effect asking out, that makes me re-visit the Anderson and PLD departures. I get why Jarmo would not want to offer Anderson 7 years. And yet the stories are that ultimately the contract MTL came up with was eerily close to what the CBJ offered, in dollars and term. And the reasons for PLD's requested departure remain a mystery.

Maybe I am blind, stupid, too loyal, etc. but I have refused to admit that Torts was the reason. PLD and Anderson have denied that Torts was the issue - but maybe he was. Or maybe it was Jarmo's "hammer." Maybe it was a combination of both.
Or maybe there is something else behind Door #3 that we we don't know about that poisoned the waters in the past 12 months. Because prior to Anderson's negotiation, this looked like a happy, committed bunch, that played hard for one another, over-achieved for the most part, with Torts the lightning rod (for them and for the media) that made for great relationships among the players.

I get that CBJ will fight the same struggles as some other smaller market US teams - but other than Buffalo, Arizona and Minnesota, the other small market franchises seem to have had at least some level of "star-attraction" at least at times. Maybe those were trades and no subsequent renewals (I have not done the deep dive on contract status), but Dallas, St. Louis, San Jose, and what appears to be the opening of the window for Carolina show that some high-end stars will play in small markets. CBJ has generally spent to the cap, so its not a money issue per se.

Confounding...

FWIW Anderson's ask was $5.5m x 7, Jarmo said no, Bergevin said yes. It might just be that simple.

Jones' situation is potentially the one that requires the least amount of explanation. Impending UFA from a team that just had a brutally awful season and has turned over most of its roster. What do you expect?

 

[Fro]

Rumors are getting crazy ..

Girard, 1st, rights to Landy?

 

[punk_o_holic]

Girard, 1st, rights to Landy?

Who's better, Toews or Girard? If Toews, I would try for him instead. But then again, he's 27, while Girard is only 23. Also I prefer to have a signed Landeskog rather than his rights. Maybe deal would be based on if both Landeskog and Jones agrees to a new deal with their new team.

 

[punk_o_holic]

Confirmation from both teams.

Would he be a UFA after this deal or RFA? If UFA, hopefully he's legit and Columbus has another trade chip. Or if he's legit, hopefully Nash who was a former teammate can convince him to sign a multi year deal with Columbus/Hoffmann doesn't want to move his family again so he settles in nicely in Columbus.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Would he be a UFA after this deal or RFA? If UFA, hopefully he's legit and Columbus has another trade chip. Or if he's legit, hopefully Nash who was a former teammate can convince him to sign a multi year deal with Columbus/Hoffmann doesn't want to move his family again so he settles in nicely in Columbus.

Due to his age, I believe he’ll be a UFA. Like Lehtonen and his situation

 

[majormajor]

Who's better, Toews or Girard? If Toews, I would try for him instead. But then again, he's 27, while Girard is only 23. Also I prefer to have a signed Landeskog rather than his rights. Maybe deal would be based on if both Landeskog and Jones agrees to a new deal with their new team.

In the regular season both were excellent top pair caliber players, while Girard was bad in the playoffs and Toews was just okayish. The bigger difference from CBJ perspective is that Girard is locked up for six years (at $5m per) while Toews is locked up for three years (at $4m per). That probably makes Girard more valuable to the Jackets.

 

[Hinterland]

Would he be a UFA after this deal or RFA? If UFA, hopefully he's legit and Columbus has another trade chip. Or if he's legit, hopefully Nash who was a former teammate can convince him to sign a multi year deal with Columbus/Hoffmann doesn't want to move his family again so he settles in nicely in Columbus.

I think it would be a wise decision to stay if he's offered a better contract by the Bluejackets. Even if he does well, one good season isn't gonna earn you a big contract...especially not with the flat cap. Also, the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. A few years ago, Damien Brunner played a fair regular season and was fantastic in the playoffs. He then decided to reject the Redwings offer but ended up having to sign in New Jersey for less. New Jersey was a very old team coached by Peter DeBoer and Brunner never really fit there while with the Redwings he got lots of quality ice time either with Datsyuk/Zetterberg or on a very offensive 3rd line with players like Nyquist. Rumor is saying that it wasn't about the money but about getting away from Babcock and sadly, that's probably true. Brunner's effort level was never anywhere near Hofmann's.

Anyway, I'm not Hofmann but I'd stay if I were him. A probably rebuilding Bluejackets team isn't a bad landing spot for a player like him. If he does well, he should get ice time. If the Bluejackets are trying to get younger and faster, that should suit him. Merzlikins and Kukan are former teammates and so is Rick Nash. The Bluejackets also still hold the rights of Thurkauf (who was also on Zug's title winning team) and Berni, two more of his countrymen.

Could be worse. Also, he never signed with the Canes but did so instantly when the Bluejackets traded for him. Could be just the one way but maybe it's not just that. The Bluejackets didn't take much of a risk but still showed belief in him by trading a pick and offering a one way deal. Has to count for something.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I was a Day 1 Season Ticket Holder. As a souvenir, I still have my PSL document. I stopped buying season tickets after year 10, but I've remained a fan and gone to several games each season except last season(19-20) and this one. I've developed the belief the problem with the Jackets is ownership.

The Jackets have never built a truly competitive team that was a Cup contender for more than a year or maybe two in their history. They've changed coaches often, they've changed GMs, even Presidents. While I think great franchises are rare, I think their is a commonality among bad franchises in almost every sport, ownership. Charles Wang, Randy Lerner, Paul Brown, George Gillette, Steve Belkin, Eugene Melnyk, Oren Koules/Len Barrie, Terry Pegula etc.

They cut corners, they make bad hires and don't give them the tools to succeed. They don't provide the vision and leadership that makes in demand employees and players want to be there and buy in to the organization's vision. Just look at the impact Jeff Vinik, Mark Chipman, Vinnie Viola, Jon Ledecky and Scott Malkin have had turning the dumpster fires in Tampa, Atlanta, Florida and the Islanders into solid franchises. Almost all replaced the front office with established professionals like Yzerman, Lamoriello, and Cheveldayoff.


Until the Jackets are truly led by an inspirational leader, I think we will rinse and repeat. I have some hope John Davidson can right the ship, but he's likely just a stopgap.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

We don't have one player that will get us on TV.

There's not many players in the league that have that pull and Laine doesn't have it, not outside of Finland.

I say you keep Elvis and start marketing the crap out of him and maybe in a couple years he'll have some pull. I remember as a kid most of my friends had a favorite hockey player, and it was often a charismatic goalie.

Ron Hextall turned my wife into a passionate hockey fan.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

You're assuming everybody's going to leave. This is a defeatist mentality. Try to "preempt" it and you'll only assure it.

I read @FinBlue 's post differently than it looks like you did. I think he means get rid of players who don't want to be here and thus are bad locker room guys: Carter, Foote, PLD, etc. We don't know the extent of it. Was Jones a bad locker room guy last season? How about Duchene when he was here? Why didn't they even offer him an extension? Was he a negative influence? [MOD]

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Ron Hextall turned my wife into a passionate hockey fan.

Were you able to reverse the spell?

 

[EDM]

Duchene was not offered a contract because of Jarmo’s egomaniacal belief that he had drafted up & coming superstars in Tex & Bemstrum.

Beyond that I thin TTC raises a point that is worth further discussion. That point focuses upon the attitude of management toward the players. I mean, let’s face it, if Jarmo is so arrogant as to publicly boast about his “we have the hammer and we are going to use it” approach, you have to wonder about how insufferable he is in private negotiations. I wonder if Jones, as he looked around the room, realized that while in the current situation he had the upper hand, he could see that the moment that he lost leverage, the FO would slit his throat like they did to others like Anderson and Joey. Now, I never liked Johansonand thought he was a last prick, but even I was stunned when Davidson took the podium to denounce Joey in rather personal terms. Then you get Jarmo with his “hammer”. Add to that the comments made by the 3 departed Jackers who were interviewed by Porty where the suggestion was made that while management demanded loyalty from the players, it was not reciprocated. And just maybe there realistically an issue about the FO’s attitude toward their own players.

 

[Monk]

Duchene was not offered a contract because of Jarmo’s egomaniacal belief that he had drafted up & coming superstars in Tex & Bemstrum.

Or he decided Duchene wasn't a core player to build around, especially not with his price tag - and it increasingly looks to me like he was right.

Or he had a frank conversation with him in which Duchene/his agent told him he was going to Nashville.

Or both or something else.

 

[EDM]

And let’s not leave the fans out of the equation. People write on this board how they want players who “want to be here”. But that is questionable at best. Look how many people are clamoring to get rid of Atkinson even though he clearly is committed to the franchise and the city. Same with Savard who also repeatedly stated how much he enjoyed living and playing here. Lots of fans are ready to dump Boone although he also seems to bleed “Blue Jackets blue” blood. There are people on this Board who are ready to promote Bemstrum over Atkinson to the top line even though Bemstrum is limited to one good game so far in his NHL career.

Ok, enough for my grumblings.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Scratch Eichel and Reinhart

 

[Fro]

While I don't expect a move for Eichel, I'm taking any Friedman report the last 2 years with a huge grain of salt...especially with Jarmo, we've seen that he let's nearly nothing leak

 

[EDM]

I am not going to get into a debate over Duchene. But it is clear from multiple reports that Jarmo had no discussions at all with Duchene.

 

[Monk]

I am not going to get into a debate over Duchene. But it is clear from multiple reports that Jarmo had no discussions at all with Duchene.

Good, I won't either. There is zero reason to have angst over Duchene signing elsewhere.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

While I don't expect a move for Eichel, I'm taking any Friedman report the last 2 years with a huge grain of salt...especially with Jarmo, we've seen that he let's nearly nothing leak

Aside from Panarin, Bob, PLD wanting out. Larsen being the favorite for the job. Tortorella wanting to move on before the season, not wanting to draft Puljujarvi, going off the board at the draft last year, et al.