Competing aside, they're at least fun to watch right now. If the team is going to stumble through a couple of years of wilderness, I'd rather watch exciting players like Matthews, Marner and Nylander, than mediocre, replacement level junk like Nielsen, Abdelkader and Helm. Then again, it's not like the team chooses to play the exciting youth it does have over bad-to-awful veterans, so who knows.
The Official Tank Thread III
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
Competing aside, they're at least fun to watch right now. If the team is going to stumble through a couple of years of wilderness, I'd rather watch exciting players like Matthews, Marner and Nylander, than mediocre, replacement level junk like Nielsen, Abdelkader and Helm. Then again, it's not like the team chooses to play the exciting youth it does have over bad-to-awful veterans, so who knows.
Interestingly I heard Lebrun talking about them on TSN1260. I'm paraphrasing but he made a point to give praise to their veterans (Kadri, JVR, Polak, etc.). He specifically added that the kids wouldn't have been as impactful without the balance of these veterans.
Depending on how Mantha/Larkin/Svechnikov/2017 & 2018 Drafts play out Detroit could be well positioned for a similar rebound.
ArGarBarGar
What do we want!? Unfair!
- Sep 8, 2008
- 44,035
- 11,731
They were lucky with their star players all being healthy and hitting their projected marks in production. Could see them improve but they could also fall back a bit or stay stagnant.
They have set themselves up well, at least. By the way what qualifies as a successful rebuild?
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
Detroit doesn't have anyone anywhere near Nylander or Matthews. And no centers.
No disputing the no centers, but he did say 2018 draft. A Dahlin might not be a Matthews, but I think it'd be just as good, in terms of rebounding, especially if the 2017 draft gets us someone who can play C.
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
But Holland has already said there is no rebuild happening. I take him at his word; I expect to finish out of the top 10 next year. Holland gonna Holland.
I dunno - I mean, yeah, he said that, but I don't think the team is really that far from a bottom 5 finish. It'd be easy to play what-if either way, I think: if Howard and Vanek had been healthier, the team is in the running for the postseason/if Z regresses at all and the team isn't unconscious in the shootout, the team is in the running for 1st overall. I don't think the second is any more impossible than the first, whatever Holland tries to do (over the next season, that is).
And I'd argue that, based on general player development in Detroit, it's unreasonable to expect Larkin, Mantha or AA to improve more than slightly into next season, which is what a lot of the 'non-bottom 10' improvement would have to be based on, given the 'quality' of the rest of the roster.
Marky9er
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2008
- 7,476
- 729
Kadri is only 26, too. Looking like a great pick, seems like yesterday I was watching that draft and Bryan Murray was trying to trade up to that spot on live TV.
He was quite the project for them though. Good player. One of those annoying guys to play against but love to have on your team. Similar to Marchand in that regard.
Pavels Dog
Registered User
If the expectation is that the team is bad and rebuilding then no, the GM shouldn't be fired if the team is bad. But then expectations are more about improving the team, and if that takes too long then the GM is often fired.
Expectations the last few years have definitely been more about rebuilding or re-tooling, but as an actual playoff team still riding the last legs of the old core the expectations haven't been that Holland should be finding superstars in the draft.
Now with missing the playoffs and getting a top 10 pick, expectations become higher on Holland to start finding the players that will bring Detroit success again. 1 or 2 more years out of the playoffs and I'm sure the talk about Holland getting the boot will start heating up for real.
I think he deserves a little time though, let's see what he does the first time he's out of the playoffs and the first time he gets a top 10 pick.
Not sure that fits Holland's profile. He likes drafting players that have upside but require development time. He likes overripening prospects. He has tons of patience (More than any fan) and has rarely done the massive all-in moves that is the true mark of a GM wanting to win-now.
He doesn't seem to want to build a losing team, but I simply can't hold that against someone in the business of sports.
Our chances for a bottom give finish are slim next year
Vegas
Vancouver
New Jersey
Colorado
Arizona
Are all almost certain to be worse than us
We would need to sell roster players for picks starting this June to crack that list and based on Holland track record he is more likely to try and add veterans.
I expect a 7-12 draft pick next season.
Vegas
Vancouver
New Jersey
Colorado
Arizona
Are all almost certain to be worse than us
We would need to sell roster players for picks starting this June to crack that list and based on Holland track record he is more likely to try and add veterans.
I expect a 7-12 draft pick next season.
Eh, I disagree. I think to much of this depends on the expansion draft and moves leading up. I think this will be an exciting off season for the NHL. Maybe not Detroit...but a lot of bigger moves to be had.
So you think those five teams will all get substantially better this off-season?
I respectively disagree
WE need to get substantially better to finish in the 7-12 range. 24 ROW is putrid. Only Colorado was worse (we tied with AZ).
Imagine if we didn't have howard.... might have been the second worst team in hockey.
Both Howard (when healthy) and Zetterberg had fantastic years. I expected the real fall to happen when Zetterberg stopped being a top line player. But he kept his end of the bargain this season, no doubt.
HisNoodliness
The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
I think those teams will be about the same but I think we will get worse. There's no way we're surviving regilation for that many OTs and SOs to arbitrarily increase our point totals next year. Furthermore Z carried the team hard this season and he'll be one year older. Even if the kids take a step they can't carry us like that and it's still the worst D in the NHL. I expect a bottom 5 finish. I guess we will see. It depends a lot on how the off-season goes.
The reason(s) why I dont think we will be worse then the five teams I mentioned is because
one is an expansion team,
two are actively tanking/will be(arizona and vancouver)
one is NJ and whom are significantly worse then we're when comparing rosters and
the other is Colorado(in complete turmoil, will likely trade duchene and possibly lando)
while i expect zetterberg to regree, i expect better years from tatar, nyquist, larkin, and nielsen and moreso, I expect KH to try and sign/trade for immediate help(which wont be enough but to achieve a worst draft spot)
one is an expansion team,
two are actively tanking/will be(arizona and vancouver)
one is NJ and whom are significantly worse then we're when comparing rosters and
the other is Colorado(in complete turmoil, will likely trade duchene and possibly lando)
while i expect zetterberg to regree, i expect better years from tatar, nyquist, larkin, and nielsen and moreso, I expect KH to try and sign/trade for immediate help(which wont be enough but to achieve a worst draft spot)
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
- 11,001
- 8,753
I'd sooner expect a rookie like Patrick or Hischier to surprise everybody, and help add 15 points to the season total of a Vancouver or Arizona, than expect the Nielsens and Nyquists of the world to help Detroit improve anywhere near that much.
Barring a phenomenon, the Wings are a bottom 5-7 team next year.
Barring a phenomenon, the Wings are a bottom 5-7 team next year.
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Zetterberg might not be as good, but you should hope Larkin and Mantha improve. Not for the standings sake, but for the fact you want your kids to improve.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
- Jul 10, 2014
- 11,001
- 8,753
I think they both will improve, but I'm not convinced that either one is anything more than the next Nyquist or Tatar...neither of which, even at their best, really can carry a team.
I think it's going to take a truly special player, or a large handful of Larkins and Manthas, to really make a difference on this roster.
theD86
Winging it
After Vegas takes Howard and we're looking at a Mrazek - Coreau tandem, the Red Wings are going to be a ton worse.
Of course you hope they improve, but there's precious little in 'recent' Wings development history to suggest that they will.
Why would you expect Nielsen to improve? 32 year olds are, typically, what they are. Except when they're Zetterberg, and Nielsen is certainly not Zetterberg.
Because Holland will fix on the fly
He'll certainly try to fix it on the fly. But he did that last year and the team was terrible.
In a boat full of self-made holes, he's only got so many old, rotten corks to try to plug them with.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
GDT: [SCP24 RD1 GM3] Dallas Stars @ Vegas Golden Knights - 9:30PM CT (BSSW)- Latest: Troy McClure
-
-
Upcoming events
-
-
GAME 7 - Ocelari Trinec @ HC Dynamo Pardubice - Series tied 3-3.Wagers: 3Staked: $219.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-