The no man's land

[Legend123]

11 picks in the top 60 in three years. 7 picks in the first round since 2017.

Like jesus, thats doing **** the right way.

Decimating the roster can have serious long term consequences

 

[Mrb1p]

Decimating the roster can have serious long term consequences

Like winning a stanley cup.

 

[Lebowski]

Petry could also be moved next year.

Being an expiring contract doesn't seem to have hurt Patches' value all that much.

I also wouldn't be against re-signing him if it came down to that.

At the end of the day, it's just not realistic to expect him to be moved given the current position of the team. It's a move I'd probably do if I were playing EHM, but in the real world I just can't imagine any GM entertaining the idea.

 

[Legend123]

Like winning a stanley cup.

Unlikely. Mire likely all the picks end up busting

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Decimating the roster can have serious long term consequences

I can bet you what you want (sportsbook) that NY will be back in full contention in under 5 years.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I can bet you what you want (sportsbook) that NY will be back in full contention in under 5 years.

The Rangers? Full contention in 5 years? If they are in full contention in 5 years, so are the Habs.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The Rangers? Full contention in 5 years? If they are in full contention in 5 years, so are the Habs.

For the Habs it depends. I have more confidence in NY because they actually take a direction full on instead of tiptoeing between the two. They've done this twice now. It will pay off big time. Habs have done it once and it wasn't as directed and intended, and we got luckier with the lottery. NY will also have a 3rd year of multiple top 90 picks, past next draft. They are putting the odds on their side when it comes to acquiring vast amounts of free assets. With this mindset in mind, you just need to make sure to draft well and develop well, which NY hasnt been bad at, just that they've spent close to 20 years almost never drafting top 10. After Detroit, NY is the team with the least draft power (remember that one?) In the past 15-20 years.

Yes Montreal could also make it, I just feel that in the long run, this tiptoeing will cost us what could've been an even better asset pool.

 

[Habs Halifax]

For the Habs it depends. I have more confidence in NY because they actually take a direction full on instead of tiptoeing between the two. They've done this twice now. It will pay off big time. Habs have done it once and it wasn't as directed and intended, and we got luckier with the lottery. NY will also have a 3rd year of multiple top 90 picks, past next draft. They are putting the odds on their side when it comes to acquiring vast amounts of free assets. With this mindset in mind, you just need to make sure to draft well and develop well, which NY hasnt been bad at, just that they've spent close to 20 years almost never drafting top 10. After Detroit, NY is the team with the least draft power (remember that one?) In the past 15-20 years.

Yes Montreal could also make it, I just feel that in the long run, this tiptoeing will cost us what could've been an even better asset pool.

What does the Rangers have that we don't have? Are you saying they get more top 10 picks in the next few years vs us and this is the reason why they will contend where we may or may not?

I think the Habs have a critical 2.2 year span. We get to see who we want to keep from Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault and we also get to see how good our prospects are.

The important ingredient here is can we add to what we have now? Replacing Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault won't be easy. And selling them for futures does not return us grade A+ prospects. Not many GM's are willing to trade 1st and/or grade A prospects. It's becoming very rare.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What does the Rangers have that we don't have? Are you saying they get more top 10 picks in the next few years vs us and this is the reason why they will contend where we may or may not?

I think the Habs have a critical 2.2 year span. We get to see who we want to keep from Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault and we also get to see how good our prospects are.

The important ingredient here is can we add to what we have now? Replacing Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault won't be easy. And selling them for futures does not return us grade A+ prospects. Not many GM's are willing to trade 1st and/or grade A prospects. It's becoming very rare.

Instand TLTQ reply!

Just kiddin

Listen, im talking of degrees here. We're already a bit further ahead, but we also have some aging players, so what im saying is that I wish we would've gone a little further, not to go wholesale here, like NY, but to at least start unloading one of the oldest. Hey, maybe it's still in the works. Who knows how this season and (maybe) playoffs will will turn out. A quick elimination, or worst, could re-prioritize towards selling one of Weber or Petry and possibly one of the older wingers.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Instand TLTQ reply!

Just kiddin

Listen, im talking of degrees here. We're already a bit further ahead, but we also have some aging players, so what im saying is that I wish we would've gone a little further, not to go wholesale here, like NY, but to at least start unloading one of the oldest. Hey, maybe it's still in the works. Who knows how this season and (maybe) playoffs will will turn out. A quick elimination, or worst, could re-prioritize towards selling one of Weber or Petry and possibly one of the older wingers.

Some aging players? Like Weber? Who else? Price and Petry? We are not a aging team. Very far from it. Weber is with us for 2 or 4 more seasons after this season. Just depends on if we protect him or not over Petry, Juulsen, Mete, Fleury in the expansion draft. We would be protecting him for 2 seasons at age 36 and 37 and might not be the smart plan.

Price and Petry are 31. In 5 years they will be 35. Do you think the Sharks should rebuild?
- Thorton is 39
- Pavelski is 34
- Burns is 33
- MEV is 31
- Couture is 29
- Jones is 29.

Why are we in trouble or have aging players?
- Weber is 33
- Price is 31
- Petry is 31
- Byron is 29
- Tatar is 28
- Gallagher is 26

The only significant piece we lose to age is Weber in 5 years. And our prospect pool/youth is arguably stronger vs the Rangers.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Some aging players? Like Weber? Who else? Price and Petry? We are not a aging team. Very far from it. Weber is with us for 2 or 4 more seasons after this season. Just depends on if we protect him or not over Petry, Juulsen, Mete, Fleury in the expansion draft. We would be protecting him for 2 seasons at age 36 and 37 and might not be the smart plan.

Price and Petry are 31. In 5 years they will be 35. Do you think the Sharks should rebuild?
- Thorton is 39
- Pavelski is 34
- Burns is 33
- MEV is 31
- Couture is 29
- Jones is 29.

Why are we in trouble or have aging players?
- Weber is 33
- Price is 31
- Petry is 31
- Byron is 29
- Tatar is 28
- Gallagher is 26

The only significant piece we lose to age is Weber in 5 years. And our prospect pool/youth is arguably stronger vs the Rangers.

We'll lose or overpay Petry in 2 years from now. By that time, Weber will be 35. Among our prospects you hold up high, we have 3 right handed defensemen. You can't be telling me on one hand that our prospect pool is that good and on the other hand not recognizing the possible quagmire it will create on the right side and loss of value if we wait too long.

NY is rightfully being more agressive because they have further to catch on. All im telling you is that we should be pushing a bit further than we have, because if we don't, NY's agressiveness in rebuilding might make them catch up and surpass the Habs if they keep tiptoeing instead of being a bit more agressive.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We'll lose or overpay Petry in 2 years from now. By that time, Weber will be 35. Among our prospects you hold up high, we have 3 right handed defensemen. You can't be telling me on one hand that our prospect pool is that good and on the other hand not recognizing the possible quagmire it will create on the right side and loss of value if we wait too long.

NY is rightfully being more agressive because they have further to catch on. All im telling you is that we should be pushing a bit further than we have, because if we don't, NY's agressiveness in rebuilding might make them catch up and surpass the Habs if they keep tiptoeing instead of being a bit more agressive.

It's not easy to determine what direction we should take. I just don't agree that the Rangers will be this cup contending team in 5 years. For every success story, there is several unsuccessful stories.

Lets look at the youth primarily: Kotkaniemi, Domi, Drouin, Mete, Lehkonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, Poehling, Romanov, Primeau, Suzuki, Ylonen, Ikonen, etc. Then add what we get in the next few draft years. Regardless of Weber, Price, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Byron, we still have something to build on in terms of youth.

I would be using some of our grade A prospects and picks to get impact players with term. Just like how the Knights just did with Stone. My plan would be to try to win now and later. It's very possible IMO.

 

[Legend123]

I can bet you what you want (sportsbook) that NY will be back in full contention in under 5 years.

Thats à lot of years lol

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's not easy to determine what direction we should take. I just don't agree that the Rangers will be this cup contending team in 5 years. For every success story, there is several unsuccessful stories.

Lets look at the youth primarily: Kotkaniemi, Domi, Drouin, Mete, Lehkonen, Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, Poehling, Romanov, Primeau, Suzuki, Ylonen, Ikonen, etc. Then add what we get in the next few draft years. Regardless of Weber, Price, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, Byron, we still have something to build on in terms of youth.

I would be using some of our grade A prospects and picks to get impact players with term. Just like how the Knights just did with Stone. My plan would be to try to win now and later. It's very possible IMO.

There is no more obvious case than what to do with Petry. He's a 31 year old career 3-4 defenseman coming off of 2 back to back career years. His value will never be higher than it is currently. The only reason we can't bank it yet is that we literally don't have enough warm NHL bodies. But it must be cashed in or it will wither into nothingness.

Likewise for Weber, only his value isn't at an apex right now, and he's our captain so we're pretty much guaranteed to watch his value get worn down by the sands of time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There is no more obvious case than what to do with Petry. He's a 31 year old career 3-4 defenseman coming off of 2 back to back career years. His value will never be higher than it is currently. The only reason we can't bank it yet is that we literally don't have enough warm NHL bodies. But it must be cashed in or it will wither into nothingness.

Likewise for Weber, only his value isn't at an apex right now, and he's our captain so we're pretty much guaranteed to watch his value get worn down by the sands of time.

Works if you plan on tanking and ignoring the Weber window I guess.

I'm open for trading any of Weber, Petry, Gallagher, Tatar... right now today! But it depends on what the return is though. Best we could get from Patch was a 2nd, Suzuki, and Tatar who was considered a cap dump at the time of the trade.

Personally, I'm OK with going down the road with what we have (maybe adding Duchene this July) and testing out our youth in the next 2 seasons after this year. Then we take a deep breath at the 2021 deadline and see where we stand.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Works if you plan on tanking and ignoring the Weber window I guess.

Lol, there's no such thing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lol, there's no such thing.

Yes there is. It's now till 2021. In 2021/2022 he turns 36 and his contract is designed for him to retire at age 36 or 37. I was never concerned with Weber until he got past 35. Said this from day one of the trade.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yes there is. It's now till 2021. In 2021/2022 he turns 36 and his contract is designed for him to retire at age 36 or 37. I was never concerned with Weber until he got past 35. Said this from day one of the trade.

Yeah, those numbers are cute but they don't mean that we have a ''window.'' That's more like a timer on a bomb.

 

[Sorinth]

What does the Rangers have that we don't have? Are you saying they get more top 10 picks in the next few years vs us and this is the reason why they will contend where we may or may not?

Well they had 2 1st round picks in 2017, 3 1st round picks in 2018, and have potentially 4 1st round picks in 2019. So in a 3 year span they could end up with 9 first round picks, 2 were top-10 picks, and this years will likely be one as well.

So if all goes right for them they'll have 3 top-10 picks, and 6 other first round picks. Under Bergevin we've never had a draft with mutliple 1st round picks.

 

[cphabs]

Well they had 2 1st round picks in 2017, 3 1st round picks in 2018, and have potentially 4 1st round picks in 2019. So in a 3 year span they could end up with 9 first round picks, 2 were top-10 picks, and this years will likely be one as well.

So if all goes right for them they'll have 3 top-10 picks, and 6 other first round picks. Under Bergevin we've never had a draft with mutliple 1st round picks.

Rangers have realized it is all about draft picks and player development. Good for them! Us? Maybe in 2028 we’ll get it. In any case, I like that we didn’t touch any of our prospects or picks at the deadline.
I have a feeling we will make some moves at the draft table. Me? I’d move a few vets for possible 1st rounders that are lottery eligible. Easier said than done but we are not going anywhere with our current setup.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Thats à lot of years lol

I am conditionned to think in 5 year terms! Lol

 

[mariolemieux66]

Well they had 2 1st round picks in 2017, 3 1st round picks in 2018, and have potentially 4 1st round picks in 2019. So in a 3 year span they could end up with 9 first round picks, 2 were top-10 picks, and this years will likely be one as well.

So if all goes right for them they'll have 3 top-10 picks, and 6 other first round picks. Under Bergevin we've never had a draft with mutliple 1st round picks.

Also, free agents are more attracted to playing in New York than Montreal. It's easier to fill a void for them than it is for us.

 

[Pat Riot]

What does the Rangers have that we don't have?

The ability to attract and sign high profile FA.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The ability to attract and sign high profile FA.

I think how a team is trending plays a huge factor. And I also think there are a lot of Ontario boys who prefer not to sign with us as UFA's. The only big name I can think about is Cammy. Would Duchene consider signing with us? I hear that he cheered for the Habs as a kid but not sure how true this is.

I'm trying to remember what big names the Rangers signed as UFA's over the years? Do you remember off hand?

 

[Pat Riot]

I think how a team is trending plays a huge factor. And I also think there are a lot of Ontario boys who prefer not to sign with us as UFA's. The only big name I can think about is Cammy. Would Duchene consider signing with us? I hear that he cheered for the Habs as a kid but not sure how true this is.

I'm trying to remember what big names the Rangers signed as UFA's over the years? Do you remember off hand?

NY is a more sought destination city by the players than Mtl, when they hit free agency, for various reasons.