The no man's land

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Pat Riot

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Sep 30, 2017
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Here we are folks, at the crossroads of the season. Half of it its in the book. The Habs perform way better than I thought they would, Ill admit. But when I look at the standing this morning, while drinking my coffee , I cant help but feel sadness with the states of thing. We are one point away from a playoff spot and I dont think we can make it. The second half of the season is always tougher, teams are preparing for the series and the intensity climb a notch. So what are we gonna do? We are in the no man's land , just a bubble team who doesnt make the playoff and doesnt have a good quality pick in the first round. By quality I mean at least a top 10.

The status quo would be unacceptable in my book, we can afford to lose another season for nothing. There is two way we can go, either we make a push for the playoff by trading young assests and picks or we sell high on some of our good older players to help the team sink and add some prospects and picks to our already interesting youth. Finishing a couples points from the playoff would be the most disastrous scenario for our team. The same rinse and repeat cycle we are doing for a good quarter of century now.

So what would you do if you were in charge?( poll mods)

1. Trade assets to get a LD to help the push for the playoffs ( I read a lot of posts where people seems willing to go down that route)
2. Trade older players with good value in exchange of prospects and quality picks
3. Status quo. Stay in lane and just hope we clinch a playoff spot.

If I was in charge I would put Petry, Byron , Tatar on the blocks. I feel theses players can fetch us a good return and their departure would result in a dive in the standing for the habs. Get closer to a top 5 picks. That would be the best move for the near future of our club IMO.
 

Pat Riot

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Stay the course, keep all of our picks unless there is a deal that greatly benefits us (ie LD) and continue the rebuild. We're on the right track.

So you would keep all the vets and satisfy your self with a late first round pick. I think that would be a mistake not to take advantage of the high value of some of our players. Especially Petry, he could fetch us such a nice return that would help big time our reset
 

thegoalie39

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Nov 28, 2018
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No question Bergevin needs to pick a bloody direction....if you want to win in the present and i assume they do they have all these veterans on the team,then you need to go get impact players and that means mortgaging some of your future.....if not then you tear it down and try to win in the future...it makes zero sense to be competing for 8th playoffs spot with Price and Weber either build around them or get rid of them.
 

sandviper

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Jan 26, 2016
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In regards to each point:

1. While I would be in favour of getting a top-LD, the cost would be insane. Best we can maybe hope for is a second pairing LHD and even then it would cost us something of Poehling or Suzuki and a pick. I know there’s still unknowns about both players at the NHL-level, but I think moving either or both would be a mistake.

2. Not sure who would qualify here as Weber was JUST made captain and he’s clearly been playing great. Price has been playing better as well but he has a NMC anyways. Problem is, we really aren’t that old and I think moving key vets now would only make the rebuild longer.

3. See #2, though I am not opposed to moving these 3.

Anyhow, I am in agreement that we are at a crossroads. We have a good young team but no elite talent (though I have hope for Kotkaniemi to develop and our top prospects in the recent WJC). It is still too early though to start the fire sale as we may still stay within range of a playoff spot for a while. This may be easier to discuss once late-February rolls around and we see if we are buyers or sellers.

In case I am not clear, I am ultimately in favour of a true rebuild but the realist in me says this management group will not do that, especially since they are within a playoff spot.
 

Pat Riot

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Sep 30, 2017
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No question Bergevin needs to pick a bloody direction....if you want to win in the present and i assume they do they have all these veterans on the team,then you need to go get impact players and that means mortgaging some of your future.....if not then you tear it down and try to win in the future...it makes zero sense to be competing for 8th playoffs spot with Price and Weber either build around them or get rid of them.

I agree Price and Weber would be on the block too. For Weber we would have a great return for sure. With Price I dont know what to think , if Det really want a first round pick for Howard that means the value of goaltender is high right now in the league. I would try to trade Price for sure especially since he is playing better now
 

Pat Riot

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Sep 30, 2017
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In regards to each point:

1. While I would be in favour of getting a top-LD, the cost would be insane. Best we can maybe hope for is a second pairing LHD and even then it would cost us something of Poehling or Suzuki and a pick. I know there’s still unknowns about both players at the NHL-level, but I think moving either or both would be a mistake.

2. Not sure who would qualify here as Weber was JUST made captain and he’s clearly been playing great. Price has been playing better as well but he has a NMC anyways. Problem is, we really aren’t that old and I think moving key vets now would only make the rebuild longer.

3. See #2, though I am not opposed to moving these 3.

Anyhow, I am in agreement that we are at a crossroads. We have a good young team but no elite talent (though I have hope for Kotkaniemi to develop and our top prospects in the recent WJC). It is still too early though to start the fire sale as we may still stay within range of a playoff spot for a while. This may be easier to discuss once late-February rolls around and we see if we are buyers or sellers.

In case I am not clear, I am ultimately in favour of a true rebuild but the realist in me says this management group will not do that, especially since they are within a playoff spot.

Im afraid if we are still somewhat in the race for a playoff spot in february ( we are not really in my mind, second half of the season will be tough on us) that Bergevin wont have the clairvoyance or the balls to put us on the seller side
 
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mariolemieux66

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Sep 17, 2008
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We need to trade Petry with 50% retention. The return would be good for a 40+ points RHD under 3mil signed for another 2 seasons after this one. Shaw also needs to go if the rumor is true that we were offered a 1st at last year's trade deadline, as he his breaking down. I would rather take my chances with futures as opposed to try winning with this weak and aging core.
I am ok waiting after this season on at next year's trade deadline to trade other players.
 

Pat Riot

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And I think the value of some players is higher now than it will be a the trade deadline. Because by now the team will know they are sellers or buyers reducing the number of teams interested in the players. Like with Petry, I think trading him now will bring a bigger haul than waiting the deadline
 
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PKWeber

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Mar 1, 2017
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2015-16 miss playoffs
2016-17 first round exit
2017-18 miss playoffs
2018-19 hopefully they miss instead of losing in the first round.

Petry,Tatar,Shaw should all be traded at the deadline. Habs need to do everything they can to get a top 5 pick this year. They have great depth in the prospect pool but they need more top end/elite talent.
 

Pat Riot

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Depend who's the player ..

Well normally teams arent lining up to trade theirs young superstars on good contracts. So it wouldnt be an Heiskanen type of def, more a Leddy type of def. A player around 26 years old I foresee
 

Pat Riot

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
1,216
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2015-16 miss playoffs
2016-17 first round exit
2017-18 miss playoffs
2018-19 hopefully they miss instead of losing in the first round.

Petry,Tatar,Shaw should all be traded at the deadline. Habs need to do everything they can to get a top 5 pick this year. They have great depth in the prospect pool but they need more top end/elite talent.

Dont you think trading these players now would result in a bigger haul? Since teams are still fighting for a playoff spot. At the deadline we would only be dealing with contenders team
 

OldCraig71

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Feb 2, 2009
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We are not good enough to compete for a cup and need to continue drafting and hopefully we can find a couple studs that way because how else are we getting them? Enough wasting time on trying to snag something from somewhere else, it is not working that is unless you see mid/medicore as good enough. We need more talent and last night proves it, not every fan needs to wave pom poms, there are harsh realities to becoming a contending team in today's NHL and being in no mans land is not going to get us there.

If there is a plan you might very well see some vets moved for high picks because they are willing to make hard choices(not holding my breath). The last team that we lost to in the playoffs admitted that they were not good enough and decided to move on so why not here? I would also like to see a new GM at the helm in the summer, a real fresh start if you will.
 

Vachon23

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Oct 14, 2015
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Well normally teams arent lining up to trade theirs young superstars on good contracts. So it would be an Heiskanen type of def, more a Leddy type of def. A player around 26 years old I foresee

For a Fowler/Brodin/Leddy type of player I would probably be open to give something good yes
 

Pat Riot

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Sep 30, 2017
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We are not good enough to compete for a cup and need to continue drafting and hopefully we can find a couple studs that way because how else are we getting them? Enough wasting time on trying to snag something from somewhere else, it is not working that is unless you see mid/medicore as good enough. We need more talent and last night proves it, not every fan needs to wave pom poms, there are harsh realities to becoming a contending team in today's NHL and being in no mans land is not going to get us there.

If there is a plan you might very well see some vets moved for high picks because they are willing to make hard choices(not holding my breath). The last team that we lost to in the playoffs admitted that they were not good enough and decided to move on so why not here? I would also like to see a new GM at the helm in the summer, a real fresh start if you will.

Amen to that.
 

Pat Riot

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Sep 30, 2017
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For a Fowler/Brodin/Leddy type of player I would probably be open to give something good yes

Even though they are good players that I like, Im not sure it would be the right way to go. None of these players really tilt the game and make us a contender. We would definitely be in the race for a playoff spot with a trade like that but I think we would be stuck in the no man's land for years to come in result
 

Vachon23

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Oct 14, 2015
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Even though they are good players that I like, Im not sure it would be the right way to go. None of these players really tilt the game and make us a contender. We would definitely be in the race for a playoff spot with a trade like that but I think we would be stuck in the no man's land for years to come in result

But they are young. Brodin in 3 years will have 28 so he will be in his prime.
 

JianYang

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
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Im afraid if we are still somewhat in the race for a playoff spot in february ( we are not really in my mind, second half of the season will be tough on us) that Bergevin wont have the clairvoyance or the balls to put us on the seller side

In the big picture, this team made some good strides recently in rebuilding the prospect base, and they also made a couple shrewd trades.

When it comes to big tickets like Weber and Price, ownership will be more involved. So I don't really think it has much to do with Bergevin's "balls" as much as it has to do with the directives he receives from up top.

The playoff bar is incredibly high right now. I think 100 points has won divisions in the past, so it will be interesting to see whether that bar comes down to earth a bit, or if it will stay inflated throughout. This is not a 100 point club.
 
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PKWeber

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Dont you think trading these players now would result in a bigger haul? Since teams are still fighting for a playoff spot. At the deadline we would only be dealing with contenders team


Yes I would trade them now especially Petry. I just want them gone by the deadline.
 
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