The no man's land

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think the Leafs do that trade anyway

Not Muzzin i think he his past his prime or very close to be past it. Still a good player just not enough to make a difference for us.

We don't really need to move like right now can be this summer.

Leafs pulled the trigger and it was a similar offer to my Juulsen and two 2nd's.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Do you realize, you have just put more into this post, as a plan, than our clown GM would put in. Good job!!

MB hardly looks ahead to the next day, and what to wear, than he does the next couple of seasons. Let's hope he gets fired, and we hire TooLegitToQuit for GM!!!

When Danault was signed, I was surprised it was for the 3 year term. Then we added Tatar. 4 big pieces that are pending UFA in 2021!

 

[LaP]

When Danault was signed, I was surprised it was for the 3 year term. Then we added Tatar. 4 big pieces that are pending UFA in 2021!

That could be problematic. Specially since there will be a lot of pressure to sign Danault. Danault will have all the media force behind him to get a great deal. We definitely have the cap space to sign those guys but this cap space should be used to improve the team instead. I would definitely let Tatar go. I don't think he is as bad as he showed last season in Vegas but i don't think he is as good as he shows right now. He's a Ryder type of player. He can complement a solid top 6 but he will be the weakest link of this top 6. I've seen him play more than enough in Detroit to know if we give him 5+ long term it will be a mistake. We have Domi to sign the previous year too.

I can see Petry getting 6.5 easily (unless MB finally decides to buy a dog). Domi easily 5.5-6. Danault 4-4.5 easily but there will be pressure to give him more than that. He's a media favorite they will push for him to get 5. Gallagher is easily 5. That's a 6-7 millions increase (providing the players are not greedy). And this is not counting small increase to guys like Mete/Juulsen, Reilly/Kulak/Benn, Armia, Kok and Lehkonen. Also not counting the 3 millions increase Byron will get next year. Benn worry me a lot. I can see MB giving him 2-2.5 for 3-4 years.

We need to resign pretty much the whole team in the next 3 years (minus Price, Byron, Drouin and Weber). Some fans don't want to admit it but choices will have to be made. I would definitely let Tatar go as soon as i receive an offer. I would keep trying to trade Shaw. I still don't understand why we signed Byron to this deal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That could be problematic. Specially since there will be a lot of pressure to sign Danault. Danault will have all the media force behind him to get a great deal. We definitely have the cap space to sign those guys but this cap space should be used to improve the team instead. I would definitely let Tatar go. I don't think he is as bad as he showed last season in Vegas but i don't think he is as good as he shows right now. He's a Ryder type of player. He can complement a solid top 6 but he will be the weakest link of this top 6. I've seen him play more than enough in Detroit to know if we give him 5+ long term it will be a mistake. We have Domi to sign the previous year too.

I can see Petry getting 6.5 easily (unless MB finally decides to buy a dog). Domi easily 5.5-6. Danault 4-4.5 easily but there will be pressure to give him more than that. He's a media favorite they will push for him to get 5. Gallagher is easily 5. That's a 6-7 millions increase (providing the players are not greedy). And this is not counting small increase to guys like Mete/Juulsen, Reilly/Kulak/Benn, Armia, Kok and Lehkonen. Also not counting the 3 millions increase Byron will get next year. Benn worry me a lot. I can see MB giving him 2-2.5 for 3-4 years.

We need to resign pretty much the whole team in the next 3 years (minus Price, Byron, Drouin and Weber). Some fans don't want to admit it but choices will have to be made. I would definitely let Tatar go as soon as i receive an offer. I would keep trying to trade Shaw. I still don't understand why we signed Byron to this deal.

I'm very worried about the 2021 off season "to do list". Get ready for another potential "re-set". However, Bergevin's contract ends at the same time

 

[scrubadam]

So would anyone be happy with what the Kings got if we traded Petry? A late first and 2 B/C prospects?

I would rather keep Petry in the line up.

 

[FrankMTL]

So would anyone be happy with what the Kings got if we traded Petry? A late first and 2 B/C prospects?

I would rather keep Petry in the line up.

I agree with that. I'd rather a first and an "A" prospect instead of two "B" prospects. If the only offers are similar to the Leafs one, I would hold onto him. There's no rush anyways. I think we can forget any potential trades with the Leafs for Petry.

 

[BaseballCoach]

So would anyone be happy with what the Kings got if we traded Petry? A late first and 2 B/C prospects?

Petry is a first-pairing calibre defenceman on a young 31 year old's legs, playing the best hockey of his career and under contract for 2.4 more years at the salary of a #3D.

He would require a massive return.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Petry is a first-pairing calibre defenceman on a young 31 year old's legs, playing the best hockey of his career and under contract for 2.4 more years at the salary of a #3D.

He would require a massive return.

I think you could get a massive return for him, in all fairness.

I don’t see a reason why we can’t get a 1st and a real solid prospect for him. Similar to Pacioretty deal-esque.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Potential contracts to be negotiated in the 2022 off season ($93.5M cap?):
- RFA's: Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Fleury... hard to predict if they play more than 40 NHL games next year.

Three of those four players will need new contracts in 2022 if they simply turn pro next year, whether they play 1 NHL game or not.

For Fleury it is in 2021.

 

[LaP]

So would anyone be happy with what the Kings got if we traded Petry? A late first and 2 B/C prospects?

I would rather keep Petry in the line up.

Petry is worth more than Muzzin. He is under contract and right now plays better than Muzzin.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think you could get a massive return for him, in all fairness.

I don’t see a reason why we can’t get a 1st and a real solid prospect for him. Similar to Pacioretty deal-esque.

Pacioretty had one year left and was coming off a bad year. Petry is playing the best hockey of his career and is signed until June 2021.

He is worth a much more than a late 1st and solid prospect.

I'm always scared when someone is anxious to trade a player and predicting a "massive return". When asked, we usually find out how weak the return actually would be if he were the one deciding.

 

[TT1]

OP, the thing is we already have great prospects coming up. So this isnt your typical "no mans land" team.

We already have the youngest or 2nd youngest NHL team and as mentioned we have some good players coming up. They need to be surrounded by a good team, if not you can end up having an Edmonton Oilers scenario. No leadership, just a bunch of headless chickens running around aimlessly. Clearly the tanking method hasnt worked out for them very well, even after having drafted a generational player..

 

[scrubadam]

Petry is a first-pairing calibre defenceman on a young 31 year old's legs, playing the best hockey of his career and under contract for 2.4 more years at the salary of a #3D.

He would require a massive return.

Well whats interesting is that on the radio they were saying that Dubas said the price was too expensive for Muzzin thats nothing had happened before the trade., and lots of rumors that the price was high. Eventually LA must of moved off the high price and went for something more reasonable.

Whats my point? Well GM's are usually very far off from what posters on HF boards say a players value is, and you also have to find a GM willing to pay that MASSIVE return. If no one is willing to give up the pieces you lower your price.

So if thats what Muzzin went for I don't see Petry going for some huge massive increase on that deal. Maybe bump one of the pieces up or add another pick or something. But why would Dubas give up Nylander/Kapannen or other big pieces for Petry if he wouldn't for Muzzin, just as an example? GM's might take the slightly inferior player at the slightly inferior price.

If Petry was returning us a top 10 pick or legit NHL maybe I think about it. But I just don't see it. And all those positives you listed are reasons why the habs should keep him at least for this year instead of trading him and making the D worse.

 

[scrubadam]

Petry is worth more than Muzzin. He is under contract and right now plays better than Muzzin.

I just really don't think GM's would offer more. I think GM's would rather pay a cheaper price for a slightly worse player.

Also HF boards is usually pretty wrong on player value when trades actually happen. IRL I don't think many GM's would offer a knock the socks off package for Petry. I mean do you think if MB called TOR that Dubas gives us Nylander or Kapannen for Petry? I doubt it and he probably is more than happy to get a good enough Muzzin for a late 1st and some prospects way down his depth chart.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I just really don't think GM's would offer more. I think GM's would rather pay a cheaper price for a slightly worse player.

Also HF boards is usually pretty wrong on player value when trades actually happen. IRL I don't think many GM's would offer a knock the socks off package for Petry. I mean do you think if MB called TOR that Dubas gives us Nylander or Kapannen for Petry? I doubt it and he probably is more than happy to get a good enough Muzzin for a late 1st and some prospects way down his depth chart.

Dubas will see that it was NOT "good enough".

You get what you pay for.

The move helps Toronto a little bit but long-term shows their real problems.

They are going to lose Gardiner and yet only save $1M by having to pay Muzzin. To save that $1M, they had to surrender their 2019 1st plus two decent prospects, and then next June they either lose Muzzin or possibly owe him a raise.

Worst of all, one of their best chips available to solve their LONG-TERM problem of a first-pairing RHD is gone.

 

[ECWHSWI]

OP, the thing is we already have great prospects coming up. So this isnt your typical "no mans land" team.

We already have the youngest or 2nd youngest NHL team and as mentioned we have some good players coming up. They need to be surrounded by a good team, if not you can end up having an Edmonton Oilers scenario. No leadership, just a bunch of headless chickens running around aimlessly. Clearly the tanking method hasnt worked out for them very well, even after having drafted a generational player..

forward group only.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Three of those four players will need new contracts in 2022 if they simply turn pro next year, whether they play 1 NHL game or not.

For Fleury it is in 2021.

Not 100% sure but you have to play 10 NHL games to burn the first year of the ELC. Turning pro means AHL or NHL. Fleury and Evans turned pro this year and their ELC will slide if he don't play 10 games. If Poehling plays 1 NHL game this year, his ELC would start. Like Lindgren. Also not sure the difference between NCCA, CHL, and Euro prospects.

Look at Scherbak for example...

 

[TT1]

forward group only.

Good thing we have a bunch of stud dmen coming up ! Fleury/Romanov/Brook, Mete is still young and looks to be a future top 4, Juulsen's still in the AHL. Both Reilly and Kulak are still young and they're getting better, they'll be good contributors for several more years. Still dunno what we have in Harris/Walford/Tyszka, maybe 1 of them pans out.

 

[Habs Halifax]

forward group only.

True but we also have Mete, Juulsen, Fleury, Brook, and Romanov coming on D.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not 100% sure but you have to play 10 NHL games to burn the first year of the ELC. Turning pro means AHL or NHL. Fleury and Evans turned pro this year and their ELC will slide if he don't play 10 games. If Poehling plays 1 NHL game this year, his ELC would start. Like Lindgren. Also not sure the difference between NCCA, CHL, and Euro prospects.

Look at Scherbak for example...

Scherbak's contract slid becaquse he signed it at age 18. Fleury's will not because he signed it at age 19.

The contracts for Evans and anyone else who starts at 20 or older do not slide.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Scherbak's contract slid becaquse he signed it at age 18. Fleury's will not because he signed it at age 19.

The contracts for Evans and anyone else who starts at 20 or older do not slide.

I didn't know this. I did a search on it. What I found was this... "
If a player who is signed to an entry-level contract and is 18 or 19 years of age (as of September 15 of the signing year), does not play in a minimum of 10 NHL games (including both regular season and playoffs; AHL games do not count), their contract is considered to ‘slide’, or extend, by one year. For example, if a player signed an ELC for three seasons from 2015-16 to 2017-2018, and their contract slides, their contract is now effective from 2016-17 to 2018-19. An exception to this rule is that if the player is 19 on September 15 of the first year of their contract, and turns 20 between September 16 and December 31, their contract does not slide.
Because signing bonuses are paid regardless of a slide, the bonuses paid on the slide year no longer count to the players remaining cap hit. The cap hit therefore changes - the players salary is averaged without the signing bonus."

- Suzuki signed July 15, 2017 when he was 18. So his contract will keep sliding until he plays 10 NHL games.
- Brook signed Sept 21, 2018 when he was 19 and he has not turned 20 yet. So his contract will keep sliding until he plays 10 NHL games.
- Fleury signed Oct 4, 2018 when he was 20. So his contract will not slide.
- Poehling has not signed yet and he is 20 so his contract will not slide whenever we sign him.

So add Fleury to Kotkaniemi as RFA's to extend in 2021. Add Poehling if we signed him this year. Hard to predict if Brook and Suzuki play 10 NHL games next year.

- Kotkaniemi, Fleury, (maybe Poehling if he signs this season and plays one game like Lindgren did), as RFA's to extend in 2021. Suzuki and Brook maybe in 2022 if they play 10 NHL games next year. Poehling as well if we sign him after this season.

- Gallagher, Petry, Tatar, Danault, Lindgren as UFA's to extend in 2021

 

[BaseballCoach]

I didn't know this. I did a search on it. What I found was this... "
I.......

So add Fleury to Kotkaniemi as RFA's to extend in 2021. Add Poehling if we signed him this year. Hard to predict if Brook and Suzuki play 10 NHL games next year.

- Kotkaniemi, Fleury, (maybe Poehling if he signs this season and plays one game like Lindgren did), as RFA's to extend in 2021. Suzuki and Brook maybe in 2022 if they play 10 NHL games next year (Poehling as well if we sign him after this season, this summer)

- Gallagher, Petry, Tatar, Danault, Lindgren as UFA's to extend in 2021

You finally got Fleury right.

Still wrong on Suzuki and Brook. If they turn pro next year, they will be 20 and their contracts will NOT slide, no matter what.

You are right about Poehling, because he did not sign at 18. If he signs soon, and plays pro this year, he burns this year and there are only two years left on his ELC.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You finally got Fleury right.

Still wrong on Suzuki and Brook. If they turn pro next year, they will be 20 and their contracts will NOT slide, no matter what.

You are right about Poehling, because he did not sign at 18. If he signs soon, and plays this year, he burns this year and there are only two years left on his ELC.

Not sure we agree on Suzuki and Brook... not according to what I read. Do you not agree with the red text in the post above?

Signed at age 18 or 19 and neither of them turned 20 from Sept 16 - Dec 31 of their signing year. They will slide if they don't play 10 NHL games. That's how I interpret it.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not sure we agree on Suzuki and Brook... not according to what I read.

What you read said that contracts could sometimes slide if a player was 18 or 19 (with a bunch of complicated rules). Since they will be 20 in 2019-20, the contracts can't slide.

You might be getting confused by UFA rules.

Because Suzuki's birthday is after July 1st, he will turn UFA on June 30 2027, which is his 8th pro season, unless he burns next year by playing 40 games in the NHL.

This little tidbit means that Kotkaniemi will become UFA THREE years earlier than he might have had he played his first 40 games in 1921-22. He will be one of the very few players to ever become UFA at age 24, unless he signs a contract before then that carries beyond June 2025.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Petry is a first-pairing calibre defenceman on a young 31 year old's legs, playing the best hockey of his career and under contract for 2.4 more years at the salary of a #3D.

He would require a massive return.

The fact he’s a RHD adds value exponentially as well. If Muzzin was able to get a first and two decent prospects, the price tag on Petry has to be enormous. Dubas said the price for a RHD was too high, and that may be the problem with trading a guy like Petry right now. Teams won’t want to pay up and Bergevin will simply see it as he’s worth more to the team then in any trade, which is probably true.