The Nikolai slight overreaction thread

[mossey3535]

The guy will backcheck all the way from the ozone. He tries to body his man now. He has a pretty good stick defensively.

Like I said before, unless we're being total hypocrites, isn't this what we've claimed that we wanted from pretty much every prospect, from Bo to Jakey? And on top of that he is third in team scoring.

Yeah, he's high risk. High event. But he's come further in terms of 200-ft game in basically half a season total than anyone else we've had in the recent past, and I want game breakers. I want a guy who works with EP, and we've put a ton of "safe" players on the line with those two. To my eye, who actually extends their shifts? Not the safe guys, it's Goldy.

Intangibois talks about Baertschi being better on a playoff team. I agree - except, well this ain't a playoff team. We need to be trying out guys like Goldy and seeing as MS said whether they can hang when a team like the Jets comes and ups the pace.

I mean right now this is a guy who make a terrible giveaway every so often but at least he is on his horse coming back trying to fix it. We've got plenty of guys who just give it away and hand their heads and let the breakaway happen.

Like it took Baertschi two whole seasons to look at the middle of the offensive zone sideways, and that's where he needed to make his money. And he took AGES to develop defensively.

Now we have a guy who is putting up points AND has good advanced stats AND to me is one of the few guys who works with EP AND is trying his butt off to play defence?

Honestly I don't know what else you guys want.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Goldobin’s game isn’t really that valuable or something that is hard to replace. He scores points but he has huge holes in his game (soft, lack of size and strength, doesn’t play in the dirty areas very much, not great defensively).

Did you just do the trick where you said the same thing in 3 different ways to make it sound like a list of things?

Some of those other guys will be able to replace his scoring but also bring more to the table.

We have much bigger organizational holes, and if we could trad3 goldy for like a 2nd round pick, and use that pick to draft a good d prospect, I would heavily consider it.

He is one dimensional, but our team lacks that dimension so bad.

I'd argue he is the 2nd best passer on the team at the moment. To me its Pettersson, (you could reasonably argue Boeser here) then Goldobin.
The fact that his shot assists are being converted at a minuscule rate is something that should regress to the mean.

To me, that alone makes him worth keeping in the top 6.

 

[Ben White]

I admit that he’s been a lot better the last couple of games (and I already admitted the overreaction by changing the thread title) so I wouldn’t mind locking this one up...

 

[CherryToke]

Goldy would probably work better with Horvat. He could use help in the playmaking department. Just get him the f*** away from EP.

 

[THE Green Man]

Goldy would probably work better with Horvat. He could use help in the playmaking department. Just get him the **** away from EP.

Swapping Rousell and Goldobin could be smart- Bo would have 2 guys who can actually pass the puck with Goldobin and Gagner. Petterson would have a true goal scorer in Boeser and a guy for now to dig pucks out in Rousell. Not ideal but probably worth a look at the moment.

 

[vanarchy]

Swapping Rousell and Goldobin could be smart- Bo would have 2 guys who can actually pass the puck with Goldobin and Gagner. Petterson would have a true goal scorer in Boeser and a guy for now to dig pucks out in Rousell. Not ideal but probably worth a look at the moment.

I like it.

 

[vanuck]

What do people make of this article? Interesting conclusion...

Microstats love Nikolay Goldobin

 

[ProstheticConscience]

And just to reiterate the points made in the closed thread, Leipsic and Goldobin play nothing alike, and Goldobin is a significantly better player.

 

[sting101]

Goldobins been good most of the year...........it's not even a remotely sane argument.

 

[rocketchu]

I guess it comes down to how you define "good"! I would say he has been roughly the same as Leipsic but received far more PP time and played with better players. Both are fringe NHL players, who likely won't be in the league in 2-3 years, so it is ultimately a debate without much purpose.

 

[Archangel]

He’s awful... what can I say, awful

what happened to him being a steal of a deal when we got him?

 

[Zippgunn]

I guess it comes down to how you define "good"! I would say he has been roughly the same as Leipsic but received far more PP time and played with better players. Both are fringe NHL players, who likely won't be in the league in 2-3 years, so it is ultimately a debate without much purpose.

This. Goldy will tiitllate and frustrate in roughly equal measure until he plays enough games to earn his pension and then will retire to the KHL as an "NHL veteran".

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[Hit the post]

Goldobins been good most of the year...........it's not even a remotely sane argument.

WAY, WAY, WAY better than a stiff like Schaller.

 

[rocketchu]

Is Schaller really the bar though? I think the issue/debate is whether he will ultimately be part of the solution and worthy of a multi year deal in the 1.5 per year range. Is all good fun, but I am not sure why his proponents frequently, and usually quickly, turn to the "he is better than X" argument. That is not the question and is ultimately irrelevant.

He is an interesting case study as usually there is general agreement on players in this group and in the media. Opinions on 77 though vary wildly. I suspect there is far more at play there than player evaluation, whether it be love for the concept of that trade and/or a debate on analytics, but it will likely continue long after he is no longer a Canuck whenever that may be.

 

[Hit the post]

Is Schaller really the bar though? I think the issue/debate is whether he will ultimately be part of the solution and worthy of a multi year deal in the 1.5 per year range. Is all good fun, but I am not sure why his proponents frequently, and usually quickly, turn to the "he is better than X" argument. That is not the question and is ultimately irrelevant.

Thread subject was "is Goldy the worst top 6 player in the NHL" and since Schaller isn't a top six player (nor signed to be one), ok you have a point. Though is he better than X *IS* relevant for this thread since that is answering/responding the subject (eg., if he's not the worst, then why. stating worse players would be backing that statement up wouldn't it?)

 

[rocketchu]

Fair enough. I was talking about the general debate about his worth that rages on rather than this post/poll which was merged with different Goldobin threads for some reason.

 

[Canucks1096]

I guess it comes down to how you define "good"! I would say he has been roughly the same as Leipsic but received far more PP time and played with better players. Both are fringe NHL players, who likely won't be in the league in 2-3 years, so it is ultimately a debate without much purpose.

Goldobin is not a fringe nhl player

 

[rocketchu]

I don't think he will be in the league in 3 years but I suppose it all comes down to how one defines "fringe". He would likely get claimed on waivers so there is that going for him.

Is always odd to me that the biggest Benning haters, and I am not saying you fit that category as I don't know, are the biggest fans of 77 and that trade and will likely be happy when Benning overpays him. I hope to figure out the reasons for that some day but I am not there yet.

 

[strattonius]

Goldobin is not a fringe nhl player

I dont know a better way to describe him at this point. A soft forward who is scratched from time to time.

 

[Hit the post]

I don't think he will be in the league in 3 years but I suppose it all comes down to how one defines "fringe". He would likely get claimed on waivers so there is that going for him.

Is always odd to me that the biggest Benning haters, and I am not saying you fit that category as I don't know, are the biggest fans of 77 and that trade and will likely be happy when Benning overpays him. I hope to figure out the reasons for that some day but I am not there yet.

I'll try and answer that.....

1) Yes, I've made no secret as to where I am on the pro or anti Benning camp
2) I'm human and I do try and not let that bias affect my opinion of players he gets (eg., I don't automatically assume they're trash players)
3) I won't be happy if he's overpaid (though that would depend on how much he's overpaid)
4) I wasn't happy with that trade initially because I thought Hansen had a pretty good contract and failed to see the need to retain salary (only part of the trade I really disliked). But in hindsight, I guess Benning knew or thought his game would fall off the cliff that fast.

 

[rocketchu]

Fair enough but I think the test ultimately has to be more than whether he now has more value than Hansen, or whether it was a "good" trade and 77 has to be evaluated as a player rather than as an idea. I still say that if he was drafted by Benning then people would slam him mercilessly for that pick rather than cutting him the considerable slack that they do. Anyway, I do hope I am dead wrong on him as it would be nice if he was a player. I really don't see anything there but will see.

 

[Canucks1096]

Goldobin is getting so underrated. He is first in the team in cf% and ff%. Was first on the team in assists for the most of the season and now second. He has the best pass/60 on the team ( So the passes he makes that led to shots) Pettersson cfs% goes up close to 20% with Goldobin. Right now he has 17 points in 30 games. On pace for 46 points. 46 point is definitely second line numbers.

 

[Canucker]

IMO...he's another Baertschi . Highly skilled, teases you with his ability and bursts of scoring, only to leave you wanting more because he has the consistency of jello pudding. Hard to rely on guys like this.

 

[Melvin]

I don't think he will be in the league in 3 years but I suppose it all comes down to how one defines "fringe". He would likely get claimed on waivers so there is that going for him.

Is always odd to me that the biggest Benning haters, and I am not saying you fit that category as I don't know, are the biggest fans of 77 and that trade and will likely be happy when Benning overpays him. I hope to figure out the reasons for that some day but I am not there yet.

You will never be able to find the answers you seek if you are trying to apply such black-while labelling.

I was probably the most out-spoken critic of the Goldobin trade, and yet I think I voted him higher in the prospect polls than 90% of the people here, and I believe firmly that he should get as much quality playing time as possible this season so that we can determine what we have. I am pretty critical of his play at times though and I still think he is more likely than not to be a bust, and yet I will happy if he isn't.

The real world is just more nuanced than "all people who hate Benning think X, and yet all people who hate Benning think Y!"