The NHL has a BIG problem (Cap Circumvention via LTIR)

[JadedLeaf]

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. The salary cap exists, and players get injured. That's all just reality, and part of the game. If the player on LTIR comes back for the playoffs, you simply have to sit the players you acquired to get by while he was out. That's still a rule that's completely fair to all team equally. If there's too many good players sitting during the playoffs, that's a result of dilution, not the closing of salary cap loopholes. The actual catalyst to most of this problem is that it's questionable that a guy gets 'healthy' at exactly the right time.

That's actually my biggest issue is that teams are purposefully circumventing it. It's not Tampa that annoyed me, it's whatever team was saying not that long ago that they were going to sit high end players until the end of the season. Just blatantly and openly circumventing the rules and the spirit of it.

 

[Daz28]

How so?

Why would teams get near the cap if they would lose their stars for doing so, if an untimely injury were to occur?

OMG! You still got your star back. You just don't get to keep the insurance policy, too. I mean that's how I see your argument. You get your stolen car back, but you still want to keep the insurance money paid out for it.

 

[nuxnuxnux]

Stupid people really think kucherov sat out a whole year faking an injury and that stone is doing the same lmao, kuch was probably rehabbing til a couple weeks before playoffs and didn’t bother playing in meaningless games risking a re injury

 

[Daz28]

That's actually my biggest issue is that teams are purposefully circumventing it. It's not Tampa that annoyed me, it's whatever team was saying not that long ago that they were going to sit high end players until the end of the season. Just blatantly and openly circumventing the rules and the spirit of it.

Vegas is planning on doing it AS WE SPEAK.

 

[Daz28]

Stupid people really think kucherov sat out a whole year faking an injury and that stone is doing the same lmao, kuch was probably rehabbing til a couple weeks before playoffs and didn’t bother playing in meaningless games risking a re injury

Then he's a healthy scratch

 

[JadedLeaf]

Vegas is planning on doing it AS WE SPEAK.

Yes that was the team. I'm on my phone and didn't feel like opening new tabs and trying to go back and find it. Thanks.

 

[nuxnuxnux]

Then he's a healthy scratch

Then he's a healthy scratch

Should be easy to stretch out a rehab timeframe for a couple weeks, I’m sure kucherov isn’t the first to do so to avoid playing in games he could risk re injury in when his team has already clinched a spot

 

[JadedLeaf]

Stupid people really think kucherov sat out a whole year faking an injury and that stone is doing the same lmao, kuch was probably rehabbing til a couple weeks before playoffs and didn’t bother playing in meaningless games risking a re injury

The optics of being on ltir up until the very moment the season ended and then being game ready isn't great.. if he was able to play but fine tuning for the playoffs then he had no business being on LTIR until it was convenient for TB.

Maybe more follow up needs to be done with third party doctors if LTIR is going to be abused.

 

[JadedLeaf]

Should be easy to stretch out a rehab timeframe for a couple weeks, I’m sure kucherov isn’t the first to do so to avoid playing in games he could risk re injury in when his team has already clinched a spot

That's fine. And I don't mind it. But don't use LTIR to give yourself a mini training camp and your team an advantage in the playoffs.

 

[Daz28]

Should be easy to stretch out a rehab timeframe for a couple weeks, I’m sure kucherov isn’t the first to do so to avoid playing in games he could risk re injury in when his team has already clinched a spot

Yeah, until every year more and more guys are stretching out their rehabs for longer and longer periods of time. I'm not against Kuch here either, just the general nonsense of it all.

 

[nuxnuxnux]

That's fine. And I don't mind it. But don't use LTIR to give yourself a mini training camp and your team an advantage in the playoffs.

This is honestly a don’t hate the player hate the game situation, kuch wasn’t the first and won’t be the last to do that. I agree though teams should have a certain cap in the playoffs say 10 mill more than regular season for the cases when a star does get a season long injury and they need to bolster the roster to even Attempt to make the playoffs

 

[Golden_Jet]

That’s the proposal in the article and what I suggested in one of the other threads we’ve had about this in recent memory

Thanks, never read the article, or saw it.

 

[Arpeggio]

The optics of being on ltir up until the very moment the season ended and then being game ready isn't great.. if he was able to play but fine tuning for the playoffs then he had no business being on LTIR until it was convenient for TB.

Maybe more follow up needs to be done with third party doctors if LTIR is going to be abused.

And the bigger issue is that a team like Tampa Bay is motivated to hold Kucherov out for a few games so that they can play with an illegal roster in the playoffs.

The on-ice roster for every playoff game should be cap compliant. If a team brings in guys to supplement missing an injured superstar in the regular season, then they should keep in mind that if they do make the playoffs, they might have to sit some guys to get under the cap. I don't think the expectation should be that if your 8 million dollar forward gets hurt, you get to add another 8 million dollar star and then once the playoff hits everyone gets to play.

 

[nuxnuxnux]

Also let’s be real if any of the people complaining here’s team did the same and won the cup, would you really be saying ur team didn’t deserve it and cheated it’s way to a cup win? Doubt it

 

[Rydev]

OMG! You still got your star back. You just don't get to keep the insurance policy, too. I mean that's how I see your argument. You get your stolen car back, but you still want to keep the insurance money paid out for it.

And where do these excess players go? Disappear by osmosis?

You cant waive guys safely until after the team's season ends, including playoffs.

Youre so missing the aspect of having more than a 23-man roster if injuries occur and you get guys back from injury after making acquisitions at the deadline

Add a 2-3 man taxi squad for playoffs and you can instill a cap.

 

[Daz28]

And where do these excess players go? Disappear by osmosis?

You cant waive guys safely until after the team's season ends, including playoffs.

Youre so missing the aspect of having more than a 23-man roster if injuries occur and you get guys back from injury

Somehow you got it right, and still got it wrong. You just get cap compliant by any means under the rules. A simple fix would be you allow the team to use its originally designed depth pool; its farm system. There's even emergency call-ups already in place for that, anyways.

 

[Chips]

Should be easy to stretch out a rehab timeframe for a couple weeks, I’m sure kucherov isn’t the first to do so to avoid playing in games he could risk re injury in when his team has already clinched a spot

He literally came back earlier than the normal timeframe for that surgery. He more likely came back before full rehab than after. As others have pointed out he parked in the slot a lot and a huge % of his points were from Tampa’s powerplay. He didn’t skate his full self, and he had another lower body injury this year which is typically a risk of coming back too soon; who knows if that was completely from scratch or he was already playing with nagging injury from before


Some fans just assumed, even tho it was explained in depth about that surgery and the fact the league regularly checks on every player on LTIR

 

[Daz28]

Also let’s be real if any of the people complaining here’s team did the same and won the cup, would you really be saying ur team didn’t deserve it and cheated it’s way to a cup win? Doubt it

...and what about the team that lost to them who didn't do it?

 

[Rydev]

Somehow you got it right, and still got it wrong. You just get cap compliant by any means under the rules. A simple fix would be you allow the team to use its originally designed depth pool; its farm system. There's even emergency call-ups already in place for that, anyways.

'you just get cap compliant by any means under the rules'

Yet here you are wanting to change the rules teams use to get cap complaint. Weird

 

[Daz28]

'you just get cap compliant by any means under the rules'

Yet here you are wanting to change the rules teams use to get cap complaint. Weird

As I said, I'm not completely against LTIR, just teams using it to hide players to remain compliant.

 

[TaLoN]

They've talked about it before on multiple occasions and decided to leave it as is. I'm guessing the same happens here. It's a bigger problem in the eyes of the fans than it is from the league perspective. The NHLPA probably would fight against changing it too. Most of these players are actually hurt, it's not this big "fake injury" conspiracy fans want to believe in.

 

[nuxnuxnux]

...and what about the team that lost to them who didn't do it?

Tough luck? Better luck next year? Do the same thing at your own risk? If the fans are right and Vegas is trying to do the same thing they are failing miserably at it. Not tampas fault they had the horses to get it done without their best player… can you say the same about other teams?

 

[Bounces R Way]

NGL I'd be pretty pissed as Colorado or Calgary if Vegas gets in a WC and Stone, Pacioretty, Lehner, and Martinez all are activated for game 1. It's basically a totally different team.

 

[Divine]

They've talked about it before on multiple occasions and decided to leave it as is. I'm guessing the same happens here. It's a bigger problem in the eyes of the fans than it is from the league perspective. The NHLPA probably would fight against changing it too. Most of these players are actually hurt, it's not this big "fake injury" conspiracy fans want to believe in.

Supposedly multiple GM's want it changed this time. I'm expecting some change.

The most logical change is cap compliant active roster per game. Every player dressed to play that game has to be under cap. So you can move players in and out freely, but the cap space has to be under the cap. I don't understand how this hurts any team. The only way it hurts teams is they don't benefit when the player comes back, so it takes away the advantage.

 

[Djp]

Supposedly multiple GM's want it changed this time. I'm expecting some change.

The most logical change is cap compliant active roster per game. Every player dressed to play that game has to be under cap. So you can move players in and out freely, but the cap space has to be under the cap. I don't understand how this hurts any team. The only way it hurts teams is they don't benefit when the player comes back, so it takes away the advantage.

That doesn’t matter

if your 23 man is under the cap, the 20 you dress is under the cap.

what I’ve said in other threads is— player must play a regular season game to be playoff eligible in either AHL ot NHL ( rehab AHL games don’t count). You can’t have a player spend entire year on LTIR then return for playoffs