The NHL has a BIG problem ( Cap Circumvention via LTIR)

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Leaves34, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Leaves34 Registered User

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    Simply put, Cap Circumvention via LTIR

    Teams like Tampa Bay and Toronto are using LTIR to bolster their rosters for the playoffs.

    Kucherov being out the entire season, giving the Lightning $10.5M in extra cap relief throughout the season. But as soon as the playoffs come around, he can be activated off LTIR without a hiccup and Tampa will be playing in the playoffs with a roster that could have a cap hit north of $95M.

    Toronto acquired Riley Nash from Columbus and it won’t count for a cent on their cap since he’s on LTIR and won’t be activated until the playoffs where there is no salary cap.

    The Salary cap was created to give smaller market teams a fighting chance against the larger spending, big markets of the NHL. But with this LTIR loophole, it allows teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay extra cap space since in the playoffs, there is no salary cap.


    There is a simple solution to this problem, have a salary cap in the playoffs. it would completely negate this loophole.
     
  2. surixon Registered User

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    I 100% agree. The cap should remain in effect for the entire year. Why it dissapears for the playoffs is beyond me and makes no sense.
     
  3. Steven Toast Registered User

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    All teams can use this "loop hole". TB is the 21st most valuable team according to Forbes with a 470 million dollar valuation.
     
  4. Chips Registered User

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    Oh god this again.


    Teams are allowed equal footing ie equal rules to ice the best team *they’re capable of (as in, do you draft better, sign better contracts, generally do things better? That’s not unfair)

    you’re allowed to use all the cap space you are allowed to ice a competitive team 90% of the season to make the playoffs. The rules dont change because a team has a better roster.

    unless you have some evidence the injuries are faked, and or that the NHL didn’t/isn’t following the normal protocol they set to evaluate all IR appointments, what “seems like they’re” abusing the rule everyone has?


    Think about the trade deadline, how does forcing cap space to be used help small teams? They have injuries too, you want teams to ice AHL rosters because of unfortunate number of injuries, when they could have acquired a good player?

    what if the injured player doesn’t return? They don’t always.
     
  5. Dr Pepper Registered User

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    Yeah, don't really get the small market whimpering when every team is subject to the same rules. :dunno:
     
  6. Dr Jan Itor Registered User

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    If the owners are interested in a solution, there will be one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  7. Machinehead If you're reading this, your goalie is bad

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    I actively encourage cap circumvention. The NHL's cap is stupid.

    They sold you all on a parity narrative when the sole purpose of it was owners lining their pockets.
     
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  8. Ted Hoffman Yes, I really am better than you.

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    This. Those of us who've spent years studying the salary cap knew this was a potential problem before the 2006 playoffs. If it wasn't evident then, it was definitely evident before the 2012-13 season when the players and owners were (wasting weeks doing nothing before they finally decided to sit down and start) negotiating a new CBA.

    Neither side is interested in correcting this. One side really should be. Until that side catches on and requests changes, it's a problem for the fans - and as much as they hate to hear it, the owners and the players don't care about what the fans want in a CBA.
     
  9. AnimalFear Registered User

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    Probably because it facilitates trades at the deadline, which are big for entertainment, and also it helps teams that are out of the race pick up some futures by trading players, which helps parity.
     
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  10. surixon Registered User

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    Teams have to be cap compliant at the deadline, I have a hard time seeing how trades at the deadline impact not having a cap at the playoffs unless you are trading for injured players and how often does that actually happen.
     
  11. CanadianCoyote Registered User

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    I mean, it was more about cost certainty than anything, not just to line owner's pockets. There's a reason pretty much all of the league's relocations happened before the hard cap came in, and the one that happened after had nothing to do with not being able to keep up pay-wise and more to do with ownership wanting nothing more but to kill that team off.

    The cap makes it easier for teams in small markets to have a better chance at things when they don't have to constantly deal with major market teams just poaching all their players because they happen to be in larger markets and can shell out more money.

    Plus it just saves owners from themselves, because another huge problem was team owners spending money without really any rhyme or reason, like the Rangers spent years doing after '94.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  12. Three On Zero Generational Poster

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    The players who pour their blood, sweat and tears into this game would probably prefer to not be hurt for an entire season. This isn’t circumvention
     
  13. MGK Save us, Peyton Krebs

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    You think you're mad now? Wait till a team trades for Eichel at the deadline.
     
  14. bov Registered User

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    Why would anyone in their right mind want the cap to remain in effect for a player who can't play for the entire season? There's no more integrity or fairness involved if you hold that against a team. Funny how only the good teams take heat for LTIR usage.

    And we're seriously talking about circumvention when it comes to Riley Nash? Good God.
     
  15. Zippy316 aka Zippo

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    There's still an inherent risk to a lot of these deals or it comes at a cost.

    Teams have to be compliant on Day 1 of the season. If you end up gaining an extra several million because a top player went down like Kucherov this season or Kane the year they acquired Vermette, you still run the risk of that player not being healthy come playoff time. Not only that, you still have to be good enough to make the playoffs without said player and have assets to pull off a trade to fill that artificial cap space.

    In the case of the Leafs acquiring Riley Nash, there's no guarantees he's 100% come playoff time either.
     
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  16. Chips Registered User

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    Even if they thought this was a problem, there’s no easy solution when you consider there’s a trade deadline, unless they fundamentally alter basically everything about league financing/contracts

    they pretty much have the option of the current rules, risking some players returning after the cap so that their team could ice a competitive roster during the season without trading that player just because he had the misfortune of getting injured (when they didn’t really want to trade him)

    forcing the cap to stay in the playoffs, requiring more tough decisions (trade the player//ice an AHL roster and risk missing the playoffs/good seeding/actually entertaining fans// adding more players to help your team, but then forcing them or the equally deserving previously injured player to sit out the playoffs because bad luck to negate their cap)

    remove the trade deadline, which would have ripple effects outside of teams loading up last second (including legit teams that could have made the playoffs and decided to go for it, last second deciding “f*** it” after realizing they failed and taking advantage of playoff teams by getting first priority to trade for assets. Either decide, are you selling now, or going for it with the other teams. You don’t want contending/bubble playoff teams to get that advantage, for-sure non playoff teams get it at the deadline)
     
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  17. redcard System Poster

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    That's debatable, the purpose of the salary cap is as much to limit the growth of contract values as it is to add parity. So many teams spend near the cap, and every time it goes up their payroll increases to get right back up to it. 2/3rds of the league are within $2 mil of the cap, if you add $20 mil to the cap odds are it won't take long until all those teams are right back up against it. You haven't changed parity but you've taken $400+ mil from the owners and given it to the players.

    The LTIR loophole is annoying and should be addressed, but the cap is still fulfilling its primary purpose.
     
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  18. The Macho King World Champion*

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    Sorry we are cheating guys...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Mr Positive Cap Crunch Incoming

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    LTIR was always fundamentally flawed and destined to be abused like this. So a player gets injured, and the league gives you cap space so you can replace them. When they come back, you are just expected to get back under. After the trade deadline, you basically cannot. Before the deadline, you could make trades to get back under but it's not an easy thing, especially if you're a team like Tampa with a 9 million cap hit injured.

    Outside fans have an attitude like "tough, suffer then, you did this to yourself", but the league doesn't want that. They want it to run smoothly.
     
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  20. ItWasJustified Registered User

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    And they wouldn't be able to do that if the players in question wouldn't have been injured. I'm pretty sure every team in the league would like their players to be 100% healthy and in game fitness for the whole season. That's why the teams pay millions of dollars to the players after all. To be on the ice.
     
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  21. walkedpast Registered User

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    Simple solution - hard cap.
     
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  22. Leaves34 Registered User

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    I don’t think anyone is questioning if these players ARE injured or not, it’s more these teams dragging out these injury’s to their benefit.
    I think LTIR is great, it serves a worthwhile purpose.
    What isn’t great is on the first day of the playoffs, the salary cap that you had to stay compliant for the whole regular season is thrown out the window like it never existed.
     
  23. violaswallet Registered User

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    I'd just audit injuries; what Toronto and Tampa is doing that's iffy is extending the LTIR time of Andersen and Kucherov when they might be able to come back earlier.

    Heck, allow other teams to request an audit as a way to deal with the misincentives
     
  24. MGK Save us, Peyton Krebs

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    Tampa has paid through the nose to add Goodrow, Coleman and move Garrison. Luckily for them JT Miller had a lot of value to Vancouver.

    Toronto had to give up a 1st to get rid of Marleau.

    I don't know if I'd call losing one of the top players in the league (Kucherov) a blessing. He might not be 100% at any point in the playoffs.
     
  25. Albatros Registered User

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    Dozens of players are quite literally being paid to not to be on the ice.
     

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