The Myth of John Tavares and Unmet Potential - by an Isles Fan

[Rehabguy]

While on the Isles many of us defended him as nauseum as an elite player, but none of us saw him as Crosby level good. He was essentially Crosby without the wheels and that’s a big difference.

I am now convinced he would be a liability under Trotz system because it relies on man on man coverage and Tavares relatively poor skating would lead to breakdowns in Trotz system.

We saw too many times while on the Isles when he was too gassed or slow to make it back to the bench and he would overextend his shifts leading to a goal. He’s sound positionally, but Trotz system demands you don’t lose your man.

On another team he will do well but under Trotz I don’t think so. His backstabbing move was a blessing in disguise.

 

[Riseonfire]

Same old story. People only care about raw points with no context.

Linemates have been proven to have a significant effect on production, which results in those who play with lesser linemates being underappreciated and those who play on stacked lines being overrated.

Tavares has been an amazing player throughout his career, and I wish we could have seen what he could have done in his prime with many of the same advantages that other stars got.

Yes, BUT the effect is not even close to how HFers talk about it. People ALWAYS say "Image if you put X on a line with Y and Z???? He'd have 20 more goals EASILLLLYY.

It just doesn't work like that. Chemistry is a thing. Roles are things.

 

[Rehabguy]

Tavares got a nice shot in close and from relative distance, and he's got good playmaking instincts too, but while his skating has improved over the years it's never reached a point where he's looked to me like a dynamic game-breaking type of player who can combine first step rushes with dangerous stick-handling.

His first step “rush” is the step Barzal makes when he’s gassed and headed to the bench. Tavares doesn’t have a first step.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Tavares more or less became what I expected. An excellent goal scorer and point producer.

What he is not is an elite play driver or 2 way player. While he's made huge strides in his skating ability, that was always going to hold him back from being the type of dominant center that can take over entire games. He's still a great center, probably anywhere between 5-12 over the last 5ish years. But in order to be truly elite at that position you have to be able to dictate the play a bit more, and his mediocre skating just hasn't allowed him to do that. That's what has kept him out of the top 5 center discussion IMO.

But he's done exactly what he did in junior - score lots of goals while not being all that noticeable.

 

[Olliemets]

Isles fan coming in peace.

We hoped we were getting a generational talent when he arrived but learned pretty quickly that he wasn't.

What he was and is: one of the best players in traffic I've seen in 50 years of watching. Can stickhandle, pass and shoot with the best in a phone booth. Very strong on the puck. And would take a beating to make a play.

But in the open ice, I found him pretty unremarkable. A liability mostly in 3 on 3s and never good in the shootout.

He's not getting any faster or younger, so his leaving was probably best for all concerned. He got to go home and Isles moved on with a new management team. He (and us fans) were saddled with a terrible management group and questionable ownership.

We'd be further along if we received some assets for him, but we have enough bad contracts. Happy to not be stuck with his JTs current one.

 

[stator]

OP gets to pick his own questions to answer? How about having others pick the questions about JT, then answer those?

For the record, I don't believe there are any issues or concerns surrounding JT's career performance. I don't think he's at the level of Sidney Crosby or McDavid either.

 

[LGBlues]

His biggest problem is Toronto needed to spend that money on defense. Not enough incremental value to take that much of the cap.

 

[lorwood]

If he does not win a cup in his career then he is Dan Marino.

 

[mm11]

If he does not win a cup in his career then he is Dan Marino.

Atleast Marino had some records and some league hardware. JT, if I recall has none of that.

 

[lorwood]

Atleast Marino had some records and some league hardware. JT, if I recall has none of that.

My point is that Elite players, especially one's that wear a C, lead teams to championships. Lawrence Taylor, Derick Jeter, Tom Brady, Lebron Johnson these are elite players. Anything other than that and you are just throwing the word around.
JT did not have the support cast with the Isles granted, but now that excuse is gone. So if he is going to be considered elite then he has got some work ahead. Otherwise it's just another name on the scrap heap of players who did not get it done.

 

[Critical13]

If he does not win a cup in his career then he is Dan Marino.

Comparing him to Dan Marino doesn't make any sense. Marino would be more like McDavid.

Tavares isn't on that level nor will he ever be, that's a special level to be on.

 

[Critical13]

While on the Isles many of us defended him as nauseum as an elite player, but none of us saw him as Crosby level good. He was essentially Crosby without the wheels and that’s a big difference.

I am now convinced he would be a liability under Trotz system because it relies on man on man coverage and Tavares relatively poor skating would lead to breakdowns in Trotz system.

We saw too many times while on the Isles when he was too gassed or slow to make it back to the bench and he would overextend his shifts leading to a goal. He’s sound positionally, but Trotz system demands you don’t lose your man.

On another team he will do well but under Trotz I don’t think so. His backstabbing move was a blessing in disguise.

Are you serious?

This Islanders team with Trotz would be incredible with Tavares, 11 mil or not. There is a reason Lou offered 13.

I would call them the cup favoruites. If they can acquire a 40g type of player at C or a C as well, that's a scary lineup. As of right now, they feel like overacheivers who need help to get to that next level, ala the Raps last season.

NYI doesn't need Tavares, but damn would they look good with him.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Are you serious?

This Islanders team with Trotz would be incredible with Tavares, 11 mil or not. There is a reason Lou offered 13.

I would call them the cup favoruites. If they can acquire a 40g type of player at C or a C as well, that's a scary lineup. As of right now, they feel like overacheivers who need help to get to that next level, ala the Raps last season.

NYI doesn't need Tavares, but damn would they look good with him.

The Isles do not need to be in a cap crunch for a player that is showing a decline this season. They can use the 11m in capspace they saved to sign better and more key players as in their stud 2 way center Barzal, their stud shutdown D man in pulock and the underrated devon toews. All summer rfa’s. They are doing well without him, much better than when he was on the isles. We do not need to play a what if game to know this.

 

[hockeyes]

The obsession is getting pathetic, move on

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Good player but not a great player, over paid sure but he was going get it anyways. Does not seem to be cut out to be a leader either.

 

[saintunspecified]

NYI doesn't need Tavares, but damn would they look good with him.

I agree. They'd look almost as good as they would've looked had they landed Panarin.

 

[Mickey Marner]

If he does not win a cup in his career then he is Dan Marino.

More like Mats Sundin.

 

[ABCUser]

why was my post removed? Are we not allowed to talk about Tavares?

 

[TopCheese]

Good player but not a great player, over paid sure but he was going get it anyways. Does not seem to be cut out to be a leader either.

47 goals last year, 88 points, not a great player...... riiiiight

 

[authentic]

Tavares more or less became what I expected. An excellent goal scorer and point producer.

What he is not is an elite play driver or 2 way player. While he's made huge strides in his skating ability, that was always going to hold him back from being the type of dominant center that can take over entire games. He's still a great center, probably anywhere between 5-12 over the last 5ish years. But in order to be truly elite at that position you have to be able to dictate the play a bit more, and his mediocre skating just hasn't allowed him to do that. That's what has kept him out of the top 5 center discussion IMO.

But he's done exactly what he did in junior - score lots of goals while not being all that noticeable.

From 2012-16 he was a top 5 center though.

 

[Merrrlin]

Looks like playing under Keefe has re-energized him a bit this year.

12gp - 7g, 4a

48g, 27a, 75pt pace under this new guy. 3 goals in his last 4.

Looks like he's getting an extra minute or 2 TOI per game.

 

[The Macho King]

Looks like playing under Keefe has re-energized him a bit this year.

12gp - 7g, 4a

48g, 27a, 75pt pace under this new guy. 3 goals in his last 4.

Looks like he's getting an extra minute or 2 TOI per game.

Man - almost a ppg. Truly a beast.

 

[Merrrlin]

Man - almost a ppg. Truly a beast.

Point too

Players go through droughts, Tavares did at the start of the year. He's bouncing back.

 

[ScaredStreit]

I'm an Islander fan and watching Tavares leave sucked and did leave me a little bitter. With that said I've seen Isles fans say stuff like he wasn't even an elite player... GET. OVER. IT. ALREADY.

 

[ScaredStreit]

My point is that Elite players, especially one's that wear a C, lead teams to championships. Lawrence Taylor, Derick Jeter, Tom Brady, Lebron Johnson these are elite players. Anything other than that and you are just throwing the word around.
JT did not have the support cast with the Isles granted, but now that excuse is gone. So if he is going to be considered elite then he has got some work ahead. Otherwise it's just another name on the scrap heap of players who did not get it done.

So you're telling me Bourque wasn't an elite player on the Bruins...