The Myth of John Tavares and Unmet Potential - by an Isles Fan

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  1. The Winter Soldier Ray Bourque Rookie Card

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    That had all to do with the Isles change in systems. Isles led the league in GA, players sacrificed their offensive stats for the betterment of the team. But when they were focused on scoring with the same talent and system the year before, Barzal led the team in scoring as rookie. Not Tavares.
     
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  2. The Winter Soldier Ray Bourque Rookie Card

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    Just admit it. Leafs got Tavares to be a difference in the playoffs, to beat Boston specifically. The results speak for themselves. Bergeron was better than Tavares. He won the head to head match up, and really it was not close. Thus the Bruins moved on again.
     
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  3. X66 114-110

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    Don't think the Leafs expected Kadri to take another extending vacation during the playoffs.
     
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    If you have to rely on your #3C to win a series, this does not say much for your #1C does it?
     
  5. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    Except they had different line mates so the talent wasn’t the same, and Barzal played against 2nd pairings all year.

    Interesting that a player like Kadri accepts a different approach more tailored for a two way checking centre, and his number dip is considered regression. Barzal does it and its for the betterment of the team. Always interesting how you choose to spin these things.
    Admit what? I’m not privy to the discussions of the front office. From my perspective, the Leafs signed an elite centre to help their team offset the loss of JVR and Boxak. It’s hard to argue he didn’t do that.

    You’re trying to spin this as Tavares vs Bergeron but it was never that. The Leafs couldn’t kill a penalty and that was their achilles. The team needs to do a better job keeping the puck out of their net and that doesn’t really fall on Tavares... The boy wonder has tasked guys like Tyson Barrie (lol) to help in that regard.

    Watching the games might be helpful for you.
     
  6. X66 114-110

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    C'mon, what kind of comment is this TWS. You used to be much better at this bud, lol.
     
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    No, it's the truth. When you make a comment like losing Kadri was the reason why the Leafs lost the series, it looks really silly on your part. Bergeron being better than Tavares was infinitely more a reason. You can give credit to Bergeron, his value does not only lie on the stats he puts up, but by the stats he doesn't put up because he makes Boston so much better, Can you argue the same thing for Tavares? Leafs got less points than the season before with Bozak(who did win a cup) and the results in the playoffs were the same. Infact they were closer to winning game 7 the season before. The bottom line is while Tavares puts up good numbers. He has yet to be a difference in winning the playoffs. This is the true measure of a great player. Not individualistic points.
     
  8. X66 114-110

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    Don't know if this is serious or not, but you're embarrassing yourself now.
     
  9. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    How silly do you look suggesting the 1v1 matchup of Tavares/Bergeron was the reason the Leafs lost the series?

    Maybe we’ll add the Leafs futile penalty kill to Tavares’ list of faults? Lol

    “Skiiiiiyup”
     
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  10. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    40BA2EB7-CFB5-4AA0-8793-C7EE5D24F1E7.jpeg
     
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  11. Bood12 Registered User

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    guessing you did not watch alot of him prior to being on the Leafs, I am guessing he is different player on the Leafs as I am sure that is where his heart is and was all along, however I can assure you there were many nights on the Islanders he was practically invisible out there.

    most players are not able to play along or with 2 elite or possibly elite players in Matthews and Marner, take away 1 of those guys I am pretty sure he is not having the season he is having, granted on the Islanders he was playing with no elite players, however he was blessed to make the jump to playing with 2 and a guy who finished in the top 3 in defensive scoring, most players are not able to do that.

    Marners demands I am guessing are strengthened because of Tavares, it seemed before Tavares signed Marner was talked at maybe around 8.5 Million and Matthews 10, I am guessing Tavares helped both of those guys based on his salary and the point production increase(better leverage).
     
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  12. TheBeastCoast Registered User

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    Tavares helped Marner because he played with him and Marner finished with 90 plus points but Dubas is on record that his first meeting as GM was with Marners camp to get a deal done....this is always what Marner wanted.
     
  13. Bood12 Registered User

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    was salary discussed? so before Tavares came along Marner wanted 10M+ which is what I am assuming he is going for now?
     
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  14. 2LeftSkates Registered User

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    You keep pushing your agenda(no smoking gun, blah, blah, blah), some of us are going to keep pushing back because it is BS.
     
  15. NiL8r87 Registered User

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    They both had 5 pts, Tavares had 3 at 5v5 compared to Bergeron's 1, and the shot attempts weren't drastically different. Tavares also had a much lower off zone st% compared to Bergeron.
     
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  16. aufheben #Panarin4Hart

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    I feel like Barzal’s role was more or less the same, and Nelson actually “replaced” Tavares. Trotz did something similar with Backstrom/Kuznetsov IIRC. I may be wrong but I think people just assume Barzal took over for Tavares because he’s their best player.

    Like why would you give a 21-year-old the toughest matchups when you have the option to put out Lee-Nelson-Eberle/Bailey instead?
     
  17. Sidney the Kidney Missing Link

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    I'd say Barry Trotz's system had a lot to do with the drop in offense, seeing as how the previous year Doug Weight just basically let them run and gun if they wanted to. Barzal's production level at this point in his career is probably somewhere in between the run and gun system and the defensively tight system.

    Do people forget that Tavares' first two years in the league weren't anything special? 54 points and 67 points, respectively, aren't exactly better than Barzal's "rude awakening" of 62 points. Let's not act like Tavares came into the league as a point per game player every year, while Barzal "struggled" with 62 points in his sophomore season.
     
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  18. HabsTown Registered User

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    I won't get involved in this thread (I think Tavares is an amazing player), but just wanted to say kudos to OP for a thoughtful & well written post. It was refreshing to read.
     
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  19. Twowingcantfly Registered User

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    Dude he was on the ice for 11 goals against in one round vs Boston.
     
  20. Twowingcantfly Registered User

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    When we signed JT, I was shocked. First we had no problem filling the net. Our need was a 2 way center. Not a scorer with holes in his defensive game. I was not surprised Bergeron blew JT away. Marner was defending all series covering for his poor skating. When it was time to score Mitch had no gas left in the tank.
     
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  21. Twowingcantfly Registered User

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    Dude. Our team were taking bad penalties after JT giveaways in that Boston series. Watch this upcoming season. Tell me how many times JT stand his ground to screen the opposing net minder(without peeling away). Tell me how many blocked shots he gets. Mitch had more BS in one game than JT had the entire season. He always seem to be covering the wrong man in his own end. You need to watch the games with an open mind. Might be 2067 before we win another cup.
     
  22. Pancakes Registered User

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    People say this a lot but I'm not sure how true it is. You need good players on your team to win Cups, but I'm not sure you need good players on your team to put up good seasons and high point totals. I think that - aside from rare cases where the chemistry is special - that guys will generally put up the same offensive seasons regardless of who they play with. The most important thing is not linemates but ice time, and the top players get plenty of that no matter where they play.
     
  23. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    Please don’t jump into a conversation to dispute a point I wasn’t making. I wasn’t selling Tavares as a defensive stud, I said it was silly to suggest the matchup between him and Bergeron is what decided the series. That is silly.

    Who is ‘our team’? Do I know you?

    While I appreciate your advice on how to watch the game, I’ve done quite well to this point. Thanks anyway.

    I’m also in the wrong industry to consider ever winning a Stanley cup so it’s not something I worry about.
     
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  24. Merrrlin The soothing sounds of a supercharged PV-12

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    Interesting. I am sure smarter people than I have data on this, but I simply can't imagine that's true. I think you put Kucherov on a line with RNH and Lucic, with Nurse and Larsson on defence and I just don't see him scoring at near the same clip. Right now he goes on the PP with the 2nd best goalscorer of the decade, and up and coming 40g scorer, a Norris winner, and another good player - there is no way that doesn't boost his stats significantly.

    The fact that it boosts him doesn't make him any less the 2nd/3rd best forward in the game, it just means his volume of points will be higher than it would have been with scrubs.
     
  25. The90 Registered User

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    The hate and ‘he’s not a great #1 player would be much different if he didn’t play for the leafs. That alone means that he gets flack regardless of his contract / how he left.

    He absolutely is an exceptional talent.
     
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