Except they had different line mates so the talent wasn’t the same, and Barzal played against 2nd pairings all year.
Admit what? I’m not privy to the discussions of the front office. From my perspective, the Leafs signed an elite centre to help their team offset the loss of JVR and Boxak. It’s hard to argue he didn’t do that.
No, it's the truth. When you make a comment like losing Kadri was the reason why the Leafs lost the series, it looks really silly on your part. Bergeron being better than Tavares was infinitely more a reason. You can give credit to Bergeron, his value does not only lie on the stats he puts up, but by the stats he doesn't put up because he makes Boston so much better, Can you argue the same thing for Tavares? Leafs got less points than the season before with Bozak(who did win a cup) and the results in the playoffs were the same. Infact they were closer to winning game 7 the season before. The bottom line is while Tavares puts up good numbers. He has yet to be a difference in winning the playoffs. This is the true measure of a great player. Not individualistic points.
How silly do you look suggesting the 1v1 matchup of Tavares/Bergeron was the reason the Leafs lost the series?
Marners demands I am guessing are strengthened because of Tavares, it seemed before Tavares signed Marner was talked at maybe around 8.5 Million and Matthews 10, I am guessing Tavares helped both of those guys based on his salary and the point production increase(better leverage).
Tavares helped Marner because he played with him and Marner finished with 90 plus points but Dubas is on record that his first meeting as GM was with Marners camp to get a deal done....this is always what Marner wanted.
was salary discussed? so before Tavares came along Marner wanted 10M+ which is what I am assuming he is going for now?
You keep pushing your agenda(no smoking gun, blah, blah, blah), some of us are going to keep pushing back because it is BS.
I feel like Barzal’s role was more or less the same, and Nelson actually “replaced” Tavares. Trotz did something similar with Backstrom/Kuznetsov IIRC. I may be wrong but I think people just assume Barzal took over for Tavares because he’s their best player.
When we signed JT, I was shocked. First we had no problem filling the net. Our need was a 2 way center. Not a scorer with holes in his defensive game. I was not surprised Bergeron blew JT away. Marner was defending all series covering for his poor skating. When it was time to score Mitch had no gas left in the tank.
Dude. Our team were taking bad penalties after JT giveaways in that Boston series. Watch this upcoming season. Tell me how many times JT stand his ground to screen the opposing net minder(without peeling away). Tell me how many blocked shots he gets. Mitch had more BS in one game than JT had the entire season. He always seem to be covering the wrong man in his own end. You need to watch the games with an open mind. Might be 2067 before we win another cup.
Please don’t jump into a conversation to dispute a point I wasn’t making. I wasn’t selling Tavares as a defensive stud, I said it was silly to suggest the matchup between him and Bergeron is what decided the series. That is silly.
The hate and ‘he’s not a great #1 player would be much different if he didn’t play for the leafs. That alone means that he gets flack regardless of his contract / how he left.I have been thinking about writing this post for over a month now. I've noticed on different areas of this website, John has been disrespected or generally underrated or underappreciated.
What I've read:
- John got overpaid
- John never reached his potential
- John wasn't a great #1 pick
- John's career has been a letdown
Now just so we're clear, I am not interested in discussing how he left our team...as most Islander fans would agree, we're dissapointed. There's no way around that, even if he did give us some good years. If I had it my way, we would have hired Lou and Trotz 5 years ago and John's story with us may be completely different.
Good. That's out of the way. Lets look at some of John's stats.
I recently read in the prospects forum that a certain prospect is similar to Tavares, and it was meant as an insult. Posters claimed he isn't elite, and that you can find better players in every draft, so it's a disappointing comparison. Let's take a look:
*source: QuantHockey.com[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Range Goals Assists Points P/GP 2 years (164gp) 2nd 36th 7th 15th 5 years (401gp) 2nd 22nd 6th 8th 10 years (751gp) 3rd 16th 7th 15th
In the last 10 years, the only players with more goals are:
- Alex Ovechkin
- Steven Stamkos
In the last 10 years, the only players with more points are:
- Sidney Crosby
- Patrick Kane
- Alex Ovechkin
- Claude Giroux
- Steven Stamkos
- Nicklas Backstrom
Take a look at that list. Can you name a player on that list who accomplished that with less help? Our Islander teams have been awful. The best players John Tavares has played with are (by P/GP in last 10 years for NYI players):
*source: NHL.com
- Thomas Vanek (only 47 gp)
- Mathew Barzal (only 1 season)
- PA Parentau
- Matt Moulsen
- Brad Boyes
- Kyle Okposo
Look at that list. Those were the best P/GP players that played for the Islanders with John over his last 10 seasons with our franchise. There is no Malkin, no Kessel, no Carlson or Backstrom, no Hedman or Kucherov, no Toews or Keith....PA Parentau and Matt Moulsen...
CONCLUSION
John Tavares has been an elite player his entire career. No one in his class of players (top scorers) over his career even come close to having as little support. Hockey is a team game, and point totals are heavily influenced by the talent around you.
How can you call his contract an overpayment? Look at his goal scoring proficiency!
- John got overpaid
Finishing top 15 in the last decade with no help, and top 3 in goals. What more can you really expect from a player, even a #1 OA pick?
- John never reached his potential
See above.
- John wasn't a great #1 pick
This one is harder to answer. I remember an unbelievable amount of excitement when we drafted him. He didn't bring us a cup, and he left, so as an Islander...well, maybe you could say his time with us was a disappointment. We didn't give him any help.
- John's career has been a letdown
However, as a player separate from the emotional aspect, I would say he's had a great career. One of the best goal scorers of the decade, and possibly of a generation. In the top 0.1% in terms of production.
