The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread

[vcv]

To expand...

There is no guarantee that if he stayed up that Quebec would lose in their first round and he'd be able to go to the AHL. If Quebec won, he would be stuck here. They obviously didn't want to risk that.

The AHL season doesn't end until April 21st, which would somewhere near the end of the 3rd round of the QMJHL playoffs. Even if Quebec goes all the way, it would probably still be done in time for Mikhail to at least join the Amerks for some of the playoffs.

 

[angry pirate]

jfb will probably correct me here, but this is my understanding:
- AHL/CHL agreement: Any player in junior can play in the AHL once their junior season is over (whether on a pro contract (like Mikhail) or an Amateur Try-Out contract (like I believe Dan Cat was last year))
- NHL rule No player may be assigned to the AHL after April 3rd (NHL Trade Deadline) unless that player was recalled from the AHL to the NHL after the trade deadline.

So if Mikhail were up here still, Quebec would have had to been eliminated by April 3rd for him to be allowed to play in the AHL.

While AHL eliminated the Clear Day Roster for this year, the NHL won't allow players to be loaned/returned to the AHL after April 3rd unless they were recalled after April 3rd.

So it would have taken a 1st round upset of the Remparts in order for Mikhail to be eligible for demotion.

By returning him to Junior, he'll now be eligible once/if Quebec is eliminated? I guess I'm asking if by returning him to junior, are they avoiding the April 3rd requirement? Or does any player have to have played in the AHL by April 3rd to be eligible for playoffs?

So now I'm wondering if maybe Buffalo management thought getting Mikhail some AHL/CHL playoff experience would be best and the only way to guarantee his spot in the AHL was to demote him now?

 

[vcv]

So it would have taken a 1st round upset of the Remparts in order for Mikhail to be eligible for demotion.

By returning him to Junior, he'll now be eligible once/if Quebec is eliminated? I guess I'm asking if by returning him to junior, are they avoiding the April 3rd requirement? Or does any player have to have played in the AHL by April 3rd to be eligible for playoffs?

So now I'm wondering if maybe Buffalo management thought getting Mikhail some AHL/CHL playoff experience would be best and the only way to guarantee his spot in the AHL was to demote him now?

Correct. He is no longer on the NHL active roster for the team, so they can't "send him down". The NHL rule only applies to plays on the NHL team's active roster.

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

Also, don't know if anyone heard this, but Paul Hamilton says he's heard that "he's not the hardest worker" (here starting at 6:45).
Ick.

He does qualify it by saying he looks like he's working hard from what he's seen and that he's not behind closed doors, but "there's a faction in the organization that feels he needs to work harder".

Man, I hope this isn't true. All the talent in the world.

 

[Kilts79]

Man, I hope this isn't true. All the talent in the world.

You can see it in his game play its painfully obvious. He doesn't move his feet and he's lazy as hell.

 

[Shoey]

You can see it in his game play its painfully obvious. He doesn't move his feet and he's lazy as hell.

translation: he's not north American so he's obviously lazy.

we've been hearing the same thing about Vanek for years.

 

[jfb392]

translation: he's not north American so he's obviously lazy.

we've been hearing the same thing about Vanek for years.

There are plenty of North American players that would be more effective if they just moved their feet.
And Vanek may as well be North American at this point, having spent 15 of his 29 years here.
Doesn't change the fact that he looks like a superstar when engaged and moving his feet and the opposite when he's not.

Grigorenko has unfortunately fully earned his lazy tag over the years.
Having watched him for some time now, he teases you with his skill and other times is nowhere to be found.
You love the skill, but the other stuff scares you and makes you think he's nothing but a long-term project that you have to hope like hell finds a way to "get it" eventually.
It's unfortunate, because he looked to be getting over it last season.

 

[RazielMoshman]

There are plenty of North American players that would be more effective if they just moved their feet.
And Vanek may as well be North American at this point, having spent 15 of his 29 years here.
Doesn't change the fact that he looks like a superstar when engaged and moving his feet and the opposite when he's not.

Grigorenko has unfortunately fully earned his lazy tag over the years.
Having watched him for some time now, he teases you with his skill and other times is nowhere to be found.
You love the skill, but the other stuff scares you and makes you think he's nothing but a long-term project that you have to hope like hell finds a way to "get it" eventually.
It's unfortunate, because he looked to be getting over it last season.

His earned that lazy take for the same reason Vanek has. He plays while injured or unwell and doesn't look as good. 'More assuming' people tend to take that as laziness. Neither are lazy players.

While it's true to say players from outside of NA/Canada get tagged with this more I think it's more coincidental, they come from a different type of game.

 

[jfb392]

His earned that lazy take for the same reason Vanek has. He plays while injured or unwell and doesn't look as good. 'More assuming' people tend to take that as laziness. Neither are lazy players.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't injured when he led his team to a loss in in the Ivan Hlinka playoff round in which they had a whopping six shots on goal in the entire game.
This may seem trivial, but it was his third Hlinka as he had played with the 92's and 93's.
He was also the best player on his team and had plenty of prior international experience.
Performances like that are what earn him labels like "enigma" and "lazy".

All due respect, but I'm pretty sure I've watched him since long before you even knew who he was.

 

[joshjull]

I'm pretty sure he wasn't injured when he led his team to a loss in in the Ivan Hlinka playoff round in which they had a whopping six shots on goal in the entire game.
This may seem trivial, but it was his third Hlinka as he had played with the 92's and 93's.
He was also the best player on his team and had plenty of prior international experience.
Performances like that are what earn him labels like "enigma" and "lazy".

All due respect, but I'm pretty sure I've watched him since long before you even knew who he was.

Could some of the lazy tag come from his skating style?

 

[jfb392]

Could some of the lazy tag come from his skating style?

It's a combination of that and his style of game.
He's not going to be physical and he's going to look for the fancy play first, so he ends up making some bad turnovers.

 

[RazielMoshman]

I'm pretty sure he wasn't injured when he led his team to a loss in in the Ivan Hlinka playoff round in which they had a whopping six shots on goal in the entire game.
This may seem trivial, but it was his third Hlinka as he had played with the 92's and 93's.
He was also the best player on his team and had plenty of prior international experience.
Performances like that are what earn him labels like "enigma" and "lazy".

All due respect, but I'm pretty sure I've watched him since long before you even knew who he was.

Probably so, I still disagree that either player is any more lazy than any other player in the NHL. There are certain players who can be classified as lazy, moreso than most, I really don't think Van or Grig are players with such tags.

 

[The Washer]

It's a combination of that and his style of game.
He's not going to be physical and he's going to look for the fancy play first, so he ends up making some bad turnovers.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=61876015&postcount=509

"Despite the flashes of skill and brilliance, Datsyuk was weak, soft, and shy. When I say shy, I mean that on the ice as well. At times it seemed like he was shy to engage.

The following two seasons he continued to blossom offensively. During his 3rd season (the first without Fedorov) he was given a bigger role and took it by the horns. In December of that year, he was actually leading the NHL in points at a point in time. "

This is why Grigs should of stayed. #NuffSaid #MisManaged

 

[start winnin]

What we initially thought about Grigs' UFA years was correct, we did not bring him one year closer to FA, according to McKenzie anyway.

 

[Revo]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=61876015&postcount=509

"Despite the flashes of skill and brilliance, Datsyuk was weak, soft, and shy. When I say shy, I mean that on the ice as well. At times it seemed like he was shy to engage.

The following two seasons he continued to blossom offensively. During his 3rd season (the first without Fedorov) he was given a bigger role and took it by the horns. In December of that year, he was actually leading the NHL in points at a point in time. "

This is why Grigs should of stayed. #NuffSaid #MisManaged

He should have stayed because a 23 years old, 0,5 ppg Datsyuk did stay, three years after being drafted?

 

[enthusiast]

What we initially thought about Grigs' UFA years was correct, we did not bring him one year closer to FA, according to McKenzie anyway.

If true, this is a *big deal*

 

[jfb392]

What we initially thought about Grigs' UFA years was correct, we did not bring him one year closer to FA, according to McKenzie anyway.

He's incorrect.
Here's some tweets from he and Button:

TSNBobMcKenzie I missed this when BUF sent Grigorenko to QMJHL. Had he played 1 more NHL game (23rd), season would have counted towards free agency.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314571452198305792

TSNBobMcKenzie In full NHL season, 40 GP counts as "year's service" toward 7 req'd for UFA status. In lockout shortened season, it's 23. Grigs played 22.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314571934388084738

TSNBobMcKenzie So while Grigorenko burned 1st year of entry level deal by playing 6 games, this season doesn't count towards service time req'd for UFA.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314572543879172096

You'll notice that he's incorrect in his claim of 40GP normally counts, when it's 40 games on the Active Roster.

Craig later:

CraigJButton 1/3. Only person asleep at wheel was me. CBA definition for "Accrued Season" is number of games a player was on active roster. (Cont.)

http://twitter.com/CraigJButton/status/314615662960078848

CraigJButton 2/3: Thus Grigorenko & Matteau while not playing 23 games were on team's roster for 23 games & gain 1 accrued season for purposes of UFA.

http://twitter.com/CraigJButton/status/314616057132351489

CraigJButton 3/3: Nuance of CBA & I should know better. Learn everyday but I was wrong. @TSNBobMcKenzie wasn't wrong. It was I who was ill informed.

http://twitter.com/CraigJButton/status/314617198700265472

So, yes, it's a UFA year.

Edit: There you go:

TSNBobMcKenzie Correction on last night's tweet re: Grigorenko's year of accrued service. As some pointed out, it's 23 on roster, not 23 GP. My mistake.

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314723240117407744

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

He should have stayed because a 23 years old, 0,5 ppg Datsyuk did stay, three years after being drafted?

I think the part of the point is the Sabres and everyone need to be patient and let the kid develop in junior and the AHL. As I'm sure you know, not everyone comes into the league at 18 or 19 and lights it up just because they have the talent. I wish he would have come in on fire, but I think he's too immature

The other point would be the drive to work on his "weaknesses" in his game fall solely on Grigs. Not every 18 year old is mature enough to put it together at such a young age even with all the talent in the world. The NHL was obviously too much for him, but maybe if he really wants to excel in the league, he definitely is going to have to put the work in to become a complete player. If his compete level, defensive play, conditioning and skating ever catch up to his other natural offensive talent, creativity, and vision, he will be among the NHL elite.

 

[misterchainsaw]

He's incorrect.
Here's some tweets from he and Button:

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314571452198305792


http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314571934388084738


http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314572543879172096

You'll notice that he's incorrect in his claim of 40GP normally counts, when it's 40 games on the Active Roster.

Craig later:

http://twitter.com/CraigJButton/status/314615662960078848


http://twitter.com/CraigJButton/status/314616057132351489


http://twitter.com/CraigJButton/status/314617198700265472

So, yes, it's a UFA year.

Edit: There you go:

http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/314723240117407744

Refreshing to see a journalist admit his error. Certain "journalists" from Buffalo should take note.

 

[couture23]

I really don't think this is a big deal. Yeah, it's a nuisance but it's not like we're strapped for cash here or anything.

 

[sabresfan129103]

Not a good night for the Remparts. They lose 6-3 and that's against a 12 seed. Grigorenko had 2 assists though.

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

Not a good night for the Remparts. They lose 6-3 and that's against a 12 seed. Grigorenko had 2 assists though.

It's a good opportunity to see how they (especially Grigs) respond today.

 

[sabresfan129103]

Grigs with 3 points (3A) with 8 minutes to go in the 3rd. The Remparts are up 5-0.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

So maybe call up was good for grigs, is that 9 points in 3 games now

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

5 points (all assists) in 2 playoff games. Not bad so far. Let's hope he keeps it up. Score a goal kid!