The Mikhail Grigorenko Thread

[cramdizzl]

No one is talking about that behind the net behind the back pass?

Gorgeous.

 

[ZZamboni]

Grigorenko looks great when he has more time and space to create. Very little of that in the NHL. Hopefully he'll catch up, find his game and develop that vision at an NHL level.

 

[joshjull]

Are there any sites that's will be steaming Grigs' playoff games?

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Are there any sites that's will be steaming Grigs' playoff games?

http://telus.pqm.net/main.php

6.95$CAN per game.

You can be 3-4 people watching the same game at the same time at different places so if you know other Sabres fans, you can share the cost.

3 other Remparts fans and I shared the same account all season and we never had problems watching games at the same time.

 

[Veritas0Aequitas]

Grigorenko looks great when he has more time and space to create. Very little of that in the NHL. Hopefully he'll catch up, find his game and develop that vision at an NHL level.

That's what I worry about as well. Maybe he just needs time to develop but he definitely needs to improve his skating and get up to NHL speed when it comes to his decision making.

 

[ottawa]

I agree with the Kadri comparison in the sense that he's a project.
He has desirable skills, but some undesirable traits.

IMO though Kadri would not have become an NHL player without the constant whipping he got with the Marlies.
It remains to be seen if Grigorenko needs the same treatment, if he'll get it, and if he'll do his part.

Yeah but imo I think Grigorenko is more likely to reach his potential than Kadri was, there were times when Kadri seemed to be improving only to make it appear as if he reached his ceiling before he started to improve again after a while longer. I think Grigorenko's development will be slow and steady but gradual (i.e. no big bumps along the way) but hey, only time will tell! I know a lot of habs fans compare Galchenyuk and Grigs all the time and Gachenyuk seems like the better one right now but 25 games from each players doesn't even tell a fraction of the story. Regardless of who's better in the end, I hope both these rookies turn out to become great centermen in the NHL.

 

[jfb392]

Big news:

The fact both players played beyond the five-game limit that burned a year off their entry-level deals was, relatively speaking, consequential. But contrary to popular belief, the Devils and Sabres did indeed burn a year off the accrued seasons requirement for both players, meaning Matteau and Grigorenko will be eligible for unrestricted free agency one year earlier than they would have been if they were returned to junior before hitting the required amount of games.

NHL rules state that any player who is on the active roster for 40 games is awarded an accrued season, regardless of how many games the player actually plays. But THN.com has learned that because of the truncated season, that 40-game limit was pro-rated to 23.4 games to accommodate for a 48-game season. Matteau was on the roster for the Devils’ first 29 games of the season, 17 in which he saw action. Grigorenko was on Buffalo’s roster for 27 games, playing in all but five of them.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...-Devils-keep-Grigorenko-Matteau-too-long.html

So, not only is the clock ticking on his ELC regardless of if he plays in the NHL next year, he's also a year closer to UFA after all.
Darcy rules.

 

[1972]

Big news:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...-Devils-keep-Grigorenko-Matteau-too-long.html

So, not only is the clock ticking on his ELC regardless of if he plays in the NHL next year, he's also a year closer to UFA after all.
Darcy rules.

so he will be a UFA at 25? great..

burning a year of his ELC was not a big deal to me, this actually pisses me off because it could have easily been avoided by sending him back a couple weeks ago.

 

[enthusiast]

Big news:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...-Devils-keep-Grigorenko-Matteau-too-long.html

So, not only is the clock ticking on his ELC regardless of if he plays in the NHL next year, he's also a year closer to UFA after all.
Darcy rules.

put him on retroactive IR for those scratches

 

[dire wolf]

Big news:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...-Devils-keep-Grigorenko-Matteau-too-long.html

So, not only is the clock ticking on his ELC regardless of if he plays in the NHL next year, he's also a year closer to UFA after all.
Darcy rules.

Ouch. That does suck. Looks like Big Lou made the same mistake.

EDIT: Of course, this may not turn out to matter as long as they negotiate an extension before he turns UFA. Obviously, that 1 year will likely cost more, but again, we are just talking about dollars (I know there are cap considerations)

 

[Woodhouse]

2013 QMJHL Playoffs - First Round

Game 1: Fri Mar 22 - Chicoutimi at Quebec - 07:00 PM - Colisée Pepsi
Game 2: Sat Mar 23 - Chicoutimi at Quebec - 07:00 PM - Colisée Pepsi
Game 3: Tue Mar 26 - Quebec at Chicoutimi - 07:30 PM - Centre Georges-Vézina
Game 4: Wed Mar 27 - Quebec at Chicoutimi - 07:30 PM - Centre Georges-Vézina
x - Game 5: Fri Mar 29 - Chicoutimi at Quebec - 07:00 PM - Colisée Pepsi
x - Game 6: Sun Mar 31 - Quebec at Chicoutimi - 04:00 PM - Centre Georges-Vézina
x - Game 7: Tue Apr 2 - Chicoutimi at Quebec - 07:00 PM - Colisée Pepsi

 

[joshjull]

Big news:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...-Devils-keep-Grigorenko-Matteau-too-long.html

So, not only is the clock ticking on his ELC regardless of if he plays in the NHL next year, he's also a year closer to UFA after all.
Darcy rules.

That is depressing and I'm roasting up some crow right now.

 

[Tachycineta]

I tried my best. Even though he only played in 9 games, when pie was returned to juniors on jan 6th, 2010, the blues had played 41 games. Of course, pie probably was not on the active roster from dec 17th onward bc of wjcs so it doesn't cone close to 40. Bit technically, the blues spread out the 9 games he played so he was on the active roster rhe other dates. But the wjcs ruin my attempt.

 

[VaporTrail]

oh man D'arse needs to go

 

[jBuds]

so he will be a UFA at 25? great..

burning a year of his ELC was not a big deal to me, this actually pisses me off because it could have easily been avoided by sending him back a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, how's that calculated scenario working out for you now Darcy?

Edit: didn't see your post joshjull, was going to call you out and then scrolled down a bit oops

 

[jfb392]

so he will be a UFA at 25? great..

burning a year of his ELC was not a big deal to me, this actually pisses me off because it could have easily been avoided by sending him back a couple weeks ago.

Well, it depends on how things go, but yeah, it's essentially going towards that.

Many can make the case that it doesn't matter because they can just sign him to a longer extension later, but this was completely needless and could have been avoided.

put him on retroactive IR for those scratches

I know you're joking, but just as a precaution if anyone takes it seriously: it's based on games on the Active Roster, which in this case includes players with non long-term hockey-related injuries (long-term meaning injuries that keep a player out multiple season).

Ouch. That does suck. Looks like Big Lou made the same mistake.

Not surprising, because as I said, he's getting a bit senile.

That is depressing and I'm roasting up some crow right now.

I missed the initial thread on the re-assignment, but I was fine with it (even though it was a mistake from the beginning) as long as this didn't happen.

This just shows mind boggling incompetence.
They gained very little to absolutely nothing for it and lost in just about every possible way.

I tried my best. Even though he only played in 9 games, when pie was returned to juniors on jan 6th, 2010, the blues had played 41 games. Of course, pie probably was not on the active roster from dec 17th onward bc of wjcs so it doesn't cone close to 40. Bit technically, the blues spread out the 9 games he played so he was on the active roster rhe other dates. But the wjcs ruin my attempt.

Pietrangelo would have been re-assigned in early December for training camp and returned during the first week of January, so he was probably around 30 games or so.


Anyways, I'm going to try to get some clarification on this just to be absolutely sure.
The Hockey News sucks sometimes.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah, how's that calculated scenario working out for you now Darcy?

Edit: didn't see your post joshjull, was going to call you out and then scrolled down a bit oops

I really wanted to believe the work with Grigs was a thought out plan. Because the alternative was a GM out to lunch. That crow was bitter tasting.

I'm getting very nervous about the idea of Regier at the helm trying to rebuild this team. He made the team worse from last year. That would have been fine if he was looking to rebuild but be wasn't. He thought he had put a playoff team together.

I'm actually amazed some posters are giving him credit for getting a jump start on the rebuild. How is it a good thing your GM built a crappy team when he thought he put together a playoff team? A GM that out to lunch is the one you want to rebuild the franchise?

 

[jBuds]

I really wanted to believe the work with Grigs was a thought out plan. Because the alternative was a GM out to lunch. That crow was bitter tasting.

I'm getting very nervous about the idea of Regier at the helm trying to rebuild this team. He made the team worse from last year. That would have been fine if he was looking to rebuild but be wasn't. He thought he had put a playoff team together.

I'm actually amazed some posters are giving him credit for getting a jump start on the rebuild. How is it a good thing your GM built a crappy team when he thought he put together a playoff team? A GM that out to lunch is the one you want to rebuild the franchise?

I'm eating crow there. I was on board with Darcy to start the year. Had a nice draft, got coho... Foligno floundered, Ennis has been okay but hasn't taken a mammoth leap into #2C territory as of yet, and he *****ed the **** out of the Grigs scenario. I'm mixed now on him.

Someone on NHLradio opined when I was listening the other night that Regier is out if his element with pressure to spend now that he can. He said that its not Regier's style to be a big spender in FA and with Pegula willing to pay for guys, Regier feels forced into having to do so. Shackles are off and Regier can't handle it, it seems, was his point - though he was making that point in Regier's defense, not to bash him.

He also said that Black and Pegula view Regier as a "hockey genius"... Wish I could link the clip, it was filled with a lot of talk on Darcy. Interesting chatter, too.

Edit: re Grigs. I couldn't give Regier credit for mapping out such a detailed plan regarding Mikhail. It truly appears to be the case that he thought he was ready and was wrong, then waited too long to send him back

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

The more I look at things the more it looks like they thought the entire season was goin to be scrapped. The roster wasn't rdy for opening night, there was seamingly 0 plan for Grigorenko except "hey he looked good in juniors". 10 defenseman with only 4 quality starters amongst them, no third line center no idea how to make a fourth line with the fighters they brought in. The oldest center on the roster is 23. Individually everything about this season can be defended but put all together... Shoulda worn hip boots to wade through this fetid pool of afterbirth they've cobbled together.

If the plan for Grigorenko was to taste the NHL he should of gotten 15-16 mins a night for 5 games then send him down. If you weren't willing to take Ennis and Hodgson out then there was no point in keeping him.

DR thought he was gonna get snowday and didn't do his homework as a result now he's stuck in ****tsburg trying to order a sandwich and that sandwich is made of ass and poo just like his hockey team is.

 

[jfb392]

I really wanted to believe the work with Grigs was a thought out plan. Because the alternative was a GM out to lunch. That crow was bitter tasting.

I'm getting very nervous about the idea of Regier at the helm trying to rebuild this team. He made the team worse from last year. That would have been fine if he was looking to rebuild but be wasn't. He thought he had put a playoff team together.

I'm actually amazed some posters are giving him credit for getting a jump start on the rebuild. How is it a good thing your GM built a crappy team when he thought he put together a playoff team? A GM that out to lunch is the one you want to rebuild the franchise?

I think he may have thought he put together a fringe playoff team that could rebuild on the fly, but no one can really be sure.

I do not want him at the helm for any type of rebuild though, as he has handled things poorly so far.
If you're going to build for the future, your most precious asset is your youth.
Rather than handling them with care, he threw them to the wolves.

I'm eating crow there. I was on board with Darcy to start the year. Had a nice draft, got coho... Foligno floundered, Ennis has been okay but hasn't taken a mammoth leap into #2C territory as of yet, and he *****ed the **** out of the Grigs scenario. I'm mixed now on him.

I was just okay with him.
I liked the Hodgson acquisition and I liked his draft, but hated much of it after.
I've obviously been very critical of his handling of Girgensons and Grigorenko, but providing no support to his young roster players is a fail too.
It's not surprising though, as his ability to build a roster over the years has seemingly been questionable.
There's too many spare parts just thrown together.

Someone on NHLradio opined when I was listening the other night that Regier is out if his element with pressure to spend now that he can. He said that its not Regier's style to be a big spender in FA and with Pegula willing to pay for guys, Regier feels forced into having to do so. Shackles are off and Regier can't handle it, it seems, was his point - though he was making that point in Regier's defense, not to bash him.

I think I'd agree with that assessment.
While he was forced to be conservative to a fault before, he's now somewhat reckless.
If he could find a middle ground, maybe he'd be fine, but it's one extreme or the other I guess.

He also said that Black and Pegula view Regier as a "hockey genius"... Wish I could link the clip, it was filled with a lot of talk on Darcy. Interesting chatter, too.

Terrible, if true.

Edit: re Grigs. I couldn't give Regier credit for mapping out such a detailed plan regarding Mikhail. It truly appears to be the case that he thought he was ready and was wrong, then waited too long to send him back

Even if he did have some kind of plan, it was never well thought out.
It was never sound to keep him on the roster simply to learn and improve aspects of his game since his play in junior did not merit him making the team and he could have improved over the course of several seasons, development camps, and training camps.
There was no reason to try to develop him immediately.

Of course, to be able to realize this, you have to be able to evaluate your team correctly.

The roster wasn't rdy for opening night, there was seamingly 0 plan for Grigorenko except "hey he looked good in juniors".

He didn't though, IMO.
If this was a combination of evaluation by Darcy and their new scout based in Québec City, both need to go.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I cannot see how any "professional" could come to the conclusion that he was deserving of an NHL roster spot this season.

If the plan for Grigorenko was to taste the NHL he should of gotten 15-16 mins a night for 5 games then send him down. If you weren't willing to take Ennis and Hodgson out then there was no point in keeping him.

Maybe I'm brutal, but I would have given him no games this year.
I don't know if I would have even pulled him for training camp, as I probably would have let him focus on finishing what he started in Québec and carrying on the positive momentum from his play at the WJC.

I would have preferred him completing his season, having a mono-free summer of training, a development camp, a full training camp, and a pre-season.
At that point, evaluate where he is and decide if he's ready for a taste of the NHL.

 

[jfb392]

Also, don't know if anyone heard this, but Paul Hamilton says he's heard that "he's not the hardest worker" (here starting at 6:45).
Ick.

He does qualify it by saying he looks like he's working hard from what he's seen and that he's not behind closed doors, but "there's a faction in the organization that feels he needs to work harder".

 

[RattleYourSabre]

Also, don't know if anyone heard this, but Paul Hamilton says he's heard that "he's not the hardest worker" (here starting at 6:45).
Ick.

He does qualify it by saying he looks like he's working hard from what he's seen and that he's not behind closed doors, but "there's a faction in the organization that feels he needs to work harder".

While that could be true, it could equally be the organization leaking false info to try to justify their handling of the situation.

 

[angry pirate]

I don't really get this move. Sending Grig's back to junior likely means a prolonged run for Quebec. Realistically, for Grig's development, wouldn't letting Quebec get eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round, then reassigning him to the AHL for the remainder of the season have been the best option?

I'm assuming he would be eligible to be assigned to the AHL as soon as Quebec's season was over?

 

[vcv]

I don't really get this move. Sending Grig's back to junior likely means a prolonged run for Quebec. Realistically, for Grig's development, wouldn't letting Quebec get eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round, then reassigning him to the AHL for the remainder of the season have been the best option?

I'm assuming he would be eligible to be assigned to the AHL as soon as Quebec's season was over?

jfb will probably correct me here, but this is my understanding:
- AHL/CHL agreement: Any player in junior can play in the AHL once their junior season is over (whether on a pro contract (like Mikhail) or an Amateur Try-Out contract (like I believe Dan Cat was last year))
- NHL rule No player may be assigned to the AHL after April 3rd (NHL Trade Deadline) unless that player was recalled from the AHL to the NHL after the trade deadline.

So if Mikhail were up here still, Quebec would have had to been eliminated by April 3rd for him to be allowed to play in the AHL.

While AHL eliminated the Clear Day Roster for this year, the NHL won't allow players to be loaned/returned to the AHL after April 3rd unless they were recalled after April 3rd.

 

[SackTastic]

jfb will probably correct me here, but this is my understanding:
- AHL/CHL agreement: Any player in junior can play in the AHL once their junior season is over (whether on a pro contract (like Mikhail) or an Amateur Try-Out contract (like I believe Dan Cat was last year))
- NHL rule No player may be assigned to the AHL after April 3rd (NHL Trade Deadline) unless that player was recalled from the AHL to the NHL after the trade deadline.

So if Mikhail were up here still, Quebec would have had to been eliminated by April 3rd for him to be allowed to play in the AHL.

While AHL eliminated the Clear Day Roster for this year, the NHL won't allow players to be loaned/returned to the AHL after April 3rd unless they were recalled after April 3rd.

99% sure this is accurate information.