The media is not all over Kessel's goal production because...

[charliolemieux]

Stanley Cup winning team? Sure. Star laden? Hardly.

Vezina winning goalie
Norris winning Captain
Selke Winning Center

BEst Power Forward in the game.

THey may not be "Stars" but Holy crap batman!

 

[buntek]

Oh, so he's playing sheltered minutes as a 2nd line winger, not even on the 1st line facing the opposition's best? I see.

That doesn't change the fact that Toews and Thornton are better players than Seguin, got it? I don't understand the hate people heave at Kessel because of the trade. Just because Seguin was drafted at #2 doesn't mean he's an automatic franchise player or better than Kessel -- heck David Legwand was drafted #2 overall.

Kadri was in the AHL because Wilson and Burke thought it was best for his development, though I'm sure he would have given Seguin's 22 pt rookie campaign a run for the money had he been given the chance to play with the Leafs much earlier. Burke developed Bobby Ryan the same way.

Not all drafts are the same, you have to look at a player for what they are, how they were developed and how they play, and right now Kadri (though not much older and some called a bust) is playing better than Seguin, who is supposed to be some kind of an elite franchise centre...but not playing centre. The irony.

You know what is absurd? The continual hate against Kessel!

Everyone has an opinion pal. Do you love everyone on the Leafs?

 

[JetsHomer]

Either way it's good for the buds
Uh... except for the fact that Kessel is still a minus player.
Even on a team that scores more goals than it allows.

So when Kessel is on the ice, it is more likely the OTHER team will score, not the leafs.

How could that possibly be spun into a postitive?

I'm not a fan of the Kessal trade But to be fair to him powerplay doesn't count towards plus minus and he has 7 of his 16 points on the Pp.

 

[Superstar]

Everyone has an opinion pal. Do you love everyone on the Leafs?

Nice effort, pal. And the answer is "no", but I don't hate everything that's Burke or everything about the Kessel trade like it's armageddon.

 

[Philkessel]

And Seguin is leading his entire elite cup contending team in +/-.
While Kessel is somewhere near 20th on his team.

The Kessel apocalypse was just such a bad trade. Such a ridiculous and humiliating trade.
It will be Burkes legacy. A pathetic, disgusting trade.

thats not how it works but when would logic enter into anything

 

[Leafidelity]

Either way it's good for the buds?

Uh... except for the fact that Kessel is still a minus player.
Even on a team that scores more goals than it allows.

So when Kessel is on the ice, it is more likely the OTHER team will score, not the leafs.

How could that possibly be spun into a postitive?

Want to know who else is a minus player on a team that scores more goals than it allows? Malkin.

 

[Superstar]

Kessel is a 7 year veteran.
Seguin is a 3rd year 21 year old player.

Yet it's STILL arguable which is RIGHT NOW the better player.

Seguin is leading his star laden team in plus/minus and is unquestionably better defensively.
Kessel is showcasing his usual pathetic plus minus... even with a team that scores more goals than they allow.

Both have a lack luster 4 goals.
Kessel has more assists... but has first line minutes and first line powerplay time.

It's arguable who is better RIGHT NOW. Let alone considering that Seguin is still growing... while Kessel has more than likely reached his prime.

It's a PATHETIC trade just when comparing Seguin to Kessel.
When you add in Hamilton, it becomes flat out humiliating.,

Seguin has more to prove as a player if you think he's better than Kessel. And what do you say about Kessel's +23 as a less matured and developed 21 year old playing with a worse Bruins' team? So please, don't use plus/minus stats to justify that Seguin is a better player -- that entire Bruins' team under which Seguin plays is a much better defensive team than the Leafs under Wilson for the majority of Kessel's time here. Now under Carlyle, it's only beginning to turn around and we can't even say the Leafs are definitely making the playoffs. Our goal-tending hasn't stabilized for how many years now? And the same guys crapping all over our #1 D Phaneuf's defensive liabilities are some of the same ones crapping all over Kessel's plus/minus stats. You wanna praise Seguin's plus/minus? Thank Chara, Thomas, Rask, Bergeron, etc..

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

The Leafs are playing well and Kessel is still putting up points, so I'm not going to start complaining over minor issues.

 

[sommervr]

Well Kessel is RC problem now. Hopefully he can turn him around. I am sure they will get along famously.

 

[Calacatz]

Kessel will score 10 goals over the next 14 games and everyone will lick his ass again.. no worries..

I like his skill personally but he is also extremely soft on the puck and in his own end working the boards... Things that drive me nuts watching on TV I can only imagine what RC is thinking

 

[The Apologist]

Want to know who else is a minus player on a team that scores more goals than it allows? Malkin.

What a bum, we should see if maybe we could get Geno plus for Fraser, who is kicking ass in plus minus.

 

[The Apologist]

And Seguin is leading his entire elite cup contending team in +/-.
While Kessel is somewhere near 20th on his team.

The Kessel apocalypse was just such a bad trade. Such a ridiculous and humiliating trade.
It will be Burkes legacy. A pathetic, disgusting trade.

I agree. What kinda moronic GM trades a 21 year old budding star for draft picks?
A disgusting trade indeed.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

I agree. What kinda moronic GM trades a 21 year old budding star for draft picks?
A disgusting trade indeed.

Hamilton and Seguin together have 7 goals and 27 points compared to Kessel's 4 goals and 15 points.
AND THAT'S COMPARING A ROOKIE AND 3RD YEAR PLAYER TO A 7 ****ING YEAR VETERAN!!!!!!

Good ****ING CHRIST is Burke ever a ****ing idiot. It's such a disastrous ****ing trade.
I just can't ****ing take it anymore.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Seguin has more to prove as a player if you think he's better than Kessel. And what do you say about Kessel's +23 as a less matured and developed 21 year old playing with a worse Bruins' team? So please, don't use plus/minus stats to justify that Seguin is a better player -- that entire Bruins' team under which Seguin plays is a much better defensive team than the Leafs under Wilson for the majority of Kessel's time here. Now under Carlyle, it's only beginning to turn around and we can't even say the Leafs are definitely making the playoffs. Our goal-tending hasn't stabilized for how many years now? And the same guys crapping all over our #1 D Phaneuf's defensive liabilities are some of the same ones crapping all over Kessel's plus/minus stats. You wanna praise Seguin's plus/minus? Thank Chara, Thomas, Rask, Bergeron, etc..

Plus/minus works best when comparing to the players own team.

Kessel has one of the worst +/-'s of all the leafs forwards.
The other forwards on the leafs (who have MUCH higher +/-'s) have the EXACT same goalies behind them, the EXACT same defensemen behind them, under the EXACT same coaching system.
Yet some of them are as high as +13, while Kessel is in the negatives.

Similarly, the other forwards on Boston have the EXACT same goalie, defensemen, and system as Tyler Seguin, but Seguin still has the highest +/- on the entire star laden ****ing team.

Even when Kessel had that one lucky year with a high plus minus on the star laden Bruins team, it still was mediocre WHEN COMPARED TO THE REST OF HIS TEAM!!!!

Nobody is saying that plus/minus is a 'be all end all' statistic.
But combined with observation of Kessel's pathetic defensive effort, it's pretty safe to say that that he doesn't play a complete game... and it reflects often in the amount of goals that go in against the leafs when Kessel is on the ice.

 

[Grandrift145]

its not fair to kessel to judge him on the trade

ya it was a bad trade

but kessel wouldn't be a better player if it wasn't a bad trade

sguin and hamilton have nothing to do with kessel

 

[showtime8]

Plus/minus works best when comparing to the players own team.

Kessel has one of the worst +/-'s of all the leafs forwards.
The other forwards on the leafs (who have MUCH higher +/-'s) have the EXACT same goalies behind them, the EXACT same defensemen behind them, under the EXACT same coaching system.
Yet some of them are as high as +13, while Kessel is in the negatives.

Similarly, the other forwards on Boston have the EXACT same goalie, defensemen, and system as Tyler Seguin, but Seguin still has the highest +/- on the entire star laden ****ing team.

Even when Kessel had that one lucky year with a high plus minus on the star laden Bruins team, it still was mediocre WHEN COMPARED TO THE REST OF HIS TEAM!!!!

Nobody is saying that plus/minus is a 'be all end all' statistic.
But combined with observation of Kessel's pathetic defensive effort, it's pretty safe to say that that he doesn't play a complete game... and it reflects often in the amount of goals that go in against the leafs when Kessel is on the ice.

I'm going to have to add to your point here because I agree with what you're saying.

I also think you have to add into account that you don't get plus/minus when you are on the power play. That being said, you would expect his goal or point total to be a bit higher and could live with a lower plus/minus if he was getting more from that aspect. In comparison, Kadri has 4 power play goals and Kessel only has 2 in a lot more time.

I think that you can be all over Kessel's game in the media because the only reason that you brought him in here was to score. He's playing a better 200 foot game than he was, yes, but he's not going to fight, check or win you a crucial draw. His only job is to score and if he's not doing that, then he's not doing his role.

 

[NIKO G]

I don't think thus far even with the slump that Kessel has been in is really that bad, It's only bad if you're looking at it from the perspective of most people that inflate Kessel's skill and value, He's not an elite player like Crosby, Stamkos, Malkin, etc... Kessel is a compliment player who need's other people around the same skill or better then his to be a truly elite offensive force, I think once Lupul is back he will start producing more, Their will be more skill and offensive-ness to compliment his game. But it will also free up a lot more space for Kessel with someone also having to cover the other offensive threat instead of just mainly playing and watching out for Kessel.

And in my opinion.... I still to this day have no idea why Kessel is not playing left wing...
His shot is lethal from the left side and he doesn't need to cut to the middle from the boards as often (that's where he loses the puck a good chunk of the time). Also makes it much easier for him on one timer's from the left side or realising a quick shot from a pass.

If were healthy and stay that way i think we'd be alot higher up in the rankings right now cause most of the games we lost we were missing a crucial piece. and it showed in most of the games.

Phil Kessel - Tyler Bozak - Joffrey Lupul
Matt Frattin - Nazem Kadri - James Van-Riemsdyk
Clarke MacArthur - Joe Colborne (Mikhail Grabovski) - Nikolai Kulemin
Frazer McLaren - Jay McClement - Leo Komarov

Dion Phaneuf - Korbinian Holzer
Mike Kostka - Jake Gardiner (John-Michael Liles)
Mark Fraser - Cody Franson

James Reimer
Ben Scrivens

Probly the best line-up you can run right now, I'd still like to see some trades tho peferably:

Mike Komisarek: (Trade / Compliance Buyout)
Carl Gunnarsson: (Trade -- If not keep him as a Depth D-man)
Mike Brown: (Trade / Waive -- Also free's up a spot for a younger player to come in as a depth player and show what they can do or offer)
Mikhail Grabovski: (Trade -- I'd eventually want Colborne in Grabovski's 3rd Line Center role)

 

[613Leafer]

Hamilton and Seguin together have 7 goals and 27 points compared to Kessel's 4 goals and 15 points.
AND THAT'S COMPARING A ROOKIE AND 3RD YEAR PLAYER TO A 7 ****ING YEAR VETERAN!!!!!!

Good ****ING CHRIST is Burke ever a ****ing idiot. It's such a disastrous ****ing trade.
I just can't ****ing take it anymore.

Well the trade is what it is, hard to still get upset about the trade itself.

I only personally get annoyed when I see some Leafs fans still defending the trade, still trying to find the smallest scraps of information they can use to defend the trade. I honestly cant tell if theyre just being trolls, because I cannot believe that any semi-rational person could look at that trade and say that Toronto won the trade or that it was a good move.

Kessel is what he is, a highly skilled player, one of the best shots in the game. But has possibly the most incomplete game out of any "star" player in the entire league.

 

[DaveT83*]

Seguin has more to prove as a player if you think he's better than Kessel. And what do you say about Kessel's +23 as a less matured and developed 21 year old playing with a worse Bruins' team? So please, don't use plus/minus stats to justify that Seguin is a better player -- that entire Bruins' team under which Seguin plays is a much better defensive team than the Leafs under Wilson for the majority of Kessel's time here. Now under Carlyle, it's only beginning to turn around and we can't even say the Leafs are definitely making the playoffs. Our goal-tending hasn't stabilized for how many years now? And the same guys crapping all over our #1 D Phaneuf's defensive liabilities are some of the same ones crapping all over Kessel's plus/minus stats. You wanna praise Seguin's plus/minus? Thank Chara, Thomas, Rask, Bergeron, etc..

So Kessel is no good because the team is no good?

Cool story

 

[DaveT83*]

I'm going to have to add to your point here because I agree with what you're saying.

I also think you have to add into account that you don't get plus/minus when you are on the power play. That being said, you would expect his goal or point total to be a bit higher and could live with a lower plus/minus if he was getting more from that aspect. In comparison, Kadri has 4 power play goals and Kessel only has 2 in a lot more time.

I think that you can be all over Kessel's game in the media because the only reason that you brought him in here was to score. He's playing a better 200 foot game than he was, yes, but he's not going to fight, check or win you a crucial draw. His only job is to score and if he's not doing that, then he's not doing his role.

But then every player in the NHL would get their PP scores tabulated as well ... so I doubt his +/- is impacted that greatly overall.

 

[Brewsky]

Real reason, Nazem the Dream.

 

[showtime8]

But then every player in the NHL would get their PP scores tabulated as well ... so I doubt his +/- is impacted that greatly overall.

But how many players actually play on the powerplay?

The important part that I was trying to point out was that he should have more points from the powerplay and it would be more acceptable if he had more points and a lesser plus/minus.

 

[ACC1224]

Well the trade is what it is, hard to still get upset about the trade itself.

I only personally get annoyed when I see some Leafs fans still defending the trade, still trying to find the smallest scraps of information they can use to defend the trade. I honestly cant tell if theyre just being trolls, because I cannot believe that any semi-rational person could look at that trade and say that Toronto won the trade or that it was a good move.

Kessel is what he is, a highly skilled player, one of the best shots in the game. But has possibly the most incomplete game out of any "star" player in the entire league.

Leaf fans rarely if ever bring up the Trade. Those who can't move on from Burke always do.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Will there ever come a day when we no longer have to hear about the Kessel trade? What is it going to take for people to get over this?

 

[achtungbaby]

I agree. What kinda moronic GM trades a 21 year old budding star for draft picks?
A disgusting trade indeed.

Considering that Boston won a cup without Kessel and the Leafs went nowhere with him, I think Bostons GM read the tea leaves regarding his teams position a lot better than ours did.