The media is not all over Kessel's goal production because...

[Mess]

Yeah, I mean, his production has dropped by like 20% in the first 20 or so games.

Kessel scored only 5 goals in his last 20 games of 2011-12 season & has 4 goals in 22 games this year.

So his goal production has dropped to even less than his past season ending performance.

In 40 games under Carlyle he has managed just 8 goals total to date. That's a 16 goal pace over a full season.. Hopefully the first 40 games are not like the next 40 ahead.

 

[hullsy47]

Kessel scored only 5 goals in his last 20 games of 2011-12 season & has 4 goals in 22 games this year.

So his goal production has dropped to even less than his past season ending performance.

In 40 games under Carlyle he has managed just 8 goals total to date. That's a 16 goal pace over a full season.. Hopefully the first 40 games are not like the next 40 ahead.

tired of hearing about kessel's chemistry with lupul too .....he just womt go to the net at all ..everyone else does ......i expect 4 goals at least this week for phil the thrill

 

[bearcountry17]

Yeah, I mean, his production has dropped by like 20% in the first 20 or so games.

Obviously his career is over, while Seguin will obviously be in the Hall of Fame by 25 years old.

It is starting to appear that last year was probably kessels peak year. He has a devastating shot but he's too afraid to get into the areas where the goals come easy. Also way too predictable, wouldn't surprise me if he went down the Ovi route, although Ovi can contribute in ways other that offence.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Do both of Hamilton and Seguin play injured too? Why Boston media is not on their case for such a lackluster production? For playing such a sheltered minutes Seguin cannot even outproduce rookie in Kardi? Pfrrrrrr....

Link?

 

[mix1home]

I'm asking in what shape or form is PATRICE BERGERON (and his wingers) receiving sheltered minutes?

If Patrice Bergeron and Seguin are being sheltered, then you must think Kadri's minutes are being sheltered like 50 times more.

And if you have watched Boston games you should know that Bergeron has nothing to do with Seguin. Seguin is used in protected minutes, against weaker lines, mostly in offensive/neutral zone. If you find Seguin on the ice in defensive zone it's probably because he stuck on ice because of icing and in part due to Boston being not as "hard-matching" team as Leafs.
Seguin plays secondary role with defensively good lane-mates, when Kadri actually IS THE COG on his line. Yet, Kardi outperforms or stays pat with Seguin on pretty much any stat you will find.
So far Seguin proved as much as Stalberg and Tlusty, who are both recent talk boys. Not even close to what Kessel accomplished already. Sorry if you cannot see that or understand what you see.

 

[Bomber0104]

And if you have watched Boston games you should know that Bergeron has nothing to do with Seguin. Seguin is used in protected minutes, against weaker lines, mostly in offensive/neutral zone. If you find Seguin on the ice in defensive zone it's probably because he stuck on ice because of icing and in part due to Boston being not as "hard-matching" team as Leafs.
Seguin plays secondary role with defensively good lane-mates, when Kadri actually IS THE COG on his line. Yet, Kardi outperforms or stays pat with Seguin on pretty much any stat you will find.
So far Seguin proved as much as Stalberg and Tlusty, who are both recent talk boys. Not even close to what Kessel accomplished already. Sorry if you cannot see that or understand what you see.

Bergeron plays with Seguin...

Anyone who has watched the Bruins over the past two years would know this.

And anyone who has watched this line play, knows that they do not avoid difficult opponents, but rather are used against them.

And anyone who know's what kind of coaching style Claude Julien employs, it's one that is ridiculously detailed defensively and just as meticulously managed in terms of line matchups..

Anything else to contribute...or rather anything else that needs clarifying?

 

[DaveT83*]

Kessel scored only 5 goals in his last 20 games of 2011-12 season & has 4 goals in 22 games this year.

So his goal production has dropped to even less than his past season ending performance.

In 40 games under Carlyle he has managed just 8 goals total to date. That's a 16 goal pace over a full season.. Hopefully the first 40 games are not like the next 40 ahead.

4 even strength goals for this hockey team in 40+ games since RC took over.

 

[pspot]

your best player should make players around them better, not vise versa

I like Kessel but don't think he's a franchise player and hope the Leafs don't end up paying him like one. Either stays for a reasonable contract (5.5 to 6 per) or moved
if he gets anything like 7+ that will hurt

 

[mix1home]

Link?

It's more of a watching Seguin play than stats. He might be high in couple of stats, but otherwise middle of the puck / below average, which to me implies that he is more of a product of playing on stacked team than him being go-to-guy.

But have a look here: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

In my mind his sheltered status is pretty obvious from these. 60% offensive zone starts? That is super-sheltered.

 

[Gobias Industries]

And if you have watched Boston games you should know that Bergeron has nothing to do with Seguin. Seguin is used in protected minutes, against weaker lines, mostly in offensive/neutral zone. If you find Seguin on the ice in defensive zone it's probably because he stuck on ice because of icing and in part due to Boston being not as "hard-matching" team as Leafs.
Seguin plays secondary role with defensively good lane-mates, when Kadri actually IS THE COG on his line. Yet, Kardi outperforms or stays pat with Seguin on pretty much any stat you will find.
So far Seguin proved as much as Stalberg and Tlusty, who are both recent talk boys. Not even close to what Kessel accomplished already. Sorry if you cannot see that or understand what you see.

He lead the Bruins in scoring last year, so he's probably proved a little more than that.

I also disagree with pretty much everything in your post as well, how many Bruins games have you watched this year? Given that Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin is a set line I'm not sure why you think Seguin isn't on defensive zone sets given he actually averages slightly more ES TOI than Bergeron. Seems to be a PK/PP thing to me.

 

[Bomber0104]

It's more of a watching Seguin play than stats. He might be high in couple of stats, but otherwise middle of the puck / below average, which to me implies that he is more of a product of playing on stacked team than him being go-to-guy.

But have a look here: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

In my mind his sheltered status is pretty obvious from these. 60% offensive zone starts? That is super-sheltered.

No it is not. Because he doesn't play PK...and plays PP. Whereas his centerman Bergeron does play PK which necessitates that he starts in the defensive zone hence the reason his starts are lower.

For someone who professes to watch the Bruins and Seguin play (I don't believe it for a second), it's rather startling you don't know who Seguin's centerman is and what kind of players they play against. Because if you did you wouldnt need to misinterpret raw numbers to come to a false conclusion.

 

[mix1home]

No it is not. Because he doesn't play PK...and plays PP. Whereas his centerman Bergeron does play PK which necessitates that he starts in the defensive zone hence the reason his starts are lower.

For someone who professes to watch the Bruins and Seguin play (I don't believe it for a second), it's rather startling you don't know who Seguin's centerman is and what kind of players they play against. Because if you did you wouldnt need to misinterpret raw numbers to come to a false conclusion.

You might sound reasonable if stat would be in 50% range, not in 60%. Compare it to Kessel's and Kadri's. This is obvious you believe in what you WANT TO BE TRUE, when hard reality is that Seguin is not the player you think he is.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

You do realize you are making an the argument that Stats aren't important - because a team failed to win Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals right?

I didn't say stats aren't important, I said Corsi isn't important as people are stating it or putting value into it. Stats only does so much but in the sport of hockey it's not as great as it can be used in baseball. Even then, Moneyball story, shows he still hasn't been able to get that world championship yet, just close to it.

 

[Gobias Industries]

You might sound reasonable if stat would be in 50% range, not in 60%. Compare it to Kessel's and Kadri's. This is obvious you believe in what you WANT TO BE TRUE, when hard reality is that Seguin is not the player you think he is.

Aren't there a lot of factors involved in that stat?

I've watched every Bruins game this year and never considered Seguin to be receiving sheltered minutes, so I find it odd.

 

[hotpaws]

Aren't there a lot of factors involved in that stat?

I've watched every Bruins game this year and never considered Seguin to be receiving sheltered minutes, so I find it odd.

He's not , Mix is just grasping for straws . The guy didn't even know who Segs linemate was .

 

[Bomber0104]

You might sound reasonable if stat would be in 50% range, not in 60%. Compare it to Kessel's and Kadri's. This is obvious you believe in what you WANT TO BE TRUE, when hard reality is that Seguin is not the player you think he is.

I've said nothing about Seguin as a player. You're the one who brought it up because you seem to think Kadri scoring points has anything to do with the Kessel trade.

The only thing I said about Seguin was that he has scored as much as Kessel and is a more complete player. Hamilton has scored a bit less and is obviously developing into a very complete defenceman.

I believe the score is 26 points for the Bruins (plus better defensive play) versus 16 points for the Leafs (with the softest player in the league).

 

[mix1home]

I'm not sure why you think Seguin isn't on defensive zone sets given he actually averages slightly more ES TOI than Bergeron. Seems to be a PK/PP thing to me.

Still, 60% it way too high. Also his QoC stats are average or below average, which is suspect to me. Still, it all secondary in this thread. It's just funny how fans like Bomber0104 come to any thread that mention Kessel name and try to make a point about Kessel trade even though who won or lost that trade and to what degree is debatable at best atm.

 

[Bomber0104]

Aren't there a lot of factors involved in that stat?

I've watched every Bruins game this year and never considered Seguin to be receiving sheltered minutes, so I find it odd.

Patrice Bergeron receiving protected minutes..

I've officially heard it all.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Still, 60% it way too high. Also his QoC stats are average or below average, which is suspect to me. Still, it all secondary in this thread. It's just funny how fans like Bomber0104 come to any thread that mention Kessel name and try to make a point about Kessel trade even though who won or lost that trade and to what degree is debatable at best atm.

Whatever man, say what you'd like, but I wouldn't call him sheltered.

This thread OP mentioned Seguin specifically, so I'll let Bomber off for this one.

 

[Bomber0104]

Still, 60% it way too high. Also his QoC stats are average or below average, which is suspect to me. Still, it all secondary in this thread. It's just funny how fans like Bomber0104 come to any thread that mention Kessel name and try to make a point about Kessel trade even though who won or lost that trade and to what degree is debatable at best atm.

A) Corsi is meaningless
B) Seguin plays with Bergeron
C) Boston won the trade (they won a Cup, and the players they got despite losing Kessel are currently outscoring him)...we're just going to have to wait and see how BADLY we lost it.

 

[mix1home]

I believe the score is 26 points for the Bruins (plus better defensive play) versus 16 points for the Leafs (with the softest player in the league).

And this could be easily the opposite. All you have atm is 19-22 games sample. Right?

 

[Gobias Industries]

And this could be easily the opposite. All you have atm is 19-22 games sample. Right?

True, although I'd normally take two roster players over one.

But as Mess likes to throw around, Kessel's last 40 have been pretty rough.

 

[Bomber0104]

And this could be easily the opposite. All you have atm is 19-22 games sample. Right?

But it isn't the opposite (reality)...and in my opinion will never be close going forward as Boston's young players progress and grow.

Because Kessel can only score a PPG when he plays Ron Wilson pond hockey and is one of the softest if not the softest player in the league.

Seguin scores 60-70 points playing a Claude Julien defensive system and is in his third year. Hamilton is already turning heads as a rookie in the NHL and he too is obviously going to further develop into a complete player.

IMO, if all three players play 82 games for the rest of their career, Kessel will never outscore the two of them (Seg and Hamilton).

 

[leafspring*]

A) Corsi is meaningless
B) Seguin plays with Bergeron
C) Boston won the trade (they won a Cup, and the players they got despite losing Kessel are currently outscoring him)...we're just going to have to wait and see how BADLY we lost it.

I bet you weren't so loud last year when Kessel was a point a game.

 

[Pilky01]

Yeah, right, Cup winning GM will be haunted forever by perception of one trade by some fans. lol

PS. Sorry, cannot resist.

That is correct.

A disastrous trade as GM of the Maple Leafs is much more significant than any accomplishment, even a Stanley Cup, reached as a Mighty Duck of Anaheim.