HF Habs: The Martin Saint-Louis thread: Winning Streak Edition

[JianYang]

Montreal fans: “I want a rebuild!”

Also Montreal fans: “Why aren’t we winning

Build the base of players, worry about systems later.... not the other way around.

I suspect alot of the same characters complaining about the system would also be mad if they were Tortorella'd into defence and being a middling team in the league

 

[Heffyhoof]

I've whined about it twice already but his thread is more relevant. In the span of about 10-15 seconds, I watched the Lightning players skate in patterns that have our stupid man-on-man defence players running into each other not once, but twice.

Surprise surprise, but it's not just us HFers that see how stupid Marty's defensive zone plan is, other teams actually game plan with it in mind. Normally teams use pick plays to interrupt defensive coverage by getting in the way of players, but because Marty is the greatest coach ever, they can now use our own players as a pick play and take out two players from the play.

Edit: Another form of his useless coaching was that I witnessed a 1 minute+ defensive zone play wherein our players ended up in a vague pentagon form multiple times and at least 3 of those times Guhle was the tip of the pentagon. One of our defencemen was chasing his man 3+times in a single shift at the blue line as the most forward player.

 

[Beer and Chips]

They aren't going to replace MSL but at least they should replace the assistants this summer, good god.

 

[Vachon23]

They aren't going to replace MSL but at least they should replace the assistants this summer, good god.

I would at least change Letowski by a career coach. Burrows and Robidas can stay

 

[teamfirst]

They aren't going to replace MSL but at least they should replace the assistants this summer, good god.

Not so sure about that, next season is the last one of his 3 years deal, we better see some improvement in our own zone and the PK and the consistancy or else i dont see them giving him another 3 or 5 year deal.

And being the head coach also mean you oversee the work of the assistant coach so their wrong doing is also MSL wrong doing, at the end of the day he is the man in charge that's the reason he's paid 10 times more then them

 

[The Real Timo]

They aren't going to replace MSL but at least they should replace the assistants this summer, good god.

They SHOULD replace St. Louis. I think going into next season structure needs to be introduced back into this team.

 

[Sorinth]

I would at least change Letowski by a career coach. Burrows and Robidas can stay

As fans I don't think we can have any idea about which assistants are doing a good job and which aren't. Even when they are in charge of a specific aspect like PP or the PK they don't have complete freedom to do things how they want.

Too much of the info we need to properly evaluate them happens behind closed doors.

 

[tazsub3]

Not so sure about that, next season is the last one of his 3 years deal, we better see some improvement in our own zone and the PK and the consistancy or else i dont see them giving him another 3 or 5 year deal.

And being the head coach also mean you oversee the work of the assistant coach so their wrong doing is also MSL wrong doing, at the end of the day he is the man in charge that's the reason he's paid 10 times more then them

I don’t understand how you can see improvement , have you looked at the roster man ? There is enough talent on the ice to be last in the league yet we competing more often then not with the best teams .
Seriously don’t know what people want to see . No coach in the will world will make Anderson , Gallagher etc etc be and look better then they are .
The top players remaining all looked good and improved , even Suzuki !

 

[salbutera]

This is quite impressive for a team that’s young & in development mode

 

[Vachon23]

As fans I don't think we can have any idea about which assistants are doing a good job and which aren't. Even when they are in charge of a specific aspect like PP or the PK they don't have complete freedom to do things how they want.

Too much of the info we need to properly evaluate them happens behind closed doors.

I do agree with that

But Letowski is the coach that is right next to MSL and that is not in charge of a position in particular so that’s why I would like a career coach to be right next to MSL

 

[teamfirst]

I don’t understand how you can see improvement , have you looked at the roster man ? There is enough talent on the ice to be last in the league yet we competing more often then not with the best teams .
Seriously don’t know what people want to see . No coach in the will world will make Anderson , Gallagher etc etc be and look better then they are .
The top players remaining all looked good and improved , even Suzuki !

Yes...... i watch every game so i know the roaster is pretty bad , still there is things i dont like about the way we play that is on the coaching staff.

Would like to see more structure in the D zone for start, and also being able to not being crush every second period beceause changing being far away from the bench is hard, i mean it's hard for both team, also not having a so passive PK, all that is on the coaches.

I'll give him a pass for his first 2 seasons but at some point we need to see some improvment in those depertatment wont you agree, that's why i think it's not so sure they prolonge him after next season unless we see improvement, but hey.....i could be wrong, i have been before.

It's just an opinion man

 

[Jigger77]

It all starts with shift length. Shifts are too long. This is also the reason why the issues start in the 2nd period. You can't play proper D when you're gassed. Last night the first line had at least two shifts in the 2nd period where they had opportunities to get off the ice after about 30-40 seconds but they stayed on, ended up trapped in their own zone. I looked but I can't find stats to back this up, but I would be willing to bet they're in the top part of the league for average shift length. There are other issues, like the constant back-passes to the D in their own zone and collapsing in their own zone and getting trapped. Sometimes just a chip off the glass is better than making a risky play to the D. But they seem to have put a bit of a handle on that lately and I do concede that the game has changed in terms of the importance of puck possession. Anyway, my two cents is I think a lot of the issues get resolved with shorter shifts. Whether they play zone or M2M D. Nothing earth shattering or new. Just basic hockey 101.

 

[Sorinth]

It all starts with shift length. Shifts are too long. This is also the reason why the issues start in the 2nd period. You can't play proper D when you're gassed. Last night the first line had at least two shifts in the 2nd period where they had opportunities to get off the ice after about 30-40 seconds but they stayed on, ended up trapped in their own zone. I looked but I can't find stats to back this up, but I would be willing to bet they're in the top part of the league for average shift length. There are other issues, like the constant back-passes to the D in their own zone and collapsing in their own zone and getting trapped. Sometimes just a chip off the glass is better than making a risky play to the D. But they seem to have put a bit of a handle on that lately and I do concede that the game has changed in terms of the importance of puck possession. Anyway, my two cents is I think a lot of the issues get resolved with shorter shifts. Whether they play zone or M2M D. Nothing earth shattering or new. Just basic hockey 101.

They are up there in terms of shift length but it also kind of looks normal for top players.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Jigger77]

They are up there in terms of shift length but it also kind of looks normal for top players.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Thanks. I wish there was a filter that lets you compare by teams more easily. It does support what I'm seeing though. Matheson is the guy I would have singled out and he's 7th in the league in average shift length. And the entire first line other than Slaf are on the first page. I think they would solve a lot of the D issues and 2nd period problems if they focused on quicker shifts. They look fine in 1st periods usually and then the wheels start falling off in the 2nd. Get off before you're tired, basically as soon as you have a chance. Especially in the 2nd when your D zone is further from the bench. Pretty simple, easy adjustment to make that I think would be a good place to start to fix some of the issues.

 

[Sorinth]

Thanks. I wish there was a filter that lets you compare by teams more easily. It does support what I'm seeing though. Matheson is the guy I would have singled out and he's 7th in the league in average shift length. And the entire first line other than Slaf are on the first page. I think they would solve a lot of the D issues and 2nd period problems if they focused on quicker shifts. They look fine in 1st periods usually and then the wheels start falling off in the 2nd. Get off before you're tired, basically as soon as you have a chance. Especially in the 2nd when your D zone is further from the bench. Pretty simple, easy adjustment to make that I think would be a good place to start to fix some of the issues.

One thing to note is I don't believe the numbers aren't strictly 5on5, so it will include the PP where our top unit plays almost the whole 2min. Also at 55s Suzuki and Caufield are on the 1st page but at 50s they'd be on the 4th or 5th page, so how much does 5s really matter?

I'll be curious to see if the numbers change next season with Dach around. With a deeper lineup I'd expect that the coaches would push for shorter shifts so that they can roll the lines more evenly.

 

[Rapala]

Thanks. I wish there was a filter that lets you compare by teams more easily. It does support what I'm seeing though. Matheson is the guy I would have singled out and he's 7th in the league in average shift length. And the entire first line other than Slaf are on the first page. I think they would solve a lot of the D issues and 2nd period problems if they focused on quicker shifts. They look fine in 1st periods usually and then the wheels start falling off in the 2nd. Get off before you're tired, basically as soon as you have a chance. Especially in the 2nd when your D zone is further from the bench. Pretty simple, easy adjustment to make that I think would be a good place to start to fix some of the issues.

The shift lengths are part and parcel of having a bad team.
Always getting zoned and much of it because a lot of the players can't get the puck deep enough to make the clean change.

You are right though sometimes it's just plain dumb ice management.
The other night Evans line was stuck on the ice for 30-40 seconds before icing the puck.
They won the draw and gained the O zone getting the puck deep and I'm thinking great we can change up.
Nope not one forward came off the ice and only 1 Dman made it.
Sure enough the prolonged shift ended up in our net.

 

[Jigger77]

The shift lengths are part and parcel of having a bad team.
Always getting zoned and much of it because a lot of the players can't get the puck deep enough to make the clean change.

You are right though sometimes it's just plain dumb ice management.
The other night Evans line was stuck on the ice for 30-40 seconds before icing the puck.
They won the draw and gained the O zone getting the puck deep and I'm thinking great we can change up.
Nope not one forward came off the ice and only 1 Dman made it.
Sure enough the prolonged shift ended up in our net.

Yep. I was yelling "get off the ice" on that play .

And there are a lot of examples. Pretty much every game they have a chance at a line change and instead end up gassed/pinned in their own zone. Doesn't always result in a goal against but it can change momentum because you're giving the other team a bunch of touches, and burns all your energy defending instead of creating offensive pressure. And usually that's when they start getting into penalty trouble.

Sure sometimes there's a fine line between getting off the ice vs not getting off but I'm talking about clear cut chances for a line change after 30-40 second shifts. I would address that before anything else, personally.

 

[Rapala]

One thing to note is I don't believe the numbers aren't strictly 5on5, so it will include the PP where our top unit plays almost the whole 2min. Also at 55s Suzuki and Caufield are on the 1st page but at 50s they'd be on the 4th or 5th page, so how much does 5s really matter?

I'll be curious to see if the numbers change next season with Dach around. With a deeper lineup I'd expect that the coaches would push for shorter shifts so that they can roll the lines more evenly.

I feel Suzuki is doing a much better job cutting his shifts 5v5.
Often you will find both Slaf and Caufield still out there after he has changed.
He's become a lot smarter deciding when to stay depending on zone and puck possession.
You are right the shift times will only get noticeably better once we get deeper and can roll lines without getting pinched and taking penalties.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Tyson]

Man I hope things are going to be ok

 

[Adam Michaels]

Man I hope things are going to be ok

I hope all will be fine. But if he will be gone indefinitely, it must be something serious.

 

[Hacketts]

I hope all will be fine. But if he will be gone indefinitely, it must be something serious.

I don't like the indefinitely part. Hope it's all good.

 

[Le Tricolore]

No bueno. Hopefully everything ends up being okay with whatever he has to take the time off for.

 

[HomaridII]

Wish him all the best. Hope it’s nothing serious

 

[StCaufield]

Really hope him and the people in his life are going to be okay in the long run