The Management Thread | Live, Play, Repeat Edition

[racerjoe]

Sure, this is totally fair. Not much I wanna say against it.

What I'm referring to is the continuous notion that after 7 years in the chair, some people still think that Benning's incompetence has a direct causal correlation with Gillis' shortcomings.

his premises is just flat out wrong and laughable though. In order for it to be true Horvat, Markstrom, Tanev, and Edler could not have been prominent parts of the team last year.

it also would mean parts like Kesler, Bieksa Garrison, and Hamhuis had no value, which the absolutely did.

This team was in a great position to flip pieces and rebuild retool. Would it have been easy? No, I don’t think anyone thinks it is. But when it is so terribly mismanaged you get what we have now.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Normal asset management:
We can't sign our own UFAs so we should trade them for assets.

We should acquire more draft picks because we have a decent Drafting department.

Nuck asset management:
Why flip players for assets when we can let them leave for nothing as UFAs.

or why not acquire pending UFAs from other teams for important assets then we can let them leave for nothing as UFAs.

or we should trade away more prospects and draft picks for depreciating UFAs and be reliant upon our Pro Scouting department which is reliably atrocious.

Current Nucks management is unhinged from reality.

 

[I am toxic]

Normal asset management:
We can't sign our own UFAs so we should trade them for assets.

We should acquire more draft picks because we have a decent Drafting department.

Nuck asset management:
Why flip players for assets when we can let them leave for nothing as UFAs.

or why not acquire pending UFAs from other teams for important assets then we can let them leave for nothing as UFAs.

or we should trade away more prospects and draft picks for depreciating UFAs and be reliant upon our Pro Scouting department which is reliably atrocious.

Current Nucks management is unhinged from reality.

They are damaging any future period of contention for our young core. They have already destroyed any period of contention while Petey and Hughes are on ELC's and Demko on good deal as well.

To save their effin' jobs.

This management group has no integrity. It should not be a surprise how they treated Tanev, Marky and Stech as garbage, they don't have time because they are incompetent and scrambling to save their own sorry ass jobs.

Did I say no integrity? I meant negative integrity.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

For those seeking a glimmer that this year, in the near future the Canucks can acquire assets to turn their fortunes around, check out this from capfriendly
(Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps):

ROSTER SIZE	23	13	5	2	1	0	0
STANDARD PLAYER CONTRACTS	46	19	9	2	1	0	0
AVERAGE AGE	27.3	28.7	28.4	33	33	-	-
UPPER LIMIT	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000
PROJECTED CAP HIT	$85,510,542	$58,638,546	$27,091,667	$11,950,000	$5,950,000	$0	$0
PROJECTED CAP SPACE	$0	$22,861,454	$54,408,333	$69,550,000	$75,550,000	$81,500,000	$81,500,000
CURRENT CAP SPACE	$0	-	-	-	-	-	-
DEADLINE CAP SPACE	$0	-	-	-	-	-	-
ESTIMATED SALARY EXPENDITURE	$70,015,833	$56,550,000	$22,625,000	$10,950,000	$4,850,000	$0	$0
CARRYOVER BONUS OVERAGES	$1,700,000	-	-	-	-	-	-
POTENTIAL PERFORMANCE BONUSES	$4,750,000	$200,000	$300,000	$0	$0	$0	$0
RETAINED SALARY REMAINING	3	3	3	3	3	3	3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

It is interesting to note the Nucks have ZERO projected salary space at the deadline. I have actually never seen this before for any previous Nucks team. They lost all that cap space when they decide to sign their current crop of UFAs: Holtby, Hamonic and Hawryluk.

There is no calvary arriving this year, just the hope of an early Spring.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

It is interesting to note the Nucks have ZERO projected salary space at the deadline. I have actually never seen this before for any previous Nucks team. They lost all that cap space when they decide to sign their current crop of UFAs: Holtby, Hamonic and Hawryluk.

tbh that’s probably for the best. protects our picks and prospects from being lit on fire again

 

[sandwichbird2023]

do you dispute that aquaman sets direction for the team and keeps benning on a short keash? serious question. i'd like to hear your honest take since you seem to think it is a gotcha for me to have said it

ther's other shit to be said for that post but let's take it one at a time.

is my statement fair comment or not? if it is fair comment, what is your beef with me saying it?

let's see if you can deal with even one argumemt honestly before i take on the rest of your comments.

Nope, I don't dispute that at all, just find it interesting that this wasn't brought up by you when the team is doing well. But when it's struggling, then somehow it's all the owners fault.
I don't have any beef with you, I don't even know you. It just fascinate me that you seem to find ways to excuse everything Benning does. Even though you stated he hasn't done a good job and it's time to move on from him.

I also don't need to resort to words like "shit" to make a point, but it appears you do, so I rather not engage you any further.

 

[I am toxic]

snip

It is interesting to note the Nucks have ZERO projected salary space at the deadline. I have actually never seen this before for any previous Nucks team. They lost all that cap space when they decide to sign their current crop of UFAs: Holtby, Hamonic and Hawryluk.

There is no calvary arriving this year, just the hope of an early Spring.

Podz.

He's like, Theoden and 10,000 Rohirrim.

 

[DS7]

Normal asset management:
We can't sign our own UFAs so we should trade them for assets.

We should acquire more draft picks because we have a decent Drafting department.

Nuck asset management:
Why flip players for assets when we can let them leave for nothing as UFAs.

or why not acquire pending UFAs from other teams for important assets then we can let them leave for nothing as UFAs.

or we should trade away more prospects and draft picks for depreciating UFAs and be reliant upon our Pro Scouting department which is reliably atrocious.

Current Nucks management is unhinged from reality.

Or why retain $2.5 mil in cap to spend on a top 6 winger when we can qualify Jake so we can healthy scratch him.

Its like Benning hasnt even asked Green for input in roster decisions.

 

[Fatass]

Or why retain $2.5 mil in cap to spend on a top 6 winger when we can qualify Jake so we can healthy scratch him.

Its like Benning hasnt even asked Green for input in roster decisions.

Sadly (imo) roster decisions are coming from above, and that means Aquilini. Not signing Jake, and buying out Sutter keeps Tofu here. Didn’t media report Aquilini would allow any buyouts?

 

[xtra]

I really hate we don’t get our tank thread, cause a few of the bros grumbled we lost a thread that made the majority of us happy.

I hope we get it back soon

 

[xtra]

Sadly (imo) roster decisions are coming from above, and that means Aquilini. Not signing Jake, and buying out Sutter keeps Tofu here. Didn’t media report Aquilini would allow any buyouts?

At some point Aqua couldn’t keep giving benning money to bail benning out of his mistakes.

the no money for buyouts is def a side effect of the 12 million buy we have on ferland. As much as we hate to see it Ferland is a 3 mil per year buy out

 

[Fatass]

I really hate we don’t get our tank thread, cause a few of the bros grumbled we lost a thread that made the majority of us happy.

I hope we get it back soon

After we return from three beatdowns by the Leafs I’m all in for “lose for Hughes”. Are there other draft eligible guys who’s names make for good rhymes? Is there a “Hank”?

 

[infinitemile]

Sadly (imo) roster decisions are coming from above, and that means Aquilini. Not signing Jake, and buying out Sutter keeps Tofu here. Didn’t media report Aquilini would allow any buyouts?

I see this said a lot and I just dont really get it. When people say that Aqua is meddling, do they really think that he makes roster decisions? That just simply isnt the case. There is no way that Aqua is involved in any professional scouting. He's not the guy assembling the team. Aqua probably makes the final yes/no call on the big contracts and other money coming in through trades, especially through the pandemic.

This idea that Frankie is involved in, for instance, pressuring JB into re-signing Virtanen or letting Toffoli walk just isnt true. It's a straightup fabrication designed to reduce Benning's culpability ; this is a staple of Benning bro's defense over the past 7 years.

The real problem with Aqua is that he has historically been deadset on being extremely patient for some reason. Apparently the Aquilinis didn't like the reputation they had gained as low-patience high-overturn owners. Coincidentally, just as Benning and Weisbrod sidle up to Frankie with exactly what he wants to hear: "we can turn this around quickly". If any of you follow the NFL, this situation is honestly pretty similar to Jack Easterby and the Texans. Benning and Weisbrod are the Rasputin to Aquilini's Tsar Nicholas II

 

[Fatass]

I see this said a lot and I just dont really get it. When people say that Aqua is meddling, do they really think that he makes roster decisions? That just simply isnt the case. There is no way that Aqua is involved in any professional scouting. He's not the guy assembling the team. Aqua probably makes the final yes/no call on the big contracts and other money coming in through trades, especially through the pandemic.

This idea that Frankie is involved in, for instance, pressuring JB into re-signing Virtanen or letting Toffoli walk just isnt true. It's a straightup fabrication designed to reduce Benning's culpability ; this is a staple of Benning bro's defense over the past 7 years.

The real problem with Aqua is that he has historically been deadset on being extremely patient for some reason. Apparently the Aquilinis didn't like the reputation they had gained as low-patience high-overturn owners. Coincidentally, just as Benning and Weisbrod sidle up to Frankie with exactly what he wants to hear: "we can turn this around quickly". If any of you follow the NFL, this situation is honestly pretty similar to Jack Easterby and the Texans. Benning and Weisbrod are the Rasputin to Aquilini's Tsar Nicholas II

You make a good argument, but why do we read reports, and hear hockey people talking about Aquilini’s meddling resulting in certain management people refusing to work for him, especially the experienced and successful ones?

 

[DS7]

I really hate we don’t get our tank thread, cause a few of the bros grumbled we lost a thread that made the majority of us happy.

I hope we get it back soon

We don't even know if there will be a draft this year. What a year to tank.

 

[mathonwy]

Or why retain $2.5 mil in cap to spend on a top 6 winger when we can qualify Jake so we can healthy scratch him.

Its like Benning hasnt even asked Green for input in roster decisions.

You really have to ask yourself this:

Would a real General Manager (see Gillis presentation) screw over BOTH of his coaches like this?

The answer is unequivocally no.

 

[vanuck]

Now even the media is wondering the same thing as us. Floating the idea of #tanknation out there:

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

For the 'not meddling theory' to be true we would have to accept the likelihood that a Billionaire with a UCLA MBA is going to delegate fiscal and management responsibilities to one, Jim Benning.

Not sure in what professional sphere this would make sense but in a franchise that hold the record of the only NHL franchise that has lost value over the past 7 years and it makes even less sense. Let Jim make decisions and leave FA to ponder how it effects his Billion dollar investment later?

Oh and then there was the interviews where Gillis and before him DN implying that is was a full time job answering their phones with the number of trade suggestion that were being made by FA. Oh and the interview where Patrick Johnson says ownership meddles.

But sure deny it because it fits with the narrative that Benning and Benning is the only incompetent functionary in the Nucks Organization known for their incompetence (if you want proof of this check out Weisbrod's ROR fiasco in Calgary). Somehow, this group has assembled as a cluster of ill cast actors. It reminds me of Ray Ferraro's response when he was asked a few years ago what Jim Benning should do on July 1, he replies, "Turn off his phone," but he couldn't even do that: evidence, the Triple-H's of the apocalypse he signed as UFAs recently.

The longer this plays out before Benning and Weisbrod are let go, the more it implies that FA is part of the Decision-making cluster.

I liked this quote that I found though: "The Canucks turned into a plodding, pedestrian, boring, injury-riddled team last season with precious few young talents in their lineup."
Local boy Jim Benning gets his first GM gig | Edmonton Journal

Well at least they have moved on from that.

 

[vanuck]

In terms of the overall outlook/direction of this organization, tonight's game has the greatest potential for change since... probably Game 4 vs. SJS in 2013?

So how many virgins do we have to sacrifice to the hockey gods for us to do what needs to be done?

 

[4Twenty]

Speculation: - Vancouver Canucks - Now 2nd in League Revenues !!!! Gillis know how to make $$$$


not much meddling talk back when this thread was made

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

There were primary sources at the time but start here and scroll to the comments: Free Agency Mailbag: The Future on Defense, Predicting the Canucks’ Record, and What to Expect From Tyler Myers

Enjoy, there are some deniers there as well.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

Speculation: - Vancouver Canucks - Now 2nd in League Revenues !!!! Gillis know how to make $$$$


not much meddling talk back when this thread was made

Simply because the GM was competent at that time.

Right now, the meddling excuse is the only thing some people, with a clear agenda, have in their favour. They also tried to pin that on the coach (who is not very good but not as bad as those people want to show us), but that argument was quickly debunked. But if the meddling was true, that means the great run of last year should be pinned on Aquilini too. Those people have to decide who was responsible for that. I would say COVID was the main reason, since it helped to stop the free fall in the standings.

 

[Fatass]

For the 'not meddling theory' to be true we would have to accept the likelihood that a Billionaire with a UCLA MBA is going to delegate fiscal and management responsibilities to one, Jim Benning.

Not sure in what professional sphere this would make sense but in a franchise that hold the record of the only NHL franchise that has lost value over the past 7 years and it makes even less sense. Let Jim make decisions and leave FA to ponder how it effects his Billion dollar investment later?

Oh and then there was the interviews where Gillis and before him DN implying that is was a full time job answering their phones with the number of trade suggestion that were being made by FA. Oh and the interview where Patrick Johnson says ownership meddles.

But sure deny it because it fits with the narrative that Benning and Benning is the only incompetent functionary in the Nucks Organization known for their incompetence (if you want proof of this check out Weisbrod's ROR fiasco in Calgary). Somehow, this group has assembled as a cluster of ill cast actors. It reminds me of Ray Ferraro's response when he was asked a few years ago what Jim Benning should do on July 1, he replies, "Turn off his phone," but he couldn't even do that: evidence, the Triple-H's of the apocalypse he signed as UFAs recently.

The longer this plays out before Benning and Weisbrod are let go, the more it implies that FA is part of the Decision-making cluster.

I liked this quote that I found though: "The Canucks turned into a plodding, pedestrian, boring, injury-riddled team last season with precious few young talents in their lineup."
Local boy Jim Benning gets his first GM gig | Edmonton Journal

Well at least they have moved on from that.

The evidence that Aquilini meddles is undeniable. I’m pretty sure we all accept that as a truism. But Benning is terrible as a GM regardless of the meddlesome owner. The whole management of this team, from the owner down, has been horrid from the day Benning signed up. We have Petey, Hughes, Bess and should build a supporting group around those guys. Aquilini needs to hire management who are good at doing that, while giving them the autonomy to do so.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Yes but you see I remember the 'the great run of last year' differently. I remember a hopelessly outmanned team collapsing to the area around its net, in front of a keeper who was playing out of his head in a performance that is still referred to as being Demko'd.
It was more of an aberration rather than a trend. Up until the shutdown, under the old rules, they probably didn't even make the postseason.

Despite having some fantastic young players they are not challengers for anything much other than 1st overall in a poor draft; if there is a draft this year.

 

[xtra]

We don't even know if there will be a draft this year. What a year to tank.

they would just hold the draft next year back to back. We would still get the high pick and more importantly get rid of benning.