LeBrun: "The Leafs are phoning around looking at defensemen on PTOs"

[Andrei79]

ITT a bunch of dudes who don't watch the team at all and just say the same headline bait shit from 5 yrs ago about 'muh Leafs defense bad' when ironically defense has been the least of the team's concerns of late.

Btw, just listing names of defenseman as your argument of why they're bad isn't an argument lol. The virgin Avalanche fan naming Brodie and Giordano as bad defensemen is some comedic shit

What's actually been said, by a Leafs fan, is that the Leafs had one of the best defenses in the league, which many disagreed with.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

You clearly don't watch actual championship hockey. I said Brodie and Reilly aren't past their prime. Muzzin is. Giordano certainly is. Lilegeen and Sandin are unproven.

ever since the Avs won the cup some of you have been awfully cocky towards the Toronto fan base for some odd reason

 

[Arthur Morgan]

That’s actually false and I’m far from an Oilers fan. Ceci has been a solid second pairing D for them and Barrie is not worse than Toronto’s bottom pair.

he was beyond terrible in Toronto

 

[Leaf Fans]

You can't deny the risk and vulnerability, however.

Leafs fans have been complaining about the 3 or 4 month slump of Campbell last year. But what if the Leafs get sub .900 play for the whole season from their goalie(s)?

And what if this experiment with Marner affects him negatively and he either gets hurt or becomes less effective?

I'm not saying any of those things will happen. It could also work out marvelously.

People can euphemise it by avoiding the D word and saying "what's to lose?" but it's hard to deny some form of desperation isn't behind it.

Sure, if everything goes bad, the results would be bad.Same for any team. However, it is easy to deny that some form of desperation is behind it it as there reason to believe that there is. It is not even that new. The torpedo system in Swedish hockey is similar. However, the Leafs will attempt their version ( if that is what it is we haven't seen it yet) situationally. Obviously, things can go wrong it can also be easily scrapped.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I've watched a lot of Barrie, he would be in your top 4. Bouchard is way better than the leafs young players. Ceci is way better than holl.

You mad?

Are you sure about that? you know he was a Leaf before and he likely would be a 5/6 guy here now. he was TERRIBLE here. maybe he would get PP mins but no way hes a top4 in Toronto not with
Rielly-Brodie
Gio-Liljegren
I got Liljegren there because he played very well with Gio and I assume they will play a fair amount together this season.
Barrie would have to out play those guys after watching him for that season Im not sure his defensive play would get him the position

Edit* I forgot Muzzin too. just really been injury prone lately

 

[NewEraGM]

People going to a game and saying that the Leafs defence is going to be tough to play against.

Wait so you actually think some teams think the leafs defense is scary or hard to play against?!

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

What you need to understand zeke, is that you can reason that Reilly is elite, or Brodie is this and Muzzin is that all day long, but the truth of the matter is that defense scares no one offensively, defensively or even physically. No one is going in to a game and saying ohh boy this leafs defense is going to be tough to play against. No one has ever said that…

So while they have a good defense - somewhere around 10th best I’d say, it’s not to 3 or even top 5

I think they're in the 5-9 range interchangeably, but I dont think being scared of the defense matters here. It's a way you can build a D corp, but not the only way.

The Leafs D right now is designed to transition the puck efficiently while not being braindead and making awful reads (Barrie-types) giving a lot of that offense back.

What makes the Leafs D so effective is seldomly do they even have to consider moving bodies from the middle of the ice/their net because they don't get cycled on. They have guys who retrieve pucks and dont succumb to forcheck pressure as well.

The reason people can't evaluate defense is because our eyes see what we see, and not what we don't see. If you watch Brodie come back and get the puck off a dump in and move it up the ice efficiently before a forchecker gets to him, we see that as a lack of forcheck or limited forcheck rather than a player who moves his feet effectively and doesn't have to deal with pressure.

Their underlying numbers speak for themselves and is why the old narrative is a silly one. Dubas outright built the best D core this organization has had in 20 years. It's not even all that close. Their potential problem right now is goaltending (roll of the dice) and the 3rd/4th lines having limited offensive ability.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I think you overrate the Leafs group tbh.
The only 3 clearly above him are Reilly, Brodie and Muzzin when healthy. Then I’d go:
Ceci
Giordano
Barrie/Holl

Giordano is really a shadow of his former self at this point. I’m also sceptical on Muzzin this year as well.

I know what ur saying and I agree but both are and can still be very good while healthy. I thought Gio played very well with Toronto, until his age completely slows him down I assume he will just be good, Muzzin has had his injury history and even said hes been scared to go all out in fear of reinjuring himself so I understand being skeptical on them.

I think they can be very effective still I just hope the weird freak injuries to Muzzin come to an end.
Gio really did surprise me when he came here. I didnt expect him to play as well as he did and also help Liljegren's overall game, even if Gio isn't even close to how he was last year if he can mentor Liljegren/Sandin and help then take that next step.
I'll be happy

 

[John Mandalorian]

Sure, if everything goes bad, the results would be bad.Same for any team. However, it is easy to deny that some form of desperation is behind it it as there reason to believe that there is. It is not even that new. The torpedo system in Swedish hockey is similar. However, the Leafs will attempt their version ( if that is what it is we haven't seen it yet) situationally. Obviously, things can go wrong it can also be easily scrapped.

Not "any team" is playing around with a position change for an 11 million dollar player.

Don't get me wrong. It's a fascinating gamble and I applaud the Leafs for thinking outside the box.

Like I said, it could work out marvelously or be a disaster.

It's an interesting way to try to manufacture a Makar.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Wait so you actually think some teams think the leafs defense is scary or hard to play against?!

No, like you, I don't know what other teams think or even if they think collectivly. Though you mentioned that anyone going to the have never said that the Leafs defence is going to be tough to play against. They may not have said that to you, but for all we know, Zeke could go to the games himself and say exactly that. I don't know for sure, but I do know that you can't speak for others or for teams.

 

[NewEraGM]

I think they're in the 5-9 range interchangeably, but I dont think being scared of the defense matters here. It's a way you can build a D corp, but not the only way.

The Leafs D right now is designed to transition the puck efficiently while not being braindead and making awful reads (Barrie-types) giving a lot of that offense back.

What makes the Leafs D so effective is seldomly do they even have to consider moving bodies from the middle of the ice/their net because they don't get cycled on. They have guys who retrieve pucks and dont succumb to forcheck pressure as well.

The reason people can't evaluate defense is because our eyes see what we see, and not what we don't see. If you watch Brodie come back and get the puck off a dump in and move it up the ice efficiently before a forchecker gets to him, we see that as a lack of forcheck or limited forcheck rather than a player who moves his feet effectively and doesn't have to deal with pressure.

Their underlying numbers speak for themselves and is why the old narrative is a silly one. Dubas outright built the best D core this organization has had in 20 years. It's not even all that close. Their potential problem right now is goaltending (roll of the dice) and the 3rd/4th lines having limited offensive ability.

When I say “no one is scared of them” I don’t just mean physically, I mean it in every way. No one is scared of them defensively, I’m transition, physically, etc.

I just don’t ever see or have ever seen the defence take over a game and obviously never a series

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Wait so you actually think some teams think the leafs defense is scary or hard to play against?!

are any teams Defense scary? Leafs were a 115point team so they had to of won alot of games, and that was alot of wins with shotty goaltending for majority of the season so I would think Leafs D are atleast Above Average to pretty good but scary? like actually being scared to step on the ice against them? dont think a single team fit into that category

 

[NewEraGM]

are any teams Defense scary? Leafs were a 115point team so they had to of won alot of games, and that was alot of wins with shotty goaltending for majority of the season so I would think Leafs D are atleast Above Average to pretty good but scary? like actually being scared to step on the ice against them? dont think a single team fit into that category

Again, I’m not just talking scary as I’m physically scary but for example, Makar is scary. Hedman is scary. Leafs defense is not scary in any way, obviously not physically, not defensively, not offensively, not in transition….

And to be clear, again, I’m not saying it’s a bad defense. I have them around 10th but could easily see how someone has them 7th or 8th but they are not top 3 or even top 5. No chance

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

Not "any team" is playing around with a position change for an 11 million dollar player.

Don't get me wrong. It's a fascinating gamble and I applaud the Leafs for thinking outside the box.

Like I said, it could work out marvelously or be a disaster.

It's an interesting way to try to manufacture a Makar.

Marner will play defense during the final 8 minutes(?) Of a 3rd period where the Leafs are down by 1 so that they can load up

Rielly-Marner
Tavares Matthews Nylander

For a few shifts without the goalie pulled (at 6v5 they already have played Marner there and one traditional D).

It's.. not that crazy. Hes not playing D when he goes out there anyway, hes going to be an offensive rover.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Again, I’m not just talking scary as I’m physically scary but for example, Makar is scary. Hedman is scary. Leafs defense is not scary in any way, obviously not physically, not defensively, not offensively, not in transition….

And to be clear, again, I’m not saying it’s a bad defense. I have them around 10th but could easily see how someone has them 7th or 8th but they are not top 3 or even top 5. No chance

I dont think anyone ever claimed Leafs have a top top3 or top5 D core. (actually it's HF someone prob did)
10th seems more than fair. and i was mostly just joking with the scary comment

 

[NewEraGM]

I dont think anyone ever claimed Leafs have a top top3 or top5 D core. (actually it's HF someone prob did)
10th seems more than fair. and i was mostly just joking with the scary comment

Zeke is claiming it’s top 3

 

[John Mandalorian]

Marner will play defense during the final 8 minutes(?) Of a 3rd period where the Leafs are down by 1 so that they can load up

Rielly-Marner
Tavares Matthews Nylander

For a few shifts without the goalie pulled (at 6v5 they already have played Marner there and one traditional D).

It's.. not that crazy. Hes not playing D when he goes out there anyway, hes going to be an offensive rover.

People say it's situationally specific now. But if it works, they'll do it more and more. If Marner gets crushed on the forecheck and loses time, it might also end pretty quickly.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Zeke is claiming it’s top 3

I missed that, lol Leafs D isn't that bad but it isn't that good either

 

[zeke]

Muzzin has not played a single pre-season game due to injury.

Benn and Dahlstrom got injured the last game vs MTL.

Liljegren has a hernia and needs surgery.

I believe Benn and Mete have always been in Dubas' plans as league min. depth defense. Possibly as 6-7 D.

I might be incorrect, but I also believe that you (like many fans) don't have Holl playing in TOR due to his cap hit.

So here is the healthy roster until I see Muzzin playing in preseason:

Rielly Brodie
Giordano ______
Sandin _______
Mete

Now Toronto should be able to fill in with Muzzin better, Liljegren returning from surgery, and Benn returning. They do have AHLers. I don't think it's outrageous to say that Dubas' is covering his ass by looking around the league at D-Men on PTOs.

The opening night defense, all of whom are currently healthy, will be Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Gio, Sandin, Holl.

Liljegren is injured.

What you need to understand zeke, is that you can reason that Reilly is elite, or Brodie is this and Muzzin is that all day long, but the truth of the matter is that defense scares no one offensively, defensively or even physically. No one is going in to a game and saying ohh boy this leafs defense is going to be tough to play against. No one has ever said that…

So while they have a good defense - somewhere around 10th best I’d say, it’s not to 3 or even top 5

Actually, every team does.

 

[NewEraGM]

The opening night defense, all of whom are currently healthy, will be Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin, Gio, Sandin, Holl.

Liljegren is injured.



Actually, every team does.

Ummm no but ok I’ll ask anyways….what scares them about leafs defense??

 

[ACC1224]

Ummm no but ok I’ll ask anyways….what scares them about leafs defense??

Holl scares the hell out of the fan base every time he's on the ice.

 

[zeke]

Ummm no but ok I’ll ask anyways….what scares them about leafs defense??

The fact that they are really good at hockey.

 

[zeke]

You can't deny the risk and vulnerability, however.

Leafs fans have been complaining about the 3 or 4 month slump of Campbell last year. But what if the Leafs get sub .900 play for the whole season from their goalie(s)?

And what if this experiment with Marner affects him negatively and he either gets hurt or becomes less effective?

I'm not saying any of those things will happen. It could also work out marvelously.

People can euphemise it by avoiding the D word and saying "what's to lose?" but it's hard to deny some form of desperation isn't behind it.

The Leafs goaltending gave them an 89.97sv% over the whole season last year.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The Leafs goaltending gave them an 89.97sv% over the whole season last year.

OK, but wasn't that an average with peals and valleys? I'm mainly talking about every month being the valley.

 

[zeke]

OK, but wasn't that an average with peals and valleys? I'm mainly talking about every month being the valley.

Well you said sub-900 for the year....which is what they got.

But let's break down the peaks and valleys:

OCT .893sv%, 82pt pace
NOV .953sv%, 141pt pace
DEC .893sv%, 105pt pace
JAN .890sv%, 127pt pace
FEB .889sv%, 103pt pace
MAR .876sv%, 100pt pace
APR .894sv%, 131pt pace

Even worse than I remember - only one month all season where the Leafs goaltending was above .894sv%. Just brutal.

Also only 1 month where the Leafs were under 100pt pace - the shortened October where their offense just couldn't score for some reason.