The Jim Benning & Management Megathread Part III

[SillyRabbit]

In what plausible way does the future look worse now?

Because we have a lot less assets than we did under Gillis.

Benning has traded off most of our roster without getting adequate value back.

I would rather have all of our players back and return all the assets Benning has acquired.

Any other GM would get a much better return for those players, and draft equally or better.

Did you not read my analogy?

Sure, we have more coins now, but we gave up a $100 bill for $35 in change. That's a loss any way you look at it.

 

[The Stig]

Because we have a lot less assets than we did under Gillis.

Benning has traded off most of our roster without getting adequate value back.

I would rather have all of our players back and return all the assets Benning has acquired.

Any other GM would get a much better return for those players, and draft equally or better.

Did you not read my analogy?

Sure, we have more coins now, but we gave up a $100 bill for $35 in change. That's a loss any way you look at it.

Yea, your analogy was stupid. You're just making things up to justify your opinion. What less assets? Virtanen? Baertschi? A 2nd round pick for Casual Kev?

Do I like all of Bennings moves? Of course not. But man alive, you are blowing this stuff so far out of proportion. Besides Lack, what young asset did we lose? Kassian? He had three years to show some form of consistency. He got traded due to his own lack of effort and he straight up admitted that he could have done more here. $100 to $35 my ass.

 

[vanuck]

Consistency. Going 20+ games without a goal isn't good no matter who you are. He's injury prone and had off ice issues.

The perception of that consistency is partly a product of injury and partly due to random chance. He struggled for a bit coming back from that LBI and his finger but was still playing well overall. Don't know how being injury prone is a knock against his on-ice contributions.

And despite all that stuff you mentioned, he's still been a net positive on the ice. Even with that already as a baseline, imagine if he "gets it together"...

 

[nameless1]

God damn you make that hard to read.
The thing is, did we get worse? Because we added scoring and the Sedins bounced back. We went from 25th overall to a 101pt team. People keep saying we got worse but I've yet to actually see any evidence of that.

All the years are in different paragraphs.


On forward...
The team went from Kesler to Bonino.
Horvat's emergence helped offset some of that loss...
But even the combined efforts of both him and Bonino could not fully replace Kesler.
Plus...
He was already in the system...
So I cannot attribute him to Benning.
Dorsett helped a bit...
But he basically just replaced Santorelli's contributions...
And Vey was no more than a situational 13th forward.
Vrbata was a good move...
And he was a godsend.
However...
What really helped was that the Sedins returned to being top line players...
With the production to match.
All in all...
I cannot say that Benning made the forward corps better...
But I think he pretty much broke even.

On defense...
It went from Garrison to Sbisa.
Weber's improvement helped...
But he was part of the team already...
So Benning cannot take credit for that.
Edler's return to a steady player was good to see...
But that was basically cancelled out by Bieksa's decline.
Once again...
I cannot say Benning made the defense better.

The goalie position was probably the only position that improved...
But by season's end...
The supposed backup had supplanted the starter...
So the early assessment became questionable.

While I will say that the team got more depth...
It really did not get better.
The improvement in standings was basically all due to a correction...
Because the team really was not as bad as 2014 indicated.

 

[Cupless44]

Exactly.

No one was against a "re-tool" of sorts, but Jim Benning completely botched it so badly that it's become a full on rebuild.

Our future looks worse now than it did under Gillis.

Sure we have a few more young players, but Benning got such little value for our players and honestly hasn't drafted any better than Gillis (Who has gone on record saying that he wanted Nylander/Ehlers).

Basically it's like we had a $100 bill, and we wanted some change.

So Jim Benning comes along and gives us $35 in toonies, loonies and quarters.

And now people are defending Benning saying "under Gillis we had no change! Look at all the change Benning brought us! He's a great GM!"

Except they're overlooking the $65 that Benning pissed away, claiming that it "wasn't worth as much as you think it was."

Lets not over react too much here.

Firstly. Benning has not made a "retool" into a "rebuild" The term retool was never accurate or realistic. With Gillis or Benning the team needed to start the rebuilding cycle. Inevitable when all the key players are over 30 and in decline with a void of young players ready for the NHL.

I wouldn't say the future looks worse now. Benning added as many young prospects in 1 year as Gillis did in 5.

I agree and am not thrilled with the return on Lack or Kassian (Bieksa was fine) but lets not get carried away with the level of damage that caused the future. Lack ideally would have returned a 2nd not a 3rd, but if Markstrom becomes a stud we wont give Lack much thought. Kassian I would have liked to hang onto another year to see what happens but I certainly wouldn't bet my house that he puts it together and becomes an impact player. No team was going to pay a huge price for an enigma like Kassian, though throwing in a pick as well to get Prust isn't very good.

 

[nameless1]

Lets not over react too much here.

Firstly. Benning has not made a "retool" into a "rebuild" The term retool was never accurate or realistic. With Gillis or Benning the team needed to start the rebuilding cycle. Inevitable when all the key players are over 30 and in decline with a void of young players ready for the NHL.

I wouldn't say the future looks worse now. Benning added as many young prospects in 1 year as Gillis did in 5.

I agree and am not thrilled with the return on Lack or Kassian (Bieksa was fine) but lets not get carried away with the level of damage that caused the future. Lack ideally would have returned a 2nd not a 3rd, but if Markstrom becomes a stud we wont give Lack much thought. Kassian I would have liked to hang onto another year to see what happens but I certainly wouldn't bet my house that he puts it together and becomes an impact player. No team was going to pay a huge price for an enigma like Kassian, though throwing in a pick as well to get Prust isn't very good.

I am fine with the rest of your post...
But even if Markstrom becomes a stud...
Does not excuse the trade.
Any GM should try to maximize value.

Plus...
Benning could have just gone the Hodgson route with Kassian...
And put him in the position to succeed.
There was no rush to get rid of the guy either.
I just think it was terrible asset management...
To be honest.

Bieksa is just a weird case.
I will admit that I would have been happy with a fourth...
But it still felt like Benning somehow bundled the whole situation.
I do not know how that is possible.

 

[Cupless44]

All the years are in different paragraphs.


On forward...
The team went from Kesler to Bonino.
Horvat's emergence helped offset some of that loss...
But even the combined efforts of both him and Bonino could not fully replace Kesler.
Plus...
He was already in the system...
So I cannot attribute him to Benning.
Dorsett helped a bit...
But he basically just replaced Santorelli's contributions...
And Vey was no more than a situational 13th forward.
Vrbata was a good move...
And he helped greatly.
However...
What really helped was that the Sedins returned to being top line players...
With the production to match.
I cannot honestly say that Benning made the forward corps better...
But I think he pretty much just broke even.

On defense...
It went from Garrison to Sbisa...
While Bieksa's decline was clearly felt.
Weber's improvement helped...
But he was part of the team already.
Edler's return to a steady player helped...
But he was basically cancelled out by Bieksa's decline.
Once again...
I cannot say Benning made the defense better.

The goalie position was probably the only position that improved...
But by season's end...
The supposed backup had supplanted the starter...
So the early assessment became questionable.

While I will say that the team got more depth...
It really did not get better.
The improvement in standings was basically all due to a correction...
Because the team really was not as bad as 2014 indicated.

There is much drama and fan unrest going on but I think the bottom line is that the team is about the same and in the same predicament, which is needing to get younger. Its going to take the patience to draft and develop well. Only real solution here.

Sure some of Bennings moves haven't been ideal, but I also don't think most are castrophes setting the rebuild back some like to make it out to be. When Benning got here, he inherited the 2nd oldest team in the league. Torts nailed it when he called this core old and stale. Not an easy quick fix here.

Actually the trade I don't like is the principle of the Kesler trade. I don't like Bonino or Sbisa, McCann is the good piece. If ownership had allowed it, the way to go was trying to get all young prospects or picks like a Theodore. That might be on an ownership mandate though, not on Benning. Rumor has it Gillis wanted to move Kelser for 2 1sts and ownership squashed it.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Yea, your analogy was stupid. You're just making things up to justify your opinion. What less assets? Virtanen? Baertschi? A 2nd round pick for Casual Kev?

Do I like all of Bennings moves? Of course not. But man alive, you are blowing this stuff so far out of proportion. Besides Lack, what young asset did we lose? Kassian? He had three years to show some form of consistency. He got traded due to his own lack of effort and he straight up admitted that he could have done more here. $100 to $35 my ass.

Jim Benning has lost every trade he's made as GM of the Canucks.

Poor returns for Kesler, Garrison, Lack, Kassian and Bieksa.

He also gave away a 2nd rounder for Vey.

On top of that, he let Santorelli, Matthias, Richardson and Stanton walk for nothing.

In terms of drafting, he cost us one of Ehlers/Nylander in favor of Virtanen.

If we could hit the reset button and go back to the beginning of last summer, i'd do it in a heartbeat. There is almost no way that we could've had a worse year in terms of asset management.

That isn't even factoring in the bad contracts and purging of the only intelligent management staff that we had left.

 

[Cupless44]

I am fine with the rest of your post...
But even if Markstrom becomes a stud...
Does not excuse the trade.
Any GM should try to maximize value.

Plus...
Benning could have just gone the Hodgson route with Kassian...
And put him in the position to succeed.
There was no rush to get rid of the guy either.
I just think it was terrible asset management...
To be honest.

Bieksa is just a weird case.
I will admit that I would have been happy with a fourth...
But it still felt like Benning somehow bundled the whole situation.
I do not know how that is possible.

Rumors persist that Doug Wilson is a bit of a jerk to deal with. I don't think Benning was happy which is why he took Anaheim's 2016 in the end maybe.

I feel the same about Kassian, but I think there might be more going on than meets the high, they really wanted to get him out of here for some reason.

I cant argue with the anti Benning gang about the trading. It hasn't been Benning's strongest suit so far. I guess like all trades time will be the final judge. Baertschi could change a lot. If that one move goes our way and Baertschi finally realizes his draft potential and becomes a really good player that will impact the team in a hugely positive way. A big win like that could overshadow the Kassian and Lack deals.

 

[nameless1]

There is much drama and fan unrest going on but I think the bottom line is that the team is about the same and in the same predicament, which is needing to get younger. Its going to take the patience to draft and develop well. Only real solution here.

Sure some of Bennings moves haven't been ideal, but I also don't think most are castrophes setting the rebuild back some like to make it out to be. When Benning got here, he inherited the 2nd oldest team in the league. Torts nailed it when he called this core old and stale. Not an easy quick fix here.

Actually the trade I don't like is the principle of the Kesler trade. I don't like Bonino or Sbisa, McCann is the good piece. If ownership had allowed it, the way to go was trying to get all young prospects or picks like a Theodore. That might be on an ownership mandate though, not on Benning. Rumor has it Gillis wanted to move Kelser for 2 1sts and ownership squashed it.

The rumour I heard was some combination of Anaheim's 4 early round picks and prospects.
It could be both firsts...
But I heard it was 2 prospects and a early first.
Honestly...
No one but Gillis, Murray, and ownership knows...
But I would have preferred that mystery box...
Rather than the actual deal.
The team definitely did not get a boat.


I agree with your post.
I think the refusal to go younger...
And go for ready to contribute pieces instead...
Is what irks the people here.
I think many of the sensible folks in the market are ready for a rebuild...
But it is the owners who are still hung up on that 2011 glory days.
They want to feel like as heroes...
And while I understand their position...
I cannot agree with it.

 

[nameless1]

Rumors persist that Doug Wilson is a bit of a jerk to deal with. I don't think Benning was happy which is why he took Anaheim's 2016 in the end maybe.

I feel the same about Kassian, but I think there might be more going on than meets the high, they really wanted to get him out of here for some reason.

I cant argue with the anti Benning gang about the trading. It hasn't been Benning's strongest suit so far. I guess like all trades time will be the final judge. Baertschi could change a lot. If that one move goes our way and Baertschi finally realizes his draft potential and becomes a really good player that will impact the team in a hugely positive way. A big win like that could overshadow the Kassian and Lack deals.

Yeah...
I heard that about Wilson too.
It sounds like he changed up the deal at the last minute...
And Benning got really annoyed.

Here is what ultimately bugs me though.
If Benning can get a second rounder that easily...
I feel other GMs would have probably gotten another pick.
It may not be another high pick...
But a fourth...
Or even a fifth...
Seems possible...
And not too far-fetched.
With Benning...
I always feel that the Canucks GM never maximizes trade value.

I agree with you on Baertschi.
To be frank...
I do think Benning overpaid...
Since Calgary clearly was ready to move on...
But if he becomes a top 6 player...
Then all will be forgiven.

I do think we are too entrenched right now...
And the arguments have become a bit circular.
Perhaps we do need to back off a bit...
And let time decide.
Still...
That probably means we are ready for hockey season to start now...
And honestly...
I will take that...
Over complete silence.

 

[Cupless44]

Jim Benning has lost every trade he's made as GM of the Canucks.

Poor returns for Kesler, Garrison, Lack, Kassian and Bieksa.

He also gave away a 2nd rounder for Vey.

On top of that, he let Santorelli, Matthias, Richardson and Stanton walk for nothing.

In terms of drafting, he cost us one of Ehlers/Nylander in favor of Virtanen.

If we could hit the reset button and go back to the beginning of last summer, i'd do it in a heartbeat. There is almost no way that we could've had a worse year in terms of asset management.

That isn't even factoring in the bad contracts and purging of the only intelligent management staff that we had left.

Benning did not lose the Bieksa trade. A 2nd round pick for a 34 year old, declining 3rd pair defenceman making 4.6 million is just fine.

Too early (and tiring)for critisizing Ehlers/Nylander over Virtanen. They are 19 years old, time will tell.

 

[Peen]

I do think we're going younger next season.

Kenins is successful if he plays hard and hits hard. That's what desjardins told me. He also said straight forward baertschi will be given a chance to succeed - aka he gets a top six role.

If you look at it, Kenins is on a one way and Benning has continuously hinted/suggested at Virt being a part of the opening day roster.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Baertschi - Bonino - Vrbata
Higgins - Horvat - Hansen
Prust - Vey - Dorsett
Kenins - Virtanen.

If they're planning on keeping Virtanen, and they've already said they want to keep 8 d up, it means someone is getting moved. Even without the Linden confirmation of the Higgins thing - for me I figured someone was getting moved. I think it all could have been voided had we not brought in Prust but whatever.

Anyways, if Higgins goes it adds another wing spot - and then I think we see Virtanen start as 13th forward.

 

[Cupless44]

The rumour I heard was some combination of Anaheim's 4 early round picks and prospects.
It could be both firsts...
But I heard it was 2 prospects and a early first.
Honestly...
No one but Gillis, Murray, and ownership knows...
But I would have preferred that mystery box...
Rather than the actual deal.
The team definitely did not get a boat.


I agree with your post.
I think the refusal to go younger...
And go for ready to contribute pieces instead...
Is what irks the people here.
I think many of the sensible folks in the market are ready for a rebuild...
But it is the owners who are still hung up on that 2011 glory days.
They want to feel like as heroes...
And while I understand their position...
I cannot agree with it.

Not grasping reality will only result in 6 long non playoff years like the Flames who tried to hang on too long and didn't move their older assets in time.

The best thing for us is really to miss the playoffs in another decent draft and be sellers at the trade deadline. No question Benning has to do better at getting value for the likes of Vrbata and Hamhuis if they are dealt. Higgins from the sounds of things will be tougher. His playoff numbers are dismal.

 

[The Stig]

Jim Benning has lost every trade he's made as GM of the Canucks.

Poor returns for Kesler, Garrison, Lack, Kassian and Bieksa.

He also gave away a 2nd rounder for Vey.

On top of that, he let Santorelli, Matthias, Richardson and Stanton walk for nothing.

In terms of drafting, he cost us one of Ehlers/Nylander in favor of Virtanen.

If we could hit the reset button and go back to the beginning of last summer, i'd do it in a heartbeat. There is almost no way that we could've had a worse year in terms of asset management.

That isn't even factoring in the bad contracts and purging of the only intelligent management staff that we had left.

Poor return for Bieksa? Ok now I know you're playing with me. You try getting more than a 2nd for him. He won the Baertschi trade. Vey put up double digit goals as a rookie. So we cant say he lost that one yet either until we see how he plays out.

The Santorelli crap again. This is the guy that went AWOL as soon as he got traded to a team with any kind of talent. Yea lets bring him back. Go ask how much Nashville fans like him.

Richardson became obsolete with Horvat blooming and went for way to much money. You wanna sign his for 2mil+? Be my guest. And Stanton.....woooboy what will we ever do without Ryan Stanton there to keep the pressbox warm?Nobody's signed him for a reason. Hes not wanted.

 

[nameless1]

I do think we're going younger next season.

Kenins is successful if he plays hard and hits hard. That's what desjardins told me. He also said straight forward baertschi will be given a chance to succeed - aka he gets a top six role.

If you look at it, Kenins is on a one way and Benning has continuously hinted/suggested at Virt being a part of the opening day roster.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Baertschi - Bonino - Vrbata
Higgins - Horvat - Hansen
Prust - Vey - Dorsett
Kenins - Virtanen.

If they're planning on keeping Virtanen, and they've already said they want to keep 8 d up, it means someone is getting moved. Even without the Linden confirmation of the Higgins thing - for me I figured someone was getting moved. I think it all could have been voided had we not brought in Prust but whatever.

Anyways, if Higgins goes it adds another wing spot - and then I think we see Virtanen start as 13th forward.

Unless the team plans to shuffle Virtanen back and forth...
It seems like a waste of development...
For him to be the 13th forward.
It seems to be wiser...
Just to keep him at the AHL level...
And let me attempt to be the top dog.

 

[Peen]

Unless the team plans to shuffle Virtanen back and forth...
It seems like a waste of development...
For him to be the 13th forward.
It seems to be wiser...
Just to keep him at the AHL level...
And let me attempt to be the top dog.

Again, I don't think it's how the season plays out. He will start as 13th forward for a game or two, and will then slot in quickly and be given a run. He will play out his nine games, but it will not be within the first nine games of the season. That is my projection.

He is not AHL eligible. This is the problem. He is only using his physical tools at the junior level. He needs to learn the rest of the game. I am willing to deal with these issues. I think Willie would be if he's going to compete hard and hit hard every shift, because he will be in a bottom six role to start the season.

For me that's where it turns into an issue of - okay if we're going to be playing him in a Kenins type way - are we taking away from his potential growth in other parts of the game?

 

[Cupless44]

Yeah...
I heard that about Wilson too.
It sounds like he changed up the deal at the last minute...
And Benning got really annoyed.

Here is what ultimately bugs me though.
If Benning can get a second rounder that easily...
I feel other GMs would have probably gotten another pick.
It may not be another high pick...
But a fourth...
Or even a fifth...
Seems possible...
And not too far-fetched.
With Benning...
I always feel that the Canucks GM never maximizes trade value.

I agree with you on Baertschi.
To be frank...
I do think Benning overpaid...
Since Calgary clearly was ready to move on...
But if he becomes a top 6 player...
Then all will be forgiven.

I do think we have become too entrenched...
And the arguments have become a bit circular.
Perhaps we do need to back off a bit...
And let time decide.
Still...
That probably means we are ready for hockey season to start now...
And honestly...
I will take that...
Over complete silence.

I hear ya. I actually am not thrilled with all the moves I just think the vitriol gets a bit carried away. Slamming 7th round draft choices is a bit much. I also think some of the moves need time to play out. The guy has been on the job 1 year.

LOL I can imagine if Sbisa gets it together and plays well next year and by the time he is 27 becomes a solid top 4 guy so when 3.6 kicks in the contract looks decent. That would be pretty funny actually. Not placing bets mind you, but he was a first round pick and would not be the first NHL defenceman to take a few years to get it together. Cowen, Gubrundson, Bagosian are 3 first round picks off the top of my head that struggled for a while, the first 2 still have a ways to go.

 

[nameless1]

Not grasping reality will only result in 6 long non playoff years like the Flames who tried to hang on too long and didn't move their older assets in time.

The best thing for us is really to miss the playoffs in another decent draft and be sellers at the trade deadline. No question Benning has to do better at getting value for the likes of Vrbata and Hamhuis if they are dealt. Higgins from the sounds of things will be tougher. His playoff numbers are dismal.

I agree...
But Linden continues to talk playoffs at the summit.
The move for Prust also indicates that the post-season is indeed the team's direction.

That is why a lot of us are rather flabbergasted...
Because everything management has done seems to just have the opposite effect.
In fact...
It has almost become comically bad...
And I would laugh...
If I am not such a big fan.


I do hope Benning does get a good package for his two biggest trade pieces left...
But I would not be surprised...
If he receives far less than advertised.
We can only hope that there is a big market for their services...
So there are no wrong choices with the returns.

Higgins is what I do not get.
I figure at 2 years...
2.5 million per year...
Someone of his caliber would not be that hard to move.
Sure...
He has a NTC...
But he can only block 10 teams.
Surely 20 other teams would love to have a good third liner...
Who can move up in a pinch.
He even comes younger and cheaper than Ward...
Who signed for 3.25 per year.

That is why I feel that perhaps Benning does not want to move him...
Because his absence creates even more of a hole.

 

[Cupless44]

I agree...
But Linden continues to talk playoffs at the summit.
The move for Prust also indicates that the post-season is indeed the team's direction.

That is why a lot of us are rather flabbergasted...
Because everything management has done seems to just have the opposite effect.
In fact...
It has almost become comically bad...
And I would laugh...
If I am not such a big fan.


I do hope Benning does get a good package for his two biggest trade pieces left...
But I would not be surprised...
If he receives far less than advertised.
We can only hope that there is a big market for their services...
So there are no wrong choices with the returns.

Higgins is what I do not get.
I figure at 2 years...
2.5 million per year...
Someone of his caliber would not be that hard to move.
Sure...
He has a NTC...
But he can only block 10 teams.
Surely 20 other teams would love to have a good third liner...
Who can move up in a pinch.
He even comes younger and cheaper than Ward...
Who signed for 3.25 per year.

That is why I feel that perhaps Benning does not want to move him...
Because his absence creates even more of a hole.

Linden can talk playoffs but do you think Kings and Stars aren't there next year? Oilers much better. I don't see who we beat, but we might surprise a bit but will be on bubble at best.

I think the problem with Higgins is the 2 years and why would you acquire him for a playoff run? He has one goal in his last 15 playoff games, most of that on our 2nd line.

 

[nameless1]

I hear ya. I actually am not thrilled with all the moves I just think the vitriol gets a bit carried away. Slamming 7th round draft choices is a bit much. I also think some of the moves need time to play out. The guy has been on the job 1 year.

LOL I can imagine if Sbisa gets it together and plays well next year and by the time he is 27 becomes a solid top 4 guy so when 3.6 kicks in the contract looks decent. That would be pretty funny actually. Not placing bets mind you, but he was a first round pick and would not be the first NHL defenceman to take a few years to get it together. Cowen, Gubrundson, Bagosian are 3 first round picks off the top of my head that struggled for a while, the first 2 still have a ways to go.

It is possible...
But I am doubtful.
Most people forget that Sbisa has been in the league for 7 years...
And in the last 4...
His development has become stagnant.
Basically...
He is a veteran at this point...
And what we see...
Is what we get.

Cowen and Gudbranson both spent one more year in the minors...
So they are actually developed the right way.
They are just not as good as their draft position...
Which happens.
They still have a bit of time...
Since they are 24 and 23 respectably...
But next year is pivotal...
As it would be their fifth year in the league.
If they show no improvements...
They can basically be written off.
Bogosian actually showed more promise than them...
Until he signed that big contract.
Then he just tried to do too much...
And his game suffered.
He was just a guy who needed a change of scenery...
Because the new coaches will give him a new start...
And adjust the expectations.

 

[nameless1]

Linden can talk playoffs but do you think Kings and Stars aren't there next year? Oilers much better. I don't see who we beat, but we might surprise a bit but will be on bubble at best.

I think the problem with Higgins is the 2 years and why would you acquire him for a playoff run? He has one goal in his last 15 playoff games, most of that on our 2nd line.

I too doubt the Canucks will be in the playoffs...
But the thing is...
All of Benning's moves this year are...
On paper...
Supposed to move the team forward...
But in actuality...
Just accomplishes the opposite.
That is what bothers...
Confuses...
And worries...
Me.
It really feels like the front office is incompetent.


You may be right...
But Santorelli still had some value...
Even though he did basically nothing after the second half of the season.
I figure desperate teams will do desperate things...
And Higgins can actually perform for a full season.
Perhaps he will be easier to move...
Closer to the trade deadline.
Either way...
I just do not think he is that unmovable.

 

[nameless1]

nameless, would it be too much to ask if you could please sum up your thoughts on management briefly/in normal prose? Im sure you say lots of good things but i dont know if ive ever had the patience to finish a post.

Sure.

I do think my poetry style ices a lot of arguments though, and sometimes, that is needed.


I will do it for this thread though. There are some interesting conversations here.

 

[moog35]

Because we have a lot less assets than we did under Gillis.

Benning has traded off most of our roster without getting adequate value back.

I would rather have all of our players back and return all the assets Benning has acquired.

Any other GM would get a much better return for those players, and draft equally or better.

Did you not read my analogy?

Sure, we have more coins now, but we gave up a $100 bill for $35 in change. That's a loss any way you look at it.

So much wrong in this post, I don't even know where to start…...

 

[arttk]

2011 Cup Final
2012 First round loss
2013 First round sweep
2014 Miss Playoffs

Clearly the Canucks were trending upwards under Gillis, keep it coming.

Clearly we weren't declining.

2012- daniel injured, Kesler recovering from season long injury
2013- worst penalty differential in modern era? Like 20ish minutes difference?
2015 back to the playoffs with the same core.

Yeah we didn't make it out of the first round in 2012,13,15.
I don't see that as a reason to pack bags and go home.
I mean with the Sedins we are a playoff team and in a 82 game schedule we are pretty damn consistent in terms of points outside of 2014.

I mean 82 games too big of a sample size right? Let's just look at 6 games to judge whether we decline or not.