The Jim Benning & Management Megathread Part III

[nameless1]

Is it not obvious that Benning sees Sbisa as an good asset? He gave him a contract to become a top 4 defenseman. Given his age, I don't doubt that he was seen as more valuable than many of the prospects mentioned.

Before the contract I reluctantly accepted that we likely had to take on a cap hit (likely Sbisa or Allen) but after the contract it completely changes my perception of the Kesler trade.

I agree with you.
Just to clarify...
I disliked Sbisa as a player even before he even got here...
So I hated that trade when it happened.
However...
I saw him as nothing more than a salary dump...
And I begrudgingly accepted the reality.
When he said that he specifically targeted Sbisa...
I passed it off as GM speak.

When the contract extension for Sbisa came...
It became clear that he actually believed what he said back then...
And he really does not know how to evaluate talent.
Thus...
He lost all benefit of the doubt...
And I no longer have faith in the guy.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

So wierd how Benning just has to take what hes offered. So wierd.

 

[nameless1]

So wierd how Benning just has to take what hes offered. So wierd.

The equivalent of a mic drop.
Well done.

 

[arttk]

I agree with you.
Just to clarify...
I disliked Sbisa as a player even before he even got here...
So I hated that trade when it happened.
However...
I saw him as nothing more than a salary dump...
And I begrudgingly accepted the reality.
When he said that he specifically targeted Sbisa...
I passed it off as GM speak.

When the contract extension for Sbisa came...
It became clear that he actually believed what he said back then...
And he really does not know how to evaluate talent.
Thus...
He lost all benefit of the doubt...
And I no longer have faith in the guy.

Everyone saw him as a salary dump, that's why everyone was so shocked when he was signed to that god awful extension.

I think the management knew there would be backlash hence they announced it right after we made he playoffs.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Hey look. More assuming. Just because Benning didn't get what YOU thought Lack was worth, does not mean he didn't negotiate.

Hey look. More misinterpreting what is said.

 

[Wilch]

Hey look. More assuming. Just because Benning didn't get what YOU thought Lack was worth, does not mean he didn't negotiate.

He did negotiate, he just did it poorly.

 

[Upoil]

There was another GM stopping him from getting better value. Unless you're assuming he actively got worse value on purpose. Then I honestly don't know what else to say to you.



Yea we'd be in horrible shape and for sure would have missed the playoffs this year. You can't trade away your #2 centre and not get something to replace him. We needed to take players back.

Why? Worse case scenario is we don't take back a #2 center?

We lose Bonino's 39 points.
Miss the playoffs.
Draft higher.
Have additional items in the cupboard.
Don't have to be embarrassed by WD against Calgary.

Doesn't sound much worse than what we actually experienced.

 

[ahmon]

Why? Worse case scenario is we don't take back a #2 center?

We lose Bonino's 39 points.
Miss the playoffs.
Draft higher.
Have additional items in the cupboard.
Don't have to be embarrassed by WD against Calgary.

Doesn't sound much worse than what we actually experienced.

but apparently we can't do that, according to posters here, it would create a losing environment and ruin our prospects.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

but apparently we can't do that, according to posters here, it would create a losing environment and ruin our prospects.

But apparently we didnt have prospects, according to posters here, just a stale aged core that needed to be taken out behind the shed.

 

[arttk]

but apparently we can't do that, according to posters here, it would create a losing environment and ruin our prospects.

I think there is a difference between creating a competitive environment vs creating a tanking environment.
Hey if tanking, incompetence and failure is what you connect with, whatever floats your boat.

 

[nameless1]

Everyone saw him as a salary dump, that's why everyone was so shocked when he was signed to that god awful extension.

At the time...
There are some people that just look at Sbisa's age...
And think he is a core piece.
It is actually not clear that he is a salary dump.

I only think that...
Because I am very familiar with Sbisa's play...
As I have watched him for over 7 years.

I think the management knew there would be backlash hence they announced it right after we made he playoffs.

Yeah...
Then why do it?

That is just arrogant...
To do something that will be universally panned.
It is also sneaky...
To plan it around good news.

Sure...
Fans do not run the team...
And Benning might believe that it is the best move...
But it is still perfectly fine if the signing was announced months later...
Just before free agency.
Haters will still hate...
But at least no one will question the timing.
He will also has more excuse for the big extension...
Since stupid deals are abound during free agency.

Honestly...
I think Benning really believe that both Sbisa and Dorsett will have big playoffs...
And they will only get more expensive afterwards.
That simply shows utter incompetence...
Because players like Dorsett and Sbisa are usually eaten alive during the playoffs...
As teams play tighter...
And the best players play more minutes.

(Edit:
Of course...
That is not what happens in Willie-land...
But other teams do that.
That is why Keith plays more than 30 minutes a game.
)

 

[ahmon]

I think there is a difference between creating a competitive environment vs creating a tanking environment.
Hey if tanking, incompetence and failure is what you connect with, whatever floats your boat.

again never answering the main point but changing the argument. We never once talked about tanking.

lol.

 

[Upoil]

but apparently we can't do that, according to posters here, it would create a losing environment and ruin our prospects.

Missing the playoffs is creating a losing environment? Thank goodness we had a winning environment last year!

I hope we can have one again this year. Guess we have to wait till the end of the season to find out!

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

At the time...
There are some people that just look at Sbisa's age...
And think he is a core piece.
It is actually not clear that he is a salary dump.

I only think that...
Because I am very familiar with Sbisa's play...
As I have watched him for over 7 years.



Yeah...
Then why do it?

That is just arrogant...
To do something that will be universally panned.
It is also sneaky...
To plan it around good news.

Sure...
Fans do not run the team...
And Benning might believe that it is the best move...
But it is still perfectly fine if the signing was announced months later...
Just before free agency.
Haters will still hate...
But at least no one will question the timing.
He will also has more excuse for the big extension...
Since stupid deals are abound during free agency.

Honestly...
I think Benning really believe that both Sbisa and Dorsett will have big playoffs...
And they will only get more expensive afterwards.
That simply shows utter incompetence...
Because players like Dorsett and Sbisa are usually eaten alive during the playoffs...
As teams play tighter...
And the best players play more minutes.

Best players play more minutes?

Not.in this Dejardin-topia we live in...

 

[nameless1]

Best players play more minutes?

Not.in this Dejardin-topia we live in...

I was thinking about other teams.
I should have been clearer.

 

[Verviticus]

There was another GM stopping him from getting better value. Unless you're assuming he actively got worse value on purpose. Then I honestly don't know what else to say to you.

you could read what he said and then you wouldn't have to assume anything. he got bad value because benning is bad at evaluating players, and actively asked for players that no good evaluator would like

 

[arttk]

again never answering the main point but changing the argument. We never once talked about tanking.

lol.

ok so you don't care for creating the most competitive environment or creating a tanking environment. Ok got it, so you want to create a middling environment? I guess just ok is good for you then right?

 

[ahmon]

ok so you don't care for creating the most competitive environment or creating a tanking environment. Ok got it, so you want to create a middling environment? I guess just ok is good for you then right?

Again just all over the place. focus.

Of course you want to create the most competitive environment, but you must consider the positioning of the team.

If the team has the pieces to contend of course you want to win.

If the team is so far from contending like the canucks last year. Do you just want to creep into the playoffs and lose in the first round, or actually draft higher and get a higher draft pick?

You keep suggesting that a losing environment, ie if the canucks miss the playoffs would have this great effect on ruining the prospects. I don't share that view.

That was what we were debating.

Of course now you will move the goalposts again..

 

[me2]

Why? Worse case scenario is we don't take back a #2 center?

We lose Bonino's 39 points.
Miss the playoffs.
Draft higher.
Have additional items in the cupboard.
Don't have to be embarrassed by WD against Calgary.

Doesn't sound much worse than what we actually experienced.

Probably would have gotten 39 points out of Santorelli. No need to miss the 1234 playoff spectacular.

 

[nameless1]

ok so you don't care for creating the most competitive environment or creating a tanking environment. Ok got it, so you want to create a middling environment? I guess just ok is good for you then right?

To be fair...
A middling environment is basically the state the Canucks is in these days.
What is the difference between missing the playoffs as the ninth or tenth seed...
Or making the playoffs...
But get embarrassed against a team eaten alive in the very next round?

I just think most of us realize that a team cannot have it both ways.
It is either a tank...
Or go for it.
Sure...
Most retool advocates will point to San Jose...
But Wilson just delayed the inevitable...
As that team is basically in the same shape as the Canucks.

 

[nameless1]

Probably would have gotten 39 points out of Santorelli. No need to miss the 1234 playoff spectacular.

At the very least...
We get a high pick for him.
With Benning...
It may only be a third rounder...
But that is still better than nothing.

 

[Wilch]

At the very least...
We get a high pick for Santorelli.
With Benning...
It may only be a third rounder...
But that is still better than nothing.

We either added a 5th to Santo for a cap dump off a poor year or sign him a $7 million, 5 year extension off a good year.

 

[me2]

There was another GM stopping him from getting better value. Unless you're assuming he actively got worse value on purpose. Then I honestly don't know what else to say to you.

There is "another GM" in every trade. Not every trade ends in a one sided butt kicking.

we'd be in horrible shape and for sure would have missed the playoffs this year. You can't trade away your #2 centre and not get something to replace him. We needed to take players back.

39 points, so hard to replace.....

 

[nameless1]

We either added a 5th to Santo for a cap dump off a poor year or sign him a $7 million, 5 year extension off a good year.

Right...
That too.


Good ol' Benning.
At this point...
I can only hope that he is the smartest man on earth...
And his "plan" is the blueprint for all future retools.

 

[arttk]

Again just all over the place. focus.

Of course you want to create the most competitive environment, but you must consider the positioning of the team.

If the team has the pieces to contend of course you want to win.

If the team is so far from contending like the canucks last year. Do you just want to creep into the playoffs and lose in the first round, or actually draft higher and get a higher draft pick?

You keep suggesting that a losing environment, ie if the canucks miss the playoffs would have this great effect on ruining the prospects. I don't share that view.

That was what we were debating.

Of course now you will move the goalposts again..

Lol, rich considering you are the one picking points and ignoring 90% of what I post. Remember that Kassian discussion?

Like I said if you have the chance to creat the most competitive team you do it.
I think there is a point where you are so hopeless you have to rebuil. But until you hit they point, you try you best and build the best team.

I can't get behind he mindset where you think, oh we can't win the SC? Let's just fold and lose.

And yes I think it damaging for our prospects to bring them into an environment that is purposely built to lose.