The Jim Benning and Management Megathread - A step back towards the playoffs

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Ho Borvat

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They don't have to take the "high road" at the expense of the team. And playing hardball isn't necessarily taking the "low road". You can have a disagreement with a player and have it not be contentious.

Sedin Sedin Kassian
Burrows Kesler Vrbata
Virtanen Horvat Hansen
Dorsett Richardson Higgins

Its a moot point now, but with a top-12 like that I have a hard time imagining Kesler having issues playing here. Kesler also would have been a great mentor for someone like Horvat as well.

Even though Kesler demanded a trade, you have to remember it was coming at a time where the organization was in shambles. Torts had prettu much ruined this team, and the GM was fired.

Let Kes know you'll try and trade him if you can find a deal, but get him to hang tight and try a new coach/linemates etc.
 

Bourne Endeavor

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Sedin Sedin Kassian
Burrows Kesler Vrbata
Virtanen Horvat Hansen
Dorsett Richardson Higgins

Its a moot point now, but with a top-12 like that I have a hard time imagining Kesler having issues playing here. Kesler also would have been a great mentor for someone like Horvat as well.

Even though Kesler demanded a trade, you have to remember it was coming at a time where the organization was in shambles. Torts had prettu much ruined this team, and the GM was fired.

Let Kes know you'll try and trade him if you can find a deal, but get him to hang tight and try a new coach/linemates etc.

Benning did claim to try and convince Kesler to stay, though we've seen how he negotiates. Personally, I would have tried selling Kes on getting to play with Vrbata/Iginla; pump his ego a bit.
 

Ryp37

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At the end of the day Jimbo has neither improved the current team, nor improved the teams future. That's all it boils down too, which is unacceptable for a team in this position.
 
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NoRaise4Brackett

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At the end of the day Jimbo has neither improved the current team, nor improved the teams future. That's all it boils down too, which is unacceptable for a team in this position.

You really don't know that. They may surprise, kind of like last year. Vey/Sbisa may improve, Baertschi might be the real deal, Horvat certainly responded well and is a huge piece of the future, Kenins did well, Virtanen might become a star, the team bounced back from a terrible season (Benning had a hand in that), you don't know how his draft picks or the ones he inherited, will develop under Benning's watch...

I'm not saying Benning is awesome or perfect - I'm not even saying he is good, but you are writing things off that need a lot more than one season to guage.

I guess I am just keeping an open mind. Where I see If's or Maybe's, you seem to see only Not's. Time will tell...
 
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Pip

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GMs have to take the high road and put what's best for the team first. In this case, Benning though healing the dressing room and ditching the cancer was an important part of the equation.

The most important thing for the team is for Benning to get some building blocks from the Kesler deal and he failed to do so unless McCann pans out as a solid top 6er.
 

Ryp37

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You really don't know that. They may surprise, kind of like last year. Vey/Sbisa may improve, Baertschi might be the real deal, Horvat certainly responded well and is a huge piece of the future, Kenins did well, Virtanen might become a star, the team bounced back from a terrible season (Benning had a hand in that), you don't know how his draft picks or the ones he inherited, will develop under Benning's watch...

I'm not saying Benning is awesome or perfect - I'm not even saying he is good, but you are writing things off that need a lot more than one season to guage.

I guess I am just keeping an open mind. Where I see If's or Maybe's, you seem to see only Not's. Time will tell...

Your right they may surprise, a team with the Sedins/Edler/Tanev and a steady goalie can always do some damage

But almost any other way you look at it other than "may surprise" doesn't look good
 

JuniorNelson

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The problems began with Kesler when the twins signed their new deal. This doomed Kesler to playing behind them for his entire career. He made thinly veiled reference to it in his departure presser. He said the team wouldn't be competitive for four more years.

Kesler waited to see what direction the team was going and saw a sinking ship. Changing Captains doesn't matter when you are already on an intercept course with the iceberg. Once Benning said he was keeping the Sedins, Kesler was done here. This is unavoidable for Benning, who scrambled to get immediate value in the return. This allowed the Canucks to be mildly successful despite the departure of key piece Kesler.

Rather than let the slowing Sedins roast in the uncomfortable first line position Benning found a coach that rolls lines. This allows the Sedin line to blend into the line-up. Some learned observers regarded the Canucks as a team with three third lines last season. This is very different from being a one line team with fading principals.

This coming season has some bright spots. The team is no worse on paper than last season's. There are major question marks and lots of potential fails but this was true last season, too. Let the team play!
 

NoRaise4Brackett

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The most important thing for the team is for Benning to get some building blocks from the Kesler deal and he failed to do so unless McCann pans out as a solid top 6er.

Well Bonino was turned into Sutter, who we have for the next 6 years. While the jury is out on how effective he will be for us, and you may not feel he is a "building block" (contrary to what management feels), he may very well be a nice piece for us for a long time, which shouldn't be overlooked. Sbisa shouldn't be completely written off yet either as he is still relatively young for a dman - although I can understand if you do so:laugh: While I'm not holding my breath on Luca, it almost feels as though some here hate the guy as though they were personally footing the bill for his salary. Still too early to say for sure on the Kesler deal imo
 

Addison Rae

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Well Bonino was turned into Sutter, who we have for the next 6 years. While the jury is out on how effective he will be for us, and you may not feel he is a "building block" (contrary to what management feels), he may very well be a nice piece for us for a long time, which shouldn't be overlooked. Sbisa shouldn't be completely written off yet either as he is still relatively young for a dman - although I can understand if you do so:laugh: While I'm not holding my breath on Luca, it almost feels as though some here hate the guy as though they were personally footing the bill for his salary. Still too early to say for sure on the Kesler deal imo

The thing is you're banking on a player that's been in the pros for 7 years to magically, overnight go from an average 3rd liner to something valuable. The Canucks have given away 2 players of Sutter's caliber for free this summer, he is not a building block young piece, not even close.
 
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PetterssonSimp

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Well Bonino was turned into Sutter, who we have for the next 6 years. While the jury is out on how effective he will be for us, and you may not feel he is a "building block" (contrary to what management feels), he may very well be a nice piece for us for a long time, which shouldn't be overlooked. Sbisa shouldn't be completely written off yet either as he is still relatively young for a dman - although I can understand if you do so:laugh: While I'm not holding my breath on Luca, it almost feels as though some here hate the guy as though they were personally footing the bill for his salary. Still too early to say for sure on the Kesler deal imo

Saying "he may be good" about what is now the Now centre piece of the Kesler trade is not a good day way to evaluate trade value. Actually it's about one of the worst ways. It's Benning wrapped up in a single statement, buy high and sell low on all his deals so far.
Gustav Forsling is a Top 4 defender as a 19 year old in a professional league putting up 4 points in 3 games so far. His crowning acquisition piece is a #8 defender on another team so the Canucks can pay the most money ever to a player to never have eclipsed 40 points in his 7 year career playing over half of that on a team that regularly iced two of the Top 4 players in the world.
 

NoRaise4Brackett

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Saying "he may be good" about what is now the Now centre piece of the Kesler trade is not a good day way to evaluate trade value. Actually it's about one of the worst ways. It's Benning wrapped up in a single statement, buy high and sell low on all his deals so far.
Gustav Forsling is a Top 4 defender as a 19 year old in a professional league putting up 4 points in 3 games so far. His crowning acquisition piece is a #8 defender on another team so the Canucks can pay the most money ever to a player to never have eclipsed 40 points in his 7 year career playing over half of that on a team that regularly iced two of the Top 4 players in the world.

That isn't really what I'm saying. I for one, think the stats don't do him justice, and I'm optimistic he will be a much better fit for us than Bonino was going to be. Horvat was already showing signs of surpassing Bones, and I don't like the idea of Bonino as a shutdown guy, I think we did a good job of masking his deficiencies. I believe Sutter is 2x the playoff PKer, with a much better ability to cover more ice and play against the faster skilled teams. Neither of us know how things will go at this point. I am not evaluating the trade based on what may happen... I'm saying we have to wait and see before evaluating/coming to conclusions, especially when Sutter and McCann haven't even played a game in Van yet. With salaries going up, and Sutter bringing - in my eyes- a lot more than just points, I don't look too much into the worst ever, under 40 points contract. It will likely be the norm soon enough.

Are you calling Clendenning his crowning aquisition? come on.

Forsling may turn into something, and may not. He didn't look like much at all, beyond a PP specialist, but who knows. 3 games is, well, only 3 games...

Whichever though. I choose to be patient and see what happens.
 

WTG

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Bonino is not the perfect shutdown guy.

But let's not pretend that Sutter is either.


Bonino was a great value player. Absolutely a top 6 player while he was here and was our best shutdown centerman.

We could have maybe signed malhotra to a 1 year deal and force play cassels on his wing to help cassels become a malhotra guy. Idk there must be better ways of acquiring shutdown centerman then overpaying for one that isn't really good.
 

Ainec

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We saw JB's evaluation of Sbisa's season with that contract

I'm scared of what will happen with Bartkowski especially if he doubles his goal production.

It's really frightening that the biggest selling point before and directly after his hire is his eye for talent. Haha. kill me
 

sting101

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At the end of the day Jimbo has neither improved the current team, nor improved the teams future. That's all it boils down too, which is unacceptable for a team in this position.

24th to 7th. Current 1st year.
Vrbata,Miller,Bonino

Future:
Baertschi,Sutter,Virtanen,McCann,Boeser,Demko,Vey,Pedan,Brisebois.

What position are we currently? How would you describe this team?
 
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sting101

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That isn't really what I'm saying. I for one, think the stats don't do him justice, and I'm optimistic he will be a much better fit for us than Bonino was going to be. Horvat was already showing signs of surpassing Bones, and I don't like the idea of Bonino as a shutdown guy, I think we did a good job of masking his deficiencies. I believe Sutter is 2x the playoff PKer, with a much better ability to cover more ice and play against the faster skilled teams. Neither of us know how things will go at this point. I am not evaluating the trade based on what may happen... I'm saying we have to wait and see before evaluating/coming to conclusions, especially when Sutter and McCann haven't even played a game in Van yet. With salaries going up, and Sutter bringing - in my eyes- a lot more than just points, I don't look too much into the worst ever, under 40 points contract. It will likely be the norm soon enough.

Are you calling Clendenning his crowning aquisition? come on.

Forsling may turn into something, and may not. He didn't look like much at all, beyond a PP specialist, but who knows. 3 games is, well, only 3 games...

Whichever though. I choose to be patient and see what happens.
Well said. I share your sentiments.
 

sting101

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Um, this is going to haunt you for a long, long time.

Besides, how come you're pretending that if we got Perrault and Vatanenn we'd suddenly lose Subban? Another case of making up a position to defend the indefensible.
We'll see.

Perreault was such a big player for the Ducks they elected to pass on re signing him.

David Desharnais a similar player is consistently in trade rumors. But his value stinks because every top center in the league wants to play against him. Fact is most of these types are signed as free agents almost never traded for. Their production grossly exceeds value.....and there's a reason for it.

I like watching little skilled players but coaches hate them. I tried finding some similar players who have been traded for like Perreault but the fact is there are none.

I make up a position just like you all make up what we should have gotten for Kesler. A futures deal wasn't in the cards....ownership didn't want it.....you all kill me because it's getting to be like an ex girlfriend stocker scenario. Benning blew it!!!! We should have gotten the 10th, Theodore, the 24th and Vatanen. I'm sure if he just kept asking Murray would have caved?

Kesler wanted out.....he wasn't going back into the room. He had full control of his movement. The make him sit scenario is just 20/20 hindsight garbage. We just emerged from a gong show goalie soap opera and you all think Benning should start with doing what his predecessor just got canned for.....FML

While you say we would have both players (Subban and Vatanen) it's entirely likely Subban never signs here because a 24 yr old in the exact same mould would be blocking his progression and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he had no future hear if that's the case. Do you remember what happened with Cody Hodgson and his top 6 quest and Sven Baertschi's case in Calgary.

I stand by my statement.......skilled smurfs are available every draft in rounds 3-7.
 

Canucker

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We'll see.

Perreault was such a big player for the Ducks they elected to pass on re signing him.

David Desharnais a similar player is consistently in trade rumors. But his value stinks because every top center in the league wants to play against him. Fact is most of these types are signed as free agents almost never traded for. Their production grossly exceeds value.....and there's a reason for it.

I like watching little skilled players but coaches hate them. I tried finding some similar players who have been traded for like Perreault but the fact is there are none.

I make up a position just like you all make up what we should have gotten for Kesler. A futures deal wasn't in the cards....ownership didn't want it.....you all kill me because it's getting to be like an ex girlfriend stocker scenario. Benning blew it!!!! We should have gotten the 10th, Theodore, the 24th and Vatanen. I'm sure if he just kept asking Murray would have caved?

Kesler wanted out.....he wasn't going back into the room. He had full control of his movement. The make him sit scenario is just 20/20 hindsight garbage. We just emerged from a gong show goalie soap opera and you all think Benning should start with doing what his predecessor just got canned for.....FML

While you say we would have both players (Subban and Vatanen) it's entirely likely Subban never signs here because a 24 yr old in the exact same mould would be blocking his progression and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he had no future hear if that's the case. Do you remember what happened with Cody Hodgson and his top 6 quest and Sven Baertschi's case in Calgary.

I stand by my statement.......skilled smurfs are available every draft in rounds 3-7.

He may have "wanted out" and he may have control over his destination but Benning had control of whether or not a deal was going to be made and there was no requirement of him to deal Kesler...no matter how much you snark otherwise. The mere fact you say that "he wasn't going back into the room" automatically gives Benning leverage. Now I do agree that ownership may have influenced what Benning pushed for (futures vs. now) but the return was poor any way you slice it.

Regarding Vatanen vs. Subban, you may not be able to keep both down the road, but both will be RFA's for enough time to be able to evaluate them, keep the one you like and trade the other. Pretty simple really.
 

Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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24th to 7th. Current 1st year.
Vrbata,Miller,Bonino

Future:
Baertschi,Sutter,Virtanen,McCann,Boeser,Demko,Vey,Pedan,Brisebois.

What position are we currently? How would you describe this team?

The team would have re bounded anyways a half season collapse due to Torts and injuries wasn't representive of this team

Only name worth mentioning on there is Baertschi and he's still a question mark

Making drafts picks isn't improving the future, it's doing what every team does.
 

hlrsr

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Subban wouldn't have signed if we had Vatanen? These reaches are getting ridiculous.

There must be a lot of prospects unwilling to sign with their teams if they all turn sour because there's a player similar to them in the system.
 

me2

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We'll see.

Perreault was such a big player for the Ducks they elected to pass on re signing him.

David Desharnais a similar player is consistently in trade rumors. But his value stinks because every top center in the league wants to play against him. Fact is most of these types are signed as free agents almost never traded for. Their production grossly exceeds value.....and there's a reason for it.

I like watching little skilled players but coaches hate them. I tried finding some similar players who have been traded for like Perreault but the fact is there are none.

I make up a position just like you all make up what we should have gotten for Kesler. A futures deal wasn't in the cards....ownership didn't want it.....you all kill me because it's getting to be like an ex girlfriend stocker scenario. Benning blew it!!!! We should have gotten the 10th, Theodore, the 24th and Vatanen. I'm sure if he just kept asking Murray would have caved?

Kesler wanted out.....he wasn't going back into the room. He had full control of his movement. The make him sit scenario is just 20/20 hindsight garbage. We just emerged from a gong show goalie soap opera and you all think Benning should start with doing what his predecessor just got canned for.....FML

While you say we would have both players (Subban and Vatanen) it's entirely likely Subban never signs here because a 24 yr old in the exact same mould would be blocking his progression and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he had no future hear if that's the case. Do you remember what happened with Cody Hodgson and his top 6 quest and Sven Baertschi's case in Calgary.

I stand by my statement.......skilled smurfs are available every draft in rounds 3-7.

Benning and management are 100% in sync, he get the players he wanted, Aquilini isn't forcing him to do anything.

He wanted now players in Sbisa and Bonino. He wants to complete.

He traded Bonino for another now player. He wants to complete.

He downgraded the regular season team in order to improve the playoff performance - his words. He wants to complete, he believes the team is stronger this year then last.

Etc.

Sutter for Bonino is fine ($ and ntc and extra assets aside) if you are competing now. Different players, different strengths and weaknesses, different roles. Sutter isn't really building for the future though, he is at his peak now, he turns 28 during the first year of his extension.

It you were looking for players to rebuild around you would go for younger players not UFA age players then try and get some u UFA support, maybe you get Sutter himself as a UFA if you really want him, certainly paid UFA $anyway, and have your cake and eat it. If not you have 3 or so years to find your guy so no rush.
 

Bourne Endeavor

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We'll see.

Perreault was such a big player for the Ducks they elected to pass on re signing him.

David Desharnais a similar player is consistently in trade rumors. But his value stinks because every top center in the league wants to play against him. Fact is most of these types are signed as free agents almost never traded for. Their production grossly exceeds value.....and there's a reason for it.

I like watching little skilled players but coaches hate them. I tried finding some similar players who have been traded for like Perreault but the fact is there are none.

I make up a position just like you all make up what we should have gotten for Kesler. A futures deal wasn't in the cards....ownership didn't want it.....you all kill me because it's getting to be like an ex girlfriend stocker scenario. Benning blew it!!!! We should have gotten the 10th, Theodore, the 24th and Vatanen. I'm sure if he just kept asking Murray would have caved?

Kesler wanted out.....he wasn't going back into the room. He had full control of his movement. The make him sit scenario is just 20/20 hindsight garbage. We just emerged from a gong show goalie soap opera and you all think Benning should start with doing what his predecessor just got canned for.....FML

While you say we would have both players (Subban and Vatanen) it's entirely likely Subban never signs here because a 24 yr old in the exact same mould would be blocking his progression and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he had no future hear if that's the case. Do you remember what happened with Cody Hodgson and his top 6 quest and Sven Baertschi's case in Calgary.

I stand by my statement.......skilled smurfs are available every draft in rounds 3-7.

The Ducks have an internal cap and chose to let Perreault go when he threatened arbitration. They didn’t want to risk a potential long term deal when they have youth ready to step in, and we’re already focused on getting Kesler – a superior player. We, on the other hand, could both afford Perreault, and utilize him as a stopgap, with the hope Horvat eventually overtakes him.

You really ought to stop evaluating players you know nothing about. Perreault put up respectable numbers in less games – on two different teams. Meanwhile, Desharnais struggles to produce when not lined up with a 40 goal scorer. The difference between them is quite noteworthy.

Seguin? Spezza? Both are skill oriented players, albeit on a tier far above Perreault. And those were just off the top of my head. A coach not liking them means we ought to question said coach’s qualifications, especially if he values an inferior player because of arbitrary nonsense. Case in point, if Willie insists on using Sutter on the second line all season despite Horvat outplaying him. My takeaway will be Willie doesn’t deserve to coach at the NHL level.

Nice of you to disregard context to build your strawman. Murray explicably stated at the prior deadline all his picks were available. I fail to see he would abruptly drop value from essentially an open market to “junk.” Furthermore, Anaheim considered Bonino a valued piece, thus us demanding him meant they weren’t going to add substantially more – a fair stance when you factor Bonino was coming off a breakout season, and had a fantastic contract.

This suggests Anaheim might well have preferred dealing Vatanen or Theodore on the basis they keep a cheap asset who just put up 22 goals for them. We insisted on Bonino, resulting in a package that did nothing to address our actual needs. The subsequent extension Sbisa received only further implies Benning wanted him all along. You don’t give 3.6M to a player you viewed as a cap dump, especially while he’s in the midst of a dreadful season.

The package I suggested fit both the mandate from ownership and building for the future.

Perreault = Roster player; replacement for Kesler
Vatanen = Roster player; future asset; much needed puck moving defenseman
McCann = Future asset

And finally, your perpetual aversion to “smurfs” is ridiculous, as is your scenario. Subban is not even a NHL player nor have we any indication he ever will become one. The fact you continuously cite this as an example for why acquiring Vatanen would be a bad idea, frankly, shows how little you know of the players in question. By the time Subban pushed his way into the roster, Bieksa would either have been traded or retired, therefore spotting a spot. If Corrado proved himself, we would find ourselves in a position of having three solid right side defenseman – a luxury few teams have. In what universe would this ever be considered bad?

Indeed. Although the ones available rarely go on to put up 37 points in 67 games in their rookie season, all at the age of twenty four, as defenseman. But, since he’s a smurf, we’ll just ignore that. Arbitrary assessments are much more important than proven talent!
 

Addison Rae

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Jun 2, 2009
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Yikes, people really don't know much about Mathieu Perrault, do they? He's an uptenth times better than Sutter at ice hockey. Managers make mistakes, you can't say play A is worthless because a management team chose player B over them. There's so incompetent managers out there, one even picked Luca Sbisa over Jason Garrison smh.
 
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