Prospect Info: The Infantile 2020 Draft Thread

[Oilhawks]

Sorry, I had missed your point. It was fairly widely reported the week going into the draft that Broberg was surging and could go top ten. Vancouver also allegedly had the player on their radar. Here's a decent blog piece talking the good and bad of a draft eligible on a late rise: Should the Canucks draft Philip Broberg at the 2019 NHL Entry Draft?

We know it just takes one team to love a player, believe in his upside, and the nuts to draft him supposedly higher than he should have gone. Columbus with Dubois over Puljujarvi one painful example. Broberg had a lot of buzz the week of the draft and word circulated top ten teams were prepared to bet on his potential. Implementing his leadership approach and a solid history with Swedish players it wasn't over the top for Holland to like the immense toolkit of Broberg. And no rush to foolishly fast track players like the failures of the past Holland bet on upside at a critical position.

Regarding TSN Preliminary Rankings, it is a baseline for prospects which have been on the radar for years playing on national development teams, playing elite junior leagues and both national and international tournaments. These kids just don't appear at 17 although the order ebs and flows and new talent emerges as a growth cycle kicks in or other considerations. The draft year plays out under massive scrutiny and lists adjust accordingly.

TSN is the go-to with Mackenzie aggregating professional scouts into his lists throughout the season and Button, who has been an NHL scout, scouting director and general managers actually sees these kids and has the network to gleam more than we can via foggy Youtube clips. It's easy for us to argue Button's choices but he's a second generation NHL executive whose put the miles on as a scout on up. Costantino doing national junior broadcasts also has direct eyes on prospects and the resources of a major network and NHL rights holder to garner intel about draft prospects. These are the go to for draft prospect intel with access to pro scouts making hard decisions on prospective millionaire teenagers. It's fun as hell to create our draft lists, follow players and think we can assess talent with such minimal information at our disposal but along with hobbyist publications good to take it with a grain of salt.

Only takes one team to like a player. Hard to hit on 17 year old kids as we've seen with the Oilers spotty draft record.

Amazing post, wish I could like this

 

[Zaddy]

So what happens if Zegras busts, and Broberg is a 20 minute a night top 4 dman? Zegras is way overrated, his fancy dangles at low levels won't work in the NHL and will result in a ton of turnovers.

Lol, that's just wrong. Zegras isn't a guy who stickhandles for stickhandling sake, he does it to make plays. Ask any scout worth their salt about how important deception is for a skilled player to make the transition to the NHL. Zegras has that in spades. He's going to be a nightmare for NHLers to figure out how to defend against once he settles in. You can't teach his skill, vision and creativity. You look at a guy like Elias Pettersson who play a similar style and the success he's had. Mathew Barzal comes to mind as well. Obviously Zegras doesn't have Pettersson's shot or Barzal's skating but his vision and playmaking is arguably better. He just makes a ton of plays and as long as he has skilled linemates who can finish those plays he's going to put up a lot of points.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

The QMJHL preseason started yesterday. Lapierre (2 goals and 2 assists) and Mercer (1 goal and 2 assists) led the way for a 6-1 Chicoutimi win.

 

[OiledUp]

Lol, that's just wrong. Zegras isn't a guy who stickhandles for stickhandling sake, he does it to make plays. Ask any scout worth their salt about how important deception is for a skilled player to make the transition to the NHL. Zegras has that in spades. He's going to be a nightmare for NHLers to figure out how to defend against once he settles in. You can't teach his skill, vision and creativity. You look at a guy like Elias Pettersson who play a similar style and the success he's had. Mathew Barzal comes to mind as well. Obviously Zegras doesn't have Pettersson's shot or Barzal's skating but his vision and playmaking is arguably better. He just makes a ton of plays and as long as he has skilled linemates who can finish those plays he's going to put up a lot of points.

My issue with Zegras is that he does a lot of his stuff more or less standing still or gliding, which works at lesser levels but tends to be a problem in pro leagues. He seems to have pretty solid hockey IQ so he could very well adapt when he needs to but I do think he'll need to adapt in that regard if he's to be truly efficient in the NHL.

Elias Pettersson had similar issues in junior, but quickly realized you have to move both your feet and hands to make plays even in Allsvenskan, now he's one of maybe 5-10 guys in the NHL who can quickly change direction with his skating while dangling in a completely different direction if you get what I mean, basically making seperate "dekes" with your hands and feet. If Zegras can add that element to his crazy good hands he'll be elite for sure.
And as you mention Pettersson has that elite shot which keeps defenders guessing, if you back off he'll just rip one top corner.

 

[Zaddy]

My issue with Zegras is that he does a lot of his stuff more or less standing still or gliding, which works at lesser levels but tends to be a problem in pro leagues. He seems to have pretty solid hockey IQ so he could very well adapt when he needs to but I do think he'll need to adapt in that regard if he's to be truly efficient in the NHL.

Elias Pettersson had similar issues in junior, but quickly realized you have to move both your feet and hands to make plays even in Allsvenskan, now he's one of maybe 5-10 guys in the NHL who can quickly change direction with his skating while dangling in a completely different direction if you get what I mean, basically making seperate "dekes" with your hands and feet. If Zegras can add that element to his crazy good hands he'll be elite for sure.
And as you mention Pettersson has that elite shot which keeps defenders guessing, if you back off he'll just rip one top corner.

I don't know. I've heard this criticism before but I'm not sure it's relevant or even applies to Zegras. I think he does move his feet quite a bit in the offensive zone and he does it masterfully to change the angle and open up passing lanes. I actually think it's one of his strengths. He's really good at drawing defenders to him, move them out of position and then find an open teammate with an unsuspecting backhand pass.

And even when he is static he is so deceptive and skilled that he can get pucks through. You don't see guys like Bäckström and Draisaitl move their feet that much either and it's not a problem for them. Obviously they're bigger than Zegras and can protect the puck better but if you have hands like these guys size doesn't really matter because no one can get the puck from you anyway.

I mean, seriously, look at this ridiculous assist at 1:43. That's not a guy that's standing still or gliding. That's not an anomaly either, in fact that's how he gets most of his points.



He's going to be an absolute treat to watch in the NHL.

 

[OiledUp]

I don't know. I've heard this criticism before but I'm not sure it's relevant or even applies to Zegras. I think he does move his feet quite a bit in the offensive zone and he does it masterfully to change the angle and open up passing lanes. I actually think it's one of his strengths. He's really good at drawing defenders to him, move them out of position and then find an open teammate with an unsuspecting backhand pass.

And even when he is static he is so deceptive and skilled that he can get pucks through. You don't see guys like Bäckström and Draisaitl move their feet that much either and it's not a problem for them. Obviously they're bigger than Zegras and can protect the puck better but if you have hands like these guys size doesn't really matter because no one can get the puck from you anyway.

I mean, seriously, look at this ridiculous assist at 1:43. That's not a guy that's standing still or gliding. That's not an anomaly either, in fact that's how he gets most of his points.



He's going to be an absolute treat to watch in the NHL.

I think that assist is fantastic and he does that quick turn around really well and often. Can't really complain about the execution or build up on that play, he’s using the speed from his early crossovers brilliantly. And I agree he changes his angles well but imo usually at much lower speeds than that play. We'll see. I'm not low on the player, I actually think he's one of the guys who might end up the best player of the draft if he can adapt his game, I just have some concerns regarding translation to the highest level. We still haven't seen if he can do the things he does against quality D and tge guys that can do his type if plays at the NHL level are usually really active with their skating and their quest for open ice, not just on occasion but all the time. But it's clear we view that particular part of his game differently which is fair enough, I'm by no means an expert and your write ups on prospects are much more advanced then my occasional rumblings...

I think it's hard to compare with a guy like Drai who actively moves into traffic to make plays and also is a top player in the league at protecting the puck. Drai is also a far more efficient player when he's moving his feet, certainly 5v5, he has stretches where I isn't and he’s certainly a lesser player then.

Bäckström isn't dynamic but he’s constantly switching position on the ice and finding space, he doesn't rely on carrying the puck as much either and like Drai is very strong protecting it. Don’t really see Zegras being able to play that type of game.

 

[Zaddy]

I think that assist is fantastic and he does that quick turn around really well and often. Can't really complain about the execution or build up on that play, he’s using the speed from his early crossovers brilliantly. And I agree he changes his angles well but imo usually at much lower speeds than that play. We'll see. I'm not low on the player, I actually think he's one of the guys who might end up the best player of the draft if he can adapt his game, I just have some concerns regarding translation to the highest level. We still haven't seen if he can do the things he does against quality D and tge guys that can do his type if plays at the NHL level are usually really active with their skating and their quest for open ice, not just on occasion but all the time. But it's clear we view that particular part of his game differently which is fair enough, I'm by no means an expert and your write ups on prospects are much more advanced then my occasional rumblings...

I think it's hard to compare with a guy like Drai who actively moves into traffic to make plays and also is a top player in the league at protecting the puck. Drai is also a far more efficient player when he's moving his feet, certainly 5v5, he has stretches where I isn't and he’s certainly a lesser player then.

Bäckström isn't dynamic but he’s constantly switching position on the ice and finding space, he doesn't rely on carrying the puck as much either and like Drai is very strong protecting it. Don’t really see Zegras being able to play that type of game.

I can agree that he does it at lower speeds normally but he still moves his feet enough. He doesn't need to zip around the zone like say Mathew Barzal. That style is even counter-productive sometimes. If we're gonna talk about someone who is very static I'd think of someone like Dylan Strome, a player I'm not a fan of at all. Zegras is much more active and dynamic than him. To be honest, I don't know if I've ever seen a player as deceptive as Zegras. I just don't see how NHLers are going to contain him. He can find his man from anywhere and in any way.

Here's another incredible assist if you look at 3:03. Like, who even does that?



And this is him as a rookie against NCAA level competition which is a big step up from juniors. He's going to make a lot of NHL defenders look absolutely silly. I really don't see why his game wouldn't translate. My main concern with him last year was his shot, but looking at highlights from this past season it looks much improved. It still needs to get better but it's really not that bad now. He's never going to be a big goalscorer but it's important for him to at least be a threat to keep people guessing.

 

[Zaddy]

Getting back on topic a little bit here. What are everyone's thoughts on Luke Evangelista? I only recently started digging in to him and I really like what I've seen. Can't really figure out why he isn't ranked higher. He seems to be the next largely unheralded guy coming out of London who is going to be a great player. That organization has something going for them. It's crazy, every year they have a guy who gets about a point-per-game in their draft year and then just has an incredible development from there on. Robert Thomas (and Alex Formenton to a lesser extent) in 2017, Liam Foudy in 2018 and Connor McMichael in 2019. I have a feeling Evangelista is the next one on that list. Really the only thing I don't like about him is that he's a winger and even though he's 5'11 he has a very slight build, but other than that no complaints really. I could be wrong but I feel like he's going to have a very strong season coming up.

Thoughts? Where do you guys have him ranked? @McDNicks17 @ConnorMcMullet @Llamamoto

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Stauffer hyping up Jarvis is encouraging. Also worth mentioning is that the Oilers have posted exactly one draft prospect profile on their website/twitter. That player? Seth Jarvis.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Getting back on topic a little bit here. What are everyone's thoughts on Luke Evangelista? I only recently started digging in to him and I really like what I've seen. Can't really figure out why he isn't ranked higher. He seems to be the next largely unheralded guy coming out of London who is going to be a great player. That organization has something going for them. It's crazy, every year they have a guy who gets about a point-per-game in their draft year and then just has an incredible development from there on. Robert Thomas (and Alex Formenton to a lesser extent) in 2017, Liam Foudy in 2018 and Connor McMichael in 2019. I have a feeling Evangelista is the next one on that list. Really the only thing I don't like about him is that he's a winger and even though he's 5'11 he has a very slight build, but other than that no complaints really. I could be wrong but I feel like he's going to have a very strong season coming up.

Thoughts? Where do you guys have him ranked? @McDNicks17 @ConnorMcMullet @Llamamoto

I'm a huge fan of Evangelista. He'll be one of the go-to guys next year on London and I think his production will explode. I really like his elusiveness and he's got an underrated 2-way game, and his size shouldn't hinder him at the next level. He's ranked just outside of the 1st on my list.

Overall I really like the OHL crop in terms of forwards in the early/mid rounds. Evangelista is just one of many OHL forwards I'm high on in that range. Others are:

• Evan Vierling — a personal favourite of mine. 2-way center with 34 pts in 28 gp after being traded to the Barrie Colts. Excellent vision and puck protection.

• Tyler Tullio — another favourite. Small buzzsaw winger with a laser of a wrist shot.

• Brandon Coe — I think he'd be ranked higher if he hadn't played on the worst team in the CHL. Winger with good size, an underrated set of mitts, and good playmaking ability.

• Martin Chromiak — I was pretty shocked to see him ranked so late on McKenzie's list. If he falls to our 3rd he could be a gem.

I've got back-to-back-to-back picks coming up relatively soon in the HFOil Mock Draft, gotta think I'll be going with at least one OHLer.

 

[Zaddy]

I forgot to mention that HockeyProspect have Evangelista at #21, which is much higher than anyone else but I can see why. I tend to trust them on OHL guys too considering they scout these guys from all the way back in their OHL draft years so they know these guys inside and out. So that's another encouraging sign to me. I have no idea where he'll go in the draft though but I wouldn't be surprised if he's at least an early 2nd rounder.

EDIT: Also, wow, Brendan Shanahan is his 2nd cousin apparently. Wonder if the Leafs nab him with their 2nd rounder.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

I forgot to mention that HockeyProspect have Evangelista at #21, which is much higher than anyone else but I can see why. I tend to trust them on OHL guys too considering they scout these guys from all the way back in their OHL draft years so they know these guys inside and out. So that's another encouraging sign to me. I have no idea where he'll go in the draft though but I wouldn't be surprised if he's at least an early 2nd rounder.

EDIT: Also, wow, Brendan Shanahan is his 2nd cousin apparently. Wonder if the Leafs nab him with their 2nd rounder.

Where do they have Evan Vierling? Pretty much every list I've seen has him lower than where I do.

 

[Zaddy]

Where do they have Evan Vierling? Pretty much every list I've seen has him lower than where I do.

#76. They seem to like his talent, just not his compete level.

Similar story with Chromiak who they have at #80.

They ranked both guys' compete level as a 4 on a 3-9 scale.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

I've been watching some more of the Chicago Steel and I really like Sam Colangelo. He plays a power game but I really like his vision and shot too. Brendan Brisson is obviously very talented as well, even though I still think he's ranked too high on some lists. The player that really stood out to me though was 6'5 2021 eligible Owen Power—he has shades of Victor Hedman in him. He's my favourite to go 1st overall next year alongside Brandt Clarke.

Daniil Gushchin is another USHL forward I really like.

 

[Zaddy]

I've been watching some more of the Chicago Steel and I really like Sam Colangelo. He plays a power game but I really like his vision and shot too. Brendan Brisson is obviously very talented as well, even though I still think he's ranked too high on some lists. The player that really stood out to me though was 6'5 2021 eligible Owen Power—he has shades of Victor Hedman in him. He's my favourite to go 1st overall next year alongside Brandt Clarke.

Daniil Gushchin is another USHL forward I really like.

I'm curious about that team actually. Who are the real drivers on the Steel? Because there were multiple players having great years there. First time eligibles like Brisson, Colangelo and Farrell but also overagers like De St. Phalle and Fontaine, and obviously next years hyped guy Owen Power. I've never watched that team except a little bit of footage on Brisson. What can you tell me about them?

Specifically I'm curious about Colangelo vs Farrell. Both are late 01's and had very similar point totals. Colangelo is 6'2 and scored almost as many goals as assists whereas Farrell is only 5'9 and seems to be primarily a playmaker. What are their skating like? Who is the better offensive player of the two? How do they compare to Brisson?

I'm a bit wary of Brisson actually. Seemed like he scored a lot of points on the PP and specifically with his one-timer, which while good I don't think is elite or something that will translate all that well to the NHL level and he's not a dynamic skater or a bigger guy either. I think he has huge bust potential and is very overrated in draft rankings.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

I'm curious about that team actually. Who are the real drivers on the Steel? Because there were multiple players having great years there. First time eligibles like Brisson, Colangelo and Farrell but also overagers like De St. Phalle and Fontaine, and obviously next years hyped guy Owen Power. I've never watched that team except a little bit of footage on Brisson. What can you tell me about them?

Specifically I'm curious about Colangelo vs Farrell. Both are late 01's and had very similar point totals. Colangelo is 6'2 and scored almost as many goals as assists whereas Farrell is only 5'9 and seems to be primarily a playmaker. What are their skating like? Who is the better offensive player of the two? How do they compare to Brisson?

I'm a bit wary of Brisson actually. Seemed like he scored a lot of points on the PP and specifically with his one-timer, which while good I don't think is elite or something that will translate all that well to the NHL level and he's not a dynamic skater or a bigger guy either. I think he has huge bust potential and is very overrated in draft rankings.

The Steel were just a great team through and through, maybe the best team in USHL history. The team was driven by those 6 players you mentioned, and while none of them were "passengers" per se, they probably all benefitted from playing on a historically good team. Owen Power does stand out from the rest though. The Chicago GM called him by far the best player on his team and I would agree with that assessment.

I like all three of Brisson, Colangelo, and Farell, but I also have reservations on each of them. With Brisson, it's what you mentioned. Great one-timer and he's a good passer but I question how his game will translate. I have Colangelo ranked very close to Brendan Brisson and I don't understand why most have a fair gap between the two. Colangelo's production was every bit as good as Brisson's, maybe better—he had more even strength points and more goals despite Brisson being known for his goal-scoring. He's bigger and stronger than Brisson as well. His skating is fine. I don't see it as much of a strength but I know others do. My reservation with Colangelo is, as with Brisson, I don't know how his style of play will translate. He is willing to drive to the net, which I like, but he plays a lot on the perimeter as well and I don't know if he's skilled enough to do that in the NHL. Still a good bet in the 2nd round in my opinion and a similar level player to Brisson.

In the USHL, Farrell is a similar level player to Brisson and Colangelo, but as a prospect, he's a step down IMO. He's just 5'9 and not too dynamic a skater. Good vision and reads the play well but overall I just don't think he has enough skill to cut it in the NHL with his lack of size.

When it comes to small USHL forwards, Gushchin is the guy that most intrigues me. He is incredibly skilled and slippery but plays with grit as well.

 

[McDNicks17]

Getting back on topic a little bit here. What are everyone's thoughts on Luke Evangelista? I only recently started digging in to him and I really like what I've seen. Can't really figure out why he isn't ranked higher. He seems to be the next largely unheralded guy coming out of London who is going to be a great player. That organization has something going for them. It's crazy, every year they have a guy who gets about a point-per-game in their draft year and then just has an incredible development from there on. Robert Thomas (and Alex Formenton to a lesser extent) in 2017, Liam Foudy in 2018 and Connor McMichael in 2019. I have a feeling Evangelista is the next one on that list. Really the only thing I don't like about him is that he's a winger and even though he's 5'11 he has a very slight build, but other than that no complaints really. I could be wrong but I feel like he's going to have a very strong season coming up.

Thoughts? Where do you guys have him ranked? @McDNicks17 @ConnorMcMullet @Llamamoto

I'm a big fan. I probably have him somewhere in the middle of the second right now.

He might not see as a big of a jump as past Knights since he actually saw some time with McMichael this year, but I agree. He's going to have a big year next year. He'll finally get a chance to play on the PP and I think he'll be really good there.

There's a handful of super smart, smaller, not-so-great skaters in the OHL that I like this year. Evangelista, Vierling, Ethan Cardwell and, to a lesser extent, Logan Morrison. I could see all these guys slipping because they aren't plus skaters. Foerster kind of fits into there too. I'd bet on them gaining a step and pretty much bumping their value up an entire round or two.

 

[belair]

Can Evan Vierling score goals at the next level?

 

[McDNicks17]

Can Evan Vierling score goals at the next level?

He's smart and goes to the net, so I'm sure he'll pot a few. He won't be scoring from range, but that isn't his game.

One of the better playmaking centers in the draft, IMO.

 

[belair]

He's smart and goes to the net, so I'm sure he'll pot a few. He won't be scoring from range, but that isn't his game.

One of the better playmaking centers in the draft, IMO.

Comparing him to a guy like Ryan McLeod makes sense considering he wasn't really known for the goal scoring at that level either. McLeod brings size and speed to the table also though, so there's a chance he brings more to the table at the next level.

Vierling worries me simply due to the fact that the high-end ability never showed after being selected by Flint at 2.

 

[McDNicks17]

Comparing him to a guy like Ryan McLeod makes sense considering he wasn't really known for the goal scoring at that level either. McLeod brings size and speed to the table also though, so there's a chance he brings more to the table at the next level.

Vierling worries me simply due to the fact that the high-end ability never showed after being selected by Flint at 2.

He did alright last year on one of the worst OHL teams in a long time.

I don't think his start with Flint this year was all that bad either. He was playing behind quite a few good centers. Finally got an opportunity with Barrie.

 

[Zaddy]

Man, EliteProspects draft coverage is really bad. I don't know where they found their 'scouts' but they're a pretty awful bunch.

It's been a theme for a while now but this piece comparing Peterka and Reichel sealed the deal for me.

John-Jason Peterka vs. Lukas Reichel — Which German 2020 NHL...

They finish the article with these two paragraphs:

"The difference between Peterka’s scoring upside and Reichel’s playmaking upside, to me, is significant. And I think there’s a better chance that Peterka figures out how to play at multiple speeds and use his teammates better than Reichel reinvents his off-puck offensive game"

"Provided both make the NHL, the difference between the two probably won’t be significant; neither will be play-driving top-six forwards. But valuable third-liners? That’s possible"

Seldom have I seen such a bad take. They should be ashamed.

 

[McDNicks17]

Emil Andrae with six points (1g, 5a) in two preseason games now.

Feeling pretty good about getting him at the end of the second in our mock on here.

I definitely wouldn't mind him with a second if Holland trades down. Tons of skill. He's feisty and strong enough to overcome the lack of size, IMO.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Man, EliteProspects draft coverage is really bad. I don't know where they found their 'scouts' but they're a pretty awful bunch.

It's been a theme for a while now but this piece comparing Peterka and Reichel sealed the deal for me.

John-Jason Peterka vs. Lukas Reichel — Which German 2020 NHL...

They finish the article with these two paragraphs:

"The difference between Peterka’s scoring upside and Reichel’s playmaking upside, to me, is significant. And I think there’s a better chance that Peterka figures out how to play at multiple speeds and use his teammates better than Reichel reinvents his off-puck offensive game"

"Provided both make the NHL, the difference between the two probably won’t be significant; neither will be play-driving top-six forwards. But valuable third-liners? That’s possible"

Seldom have I seen such a bad take. They should be ashamed.

I mean, it wouldn't be the first time a guy ranked a bunch later ends up as one of the better guys in the draft

 

[BarDownBobo]

Emil Andrae with six points (1g, 5a) in two preseason games now.

Feeling pretty good about getting him at the end of the second in our mock on here.

I definitely wouldn't mind him with a second if Holland trades down. Tons of skill. He's feisty and strong enough to overcome the lack of size, IMO.

I couldn’t believe how far he slid in our mock, he’s an early/mid second to me. The fact that teams are gonna see a month plus of him playing pro before the draft here is only gonna help that as well. You got great value there.