The Inevitable tank thread. 1 is the loneliest number

[Gil Gunderson]

This is why I hope we win the Lottery and Colorado gets the first overall. As fans we don't deserve it but management does and to be remembered as up there as the worst in league history.

Yeah it’ll kinda be bittersweet. Melnyk and Dorion should feel absolutely no sense of accomplishment.

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

Being terrible and failing to retain your players is a pretty long way from a 'proper tear down and rebuild'

Okay how about the one time we know we’re gonna be terrible and in last place then

 

[branch]

How come Dorion didn't know this?

He did know this, he just has a unique and uncanny ability for completely missing the mark on how he evaluates his team. And thus, here we are...

 

[EdAVSfan]

I'm sure Dorion knew this.

He just thought this was a good team who would be picking around 20th, and then he can't give up a #4 overall pick because of the PR, especially with a name like Tkachuk there and a need to win back fans. Giving up a 4th overall after last season would have been a nightmare. He just choose to push the nightmare a year down the road rather than rip the band-aid off last year.

Dorion did say that the only guy in this years draft they ranked over Tkachuk was Hughes, not that I believe that, and certainly don't agree with it.

Imo, Dorion is definitely one of the better talent evaluators when it comes to the draft.

I know he’s just saying it to appease the fans. But that’s a very odd statement to make when he’s judging without including the prospects draft year. There could be significant movement from players, up or down.

 

[Deku]

I'm sure Dorion knew this.

He just thought this was a good team who would be picking around 20th, and then he can't give up a #4 overall pick because of the PR, especially with a name like Tkachuk there and a need to win back fans. Giving up a 4th overall after last season would have been a nightmare. He just choose to push the nightmare a year down the road rather than rip the band-aid off last year.

Dorion did say that the only guy in this years draft they ranked over Tkachuk was Hughes, not that I believe that, and certainly don't agree with it.

I would've been OK with kicking the can down the road another year if they had actually tried to improve the team this season. TBH I don't think we would've gotten much worse of a return for EK at the upcoming trade deadline anyway.

 

[BondraTime]

Imo, Dorion is definitely one of the better talent evaluators when it comes to the draft.

I know he’s just saying it to appease the fans. But that’s a very odd statement to make when he’s judging without including the prospects draft year. There could be significant movement from players, up or down.

I agree on Dorion being a very astute guy in terms of junior aged guys, he is a great talent evaluate.

He is awful at making decisions regarding the NHL team and moves that accompany it (see the past 2.5 years.).

Of course he's going to sell the pick we kept, that is a given. He'd be saying the same thing about the guys in this draft if we were in a position to draft one of them.

I've been vocal for about a year now, well before we knew we had #4 overall, that I like this coming draft's top end (after Dahlin and Svechnikov) more than 2018's. I still feel that way. Top 5 pick is an absolute lay-up his year.

 

[IlTerrifico]

It's interesting to analyze this last place overall roster to see what is killing it.

At forward, for the top 6, the top 5 are arguably at least average in the league, and with time would be above average as Tkachuk and White continue to develop. Stone, Duchene, White, Tkachuk and Dzingel can score, and have a combined +/- of about 0, which should be a bit higher, but given defensive woes, 0 is pretty good.

The 6th forward is a problem, either Bobby Ryan who is spotty in the regular season but proved solid last playoffs (granted 2 seasons ago), or Boedker, whose low goal total and limited talent package make him a detrimental 2nd liner or overpaid, middling 3rd liner.

Pageau historically has been a quality 3rd liner, and the more motivated Zach Smith we are seeing this year also is value as a 3rd liner. Neither Tierney or Boedker round out the 3rd line with quality, but maybe a 2 for 1 trade for somebody solid here and we have viability. Those two playing regularly this year has hurt, with a combined -27 to show for it, they must go.

The 4th line has been a big problem, as Paajarvi earned his pay last year, but in his UFA year has not competed. Pyatt hit the wall. Nick Paul now looks like he has figured it out, so 2 more quality guys are needed here, in relatively cheap roles, and could even be Zach Smith + someone else when Formenton/Batherson move into higher lines next year.

Forwards, overall, are playoff calibre with retention, and if Formenton/Batherson are the real deal, will be very good if all return next year.

Defense is another issue BUT imagine if you simply spent some money here, and added a Jacob Trouba while letting Ceci walk. Ceci and Lajoie are the main drivers of minus defensive play on this team, and I believe neither has the jam to be part of a contender. Lajoie could develop an offensive upside, but he brings down the grit factor, so he might prove to be a trading chip.

Pairs under this scenario could be:

Chabot-Trouba super solid top 2
Jaros-Demelo both a bit iffy in top 4, but JBD is on the way too, could drop Trouba to here for balance
Harpur-Boro not frills, but keeps opponents on their toes, and could sub in others where opponent speed is an issue

The combined 5 current Sens defensemen in this picture are only -6 this year, and Jaros and Harpur should get better.

Goalies: 2 of Hogberg, Gustafsson, Condon, Nilsson

might need an upgrade, but Hogberg has been reasonable so far.


So, by replacing Ceci with Trouba, and moving out 6 of the 8 players who are -10 or worse in the current year, proving they can't really do their jobs, I see a quality team emerging with an investment of about $3M per year (Trouba for Ceci) + increases to Stone, Duchene and Dzingel. Which would be easily covered by more butts in the seats over the course of a competitive season. And no 4 seasons of sucking waiting to get top draft picks with an empty arena, and I haven't factored in some of the question mark guys like Brown and Norris.

 

[Stylizer1]

How will this rebuild work without a 1st round lottery pick? We can only hope for a tank job next season to at least try for a superstar. I don't trust our scouts to find a diamond in the rough again a la Karlsson.

 

[stempniaksen]

How will this rebuild work without a 1st round lottery pick? We can only hope for a tank job next season to at least try for a superstar. I don't trust our scouts to find a diamond in the rough again a la Karlsson.

They did with Chabot.

Scouting is just about the only thing fans can hang their hat on when it comes to this dumpster fire of an organization. (Although now that the team has essentially eliminated European scouting maybe this will no longer be a strength for us).

 

[hawthy]

I love how the one time we actually do a proper tear down and rebuild, we don’t even own our first round pick that year

I think a poster already beat me to this, but that is not what this is.

 

[NyQuil]

Ironically it appears as if the cosmos is out to punish Dorion and Melnyk for their arrogance in trying to raise the bar after trading the team's franchise player for scraps.

Firstly, I've gone on record repeatedly to say that the wheels fall off of teams that rely on rookies once the honeymoon Fall period wears off and more veteran-laden teams start to find their game.

I was expecting December and that's what we've got. We needed to bank points in the fall in order to suffer the inevitable correction later on.

At the same time, we had some surprising performances from Chabot, Tkachuk, Lajoie, White to go along with career performances from Duchene and Stone.

Of course, karma then reared its ugly head with Pageau, DeMelo, Tkachuk, Duchene, Chabot etc. etc. all facing injury at one time or another, hindering our chance to occupy a playoff spot early on when our enthusiasm was winning us hockey games.

Everything had to go right for this team to compete, and yet a lot of things went wrong anyway.

On paper, this isn't a very good team. At least, not right now. That's a given.

When you have a young defence because you either don't have good veterans or can't afford them, you need ridiculous goaltending to compensate for that and we don't have that either.

The sad part of this exercise is that we'll have to suck up this year and then turn around and do it again next year without having earned anything for it (aside from Brady Tkachuk).

Re-signing Duchene will take some of the sting out of the season. Re-signing Stone AND Duchene along with Tkachuk's solid start will make the summer relatively bearable.

However, it seems increasingly unlikely with every tire-fire performance after another.

 

[Stylizer1]

Ironically it appears as if the cosmos is out to punish Dorion and Melnyk for their arrogance in trying to raise the bar after trading the team's franchise player for scraps.

Firstly, I've gone on record repeatedly to say that the wheels fall off of teams that rely on rookies once the honeymoon Fall period wears off and more veteran-laden teams start to find their game.

I was expecting December and that's what we've got. We needed to bank points in the fall in order to suffer the inevitable correction later on.

At the same time, we had some surprising performances from Chabot, Tkachuk, Lajoie, White to go along with career performances from Duchene and Stone.

Of course, karma then reared its ugly head with Pageau, DeMelo, Tkachuk, Duchene, Chabot etc. etc. all facing injury at one time or another, hindering our chance to occupy a playoff spot early on when our enthusiasm was winning us hockey games.

Everything had to go right for this team to compete, and yet a lot of things went wrong anyway.

On paper, this isn't a very good team. At least, not right now. That's a given.

When you have a young defence because you either don't have good veterans or can't afford them, you need ridiculous goaltending to compensate for that and we don't have that either.

The sad part of this exercise is that we'll have to suck up this year and then turn around and do it again next year without having earned anything for it (aside from Brady Tkachuk).

Re-signing Duchene will take some of the sting out of the season. Re-signing Stone AND Duchene along with Tkachuk's solid start will make the summer relatively bearable.

However, it seems increasingly unlikely with every tire-fire performance after another.

Does Stone and Duchene really think that this team is going to be legit contenders within their primes? Why take the chance of staying here long term when a decent team gets stripped down to below a bottom feeder? It makes absolutely no sense why Duchene would stay. Stone I could see wanting to be captain but there not much more to it than that. I don't think any fan is looking forward to next season. I'm looking forward to winning the draft next season when we actually have a 1st..

 

[NyQuil]

Does Stone and Duchene really think they this team are going to be legit contenders within their primes? Why take the chance of staying here long term when a decent team gets stripped down to below a bottom feeder? It makes absolutely no sense why Duchene would stay. Stone I could see wanting to be captain but there not much more to it than that. I don't think any fan is looking forward to next season. I'm looking forward to winning the draft next season when we actually have a 1st..

Well, that’s why I voted no in the “Will we re-sign Stone and Duchene” thread.

I can’t see Melnyk massively overpaying them either.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Where is the fast forward button?

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Where is the fast forward button?

God damn I wish there was one.

I've been missing more games than I watch this year, and i've always been the kind of person to watch every game a season unless someone i knew was in the hospital.

 

[Senscore]

 

[jbeck5]

I think "short amount of time" is hyperbole. It can take a few years for top draft picks to produce effectively to raise a team significantly in the NHL league standings.

I think that's what people mean. We can be good in 2-3 years if management was serious. Many teams have turned things around in 2-3 years.

These days, many players are breaking out at 19-21 years old. They aren't mostly taking 5 years like Hoffman. It's more of a young man's game than ever before. Gone are the days of players needing multiple AHL years. Half a year dominating in the AHL is all that's needed as made evidence by all kinds of players on other teams.

 

[alfstheman]

I think that's what people mean. We can be good in 2-3 years if management was serious. Many teams have turned things around in 2-3 years..

I wish I could believe either of those things. We are missing an entire defense core. Only Chabot is an NHLer. Jaros/Wolainen have potential but arent ready yet (though they will play in NHL cause who else?). Our forwards are ok but we have no top liners especially after Stone and Duchene walk. Tkachuk, Batherson, White are looking good but are still young and not 1st line star power that a contender needs to have.

We are going to be bad for the next 5 years, there is no turning it around in 2-3 years. Most teams that won cups lately were terrible for many years before accumulating their cores.

Also the 2nd part "If management is serious" is not something I see changing in 2-3 years time. Will still cheer on the team but hoping for a miracle turnaround is wishful thinking.

 

[jbeck5]

I wish I could believe either of those things. We are missing an entire defense core. Only Chabot is an NHLer. Jaros/Wolainen have potential but arent ready yet (though they will play in NHL cause who else?). Our forwards are ok but we have no top liners especially after Stone and Duchene walk. Tkachuk, Batherson, White are looking good but are still young and not 1st line star power that a contender needs to have.

We are going to be bad for the next 5 years, there is no turning it around in 2-3 years. Most teams that won cups lately were terrible for many years before accumulating their cores.

Also the 2nd part "If management is serious" is not something I see changing in 2-3 years time. Will still cheer on the team but hoping for a miracle turnaround is wishful thinking.

Oh I don't think it will happen for many reasons.

All I'm saying is there's been many times when all neutral fans thought a team was utter crap and predicted to be a lottery team only to have players come out of nowhere and 2 years later all neutral fans are calling for them to have home ice. There's countless examples over the decades.

Problem is it usually takes a committed owner with a great coaching staff and management and scouts that make the right moves at the right time to keep the team in a steady and speedy upswing.

I know it's a long time ago, but looking at a local example. Ottawa was a lottery team then Jacques Martin came. 2-3 years later we're winning the division and fighting for a presidents trophy.

Teams like Tampa, Toronto, etc...all went from crap to cup contender in a 2-3 year span. Same with teams like LA. Yes, they all drafted a complete stud of a star, but I believe we did in chabot as well.

It would take proper ownership, scouts, management, and coaching. None of which we have.

 

[Stylizer1]

Oh I don't think it will happen for many reasons.

All I'm saying is there's been many times when all neutral fans thought a team was utter crap and predicted to be a lottery team only to have players come out of nowhere and 2 years later all neutral fans are calling for them to have home ice. There's countless examples over the decades.

Problem is it usually takes a committed owner with a great coaching staff and management and scouts that make the right moves at the right time to keep the team in a steady and speedy upswing.

I know it's a long time ago, but looking at a local example. Ottawa was a lottery team then Jacques Martin came. 2-3 years later we're winning the division and fighting for a presidents trophy.

Teams like Tampa, Toronto, etc...all went from crap to cup contender in a 2-3 year span. Same with teams like LA. Yes, they all drafted a complete stud of a star, but I believe we did in chabot as well.

It would take proper ownership, scouts, management, and coaching. None of which we have.

Then we need to tank to get those studs While we have crappy management so when the talent improves we can bring in competent coaches and a GM to mold the future. Unfortunately having Melnyk around would be too toxic for any established professional to consider Ottawa an opportunity.

 

[Suiteness]

It's infuriating because we all know the only year our pick will win the lottery is the one where we don't have it.

 

[Upgrayedd]

It's infuriating because we all know the only year our pick will win the lottery is the one where we don't have it.

Would be quite fitting, add in all our UFA's walking and Erik winning the Norris, of course you would still have a few paid shills here and on twitter trying to convince the fanbase that being the laughing stock of the sports world is actually a good thing!

 

[JungleBeat]

There’s hope.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

There’s hope.

that Dorion doesn't trade this pick. It should be 100% he's not trading it.. I'd give it around 65-35 he keeps it.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yeah it’ll kinda be bittersweet. Melnyk and Dorion should feel absolutely no sense of accomplishment.

Who cares about how they feel? I mean, Melnyk probably isn't capable of experiencing feelings anymore anyway