The Great John Hayden Debate (& other ex-Hawks): Volume 6

[Fingers and Toews]

 

[BK]

I am sorry you don’t get it.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Not sure, should i post this here, or create an own thread, but he is a former Hawk, barely.

The Tanti Trade; January 6th 1983.

Hawks 12th overall pick of the 1981 draft, who had an insane OHL career, prior to his pro
career and the obvious reason why Hawks drafted him to begin with.
- broke Gretzky's OHL rookie record for most goals (81), which still stands today,
scored whopping 150 points in his rookie season, with 197 penalty minutes

He ended up playing 2 games for the Hawks, scored 1 goal in his latter, then he was traded to
Vancouver, for Curt Fraser, 26, who stayed in Chicago for 5 seasons.

Fraser scored 19, 17, 50, 68, 50 points and about 500 penalty minutes in Hawks jersey,
where as Tanti, avg'd: 40+ goals in each of his 5 first full seasons with the Canucks
while scoring 350+ points, 86 point season was his best.

Yes, Tanti's career didn't last that long and he declined after his 5th full season with the Canucks
and he left to Europe 3 seasons later, after short stints in Pittsburgh & Buffalo.
- but he led the Canucks in goals for 5 seasons in a row

And Fraser was.. well Hawks fans loved him, and he was impact player i suppose but
if he, Tanti, 20, was given the chance to play with the likes of Savard and Larmer and the rest...
i mean, Tanti-Savard-Larmer line could of been something special you know...

Anywayys...that's that

 

[ChiHawk21]

I am sorry you don’t get it.

that 2015 cup team sucked. they were just 16th of 30 in goals for.

 

[BK]

that 2015 cup team sucked. they were just 16th of 30 in goals for.

You mean the team that finished 2nd in goals against…

Again, I am sorry you don’t get it.

 

[ChiHawk21]

You mean the team that finished 2nd in goals against…

Again, I am sorry you don’t get it.

thats the point you can look at underlying numbers and spin them how you want it. what matters is wins and loses and you are discrediting the 82 game sample size of wins/points.

also you are saying "the numbers show" but not referencing any numbers so its hard to figure out what you are pointing too.

 

[BK]

thats the point you can look at underlying numbers and spin them how you want it. what matters is wins and loses and you are discrediting the 82 game sample size of wins/points.

also you are saying "the numbers show" but not referencing any numbers so its hard to figure out what you are pointing too.

There is zero spin on it though. Who would look at goals for but not goals against?

The numbers being talked about are your typical numbers that most of us here look at (analytically speaking).

 

[ChiHawk21]

There is zero spin on it though. Who would look at goals for but not goals against?

The numbers being talked about are your typical numbers that most of us here look at (analytically speaking).

and that is what?

Is it a huge difference between 16/30 gf and 2/30 ga vs 9/30 gf and 10/30 ga? One team won the cup and the other got swept in the first round.

 

[ClydeLee]

Goals for or goals against are the opposite of advanced metrics though. So I'm not getting the view. They also heavily add Pp and Pk numbers not the 5on5 picture.

Nobody watching 16-17 said they were not that great based on GF or GA. They said so at the time by watching and seeing and the metrics backed that up. Ones already posted about it. Their shots against and expected goals numbers. They weren't top 10 or barely top 10.

It's not saying they were awful like this team and a magical fluke. But it was clear they weren't a legit contender. Stan even seemed to see it by not buying in, I guess you wanted another last hurrah buy in that hurts the future like the prior year. But that served no aim. The last hurrah was 2016. But in 2017 people on here pointed Hjalmarsson was showing decline and looking hurt, Seabrook was way down, and everything about it was looking like they were winning but not deserving a lot of wins by their total play.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Goals for or goals against are the opposite of advanced metrics though. So I'm not getting the view. They also heavily add Pp and Pk numbers not the 5on5 picture.

Nobody watching 16-17 said they were not that great based on GF or GA. They said so at the time by watching and seeing and the metrics backed that up. Ones already posted about it. Their shots against and expected goals numbers. They weren't top 10 or barely top 10.

It's not saying they were awful like this team and a magical fluke. But it was clear they weren't a legit contender. Stan even seemed to see it by not buying in, I guess you wanted another last hurrah buy in that hurts the future like the prior year. But that served no aim. The last hurrah was 2016. But in 2017 people on here pointed Hjalmarsson was showing decline and looking hurt, Seabrook was way down, and everything about it was looking like they were winning but not deserving a lot of wins by their total play.

a team that would have made the playoffs. rebuilding when your star players are 28 didnt make sense to me then and doesnt make sense to me now.

 

[Brightwing]

From 31 Thoughts column:
Crazy rumour that isn’t happening: a Nick Schmaltz buyout. It would be at one-third of his remaining value because he’s 25, but that idea is not being considered.

Has Schmaltz had that bad a season?

 

[BobbyJet]

Goals for or goals against are the opposite of advanced metrics though. So I'm not getting the view. They also heavily add Pp and Pk numbers not the 5on5 picture.

Nobody watching 16-17 said they were not that great based on GF or GA. They said so at the time by watching and seeing and the metrics backed that up. Ones already posted about it. Their shots against and expected goals numbers. They weren't top 10 or barely top 10.

It's not saying they were awful like this team and a magical fluke. But it was clear they weren't a legit contender. Stan even seemed to see it by not buying in, I guess you wanted another last hurrah buy in that hurts the future like the prior year. But that served no aim. The last hurrah was 2016. But in 2017 people on here pointed Hjalmarsson was showing decline and looking hurt, Seabrook was way down, and everything about it was looking like they were winning but not deserving a lot of wins by their total play.

Exactly. Stan wasn't admitting anything back then but he knew the writing was on the wall - it is when his version of the re-build started. Unfortunately, his options were largely limited by the lack of cap space which was his own doing (which has been discussed many times - I don't wish to re-hash).

 

[Northernhawk]

Not sure, should i post this here, or create an own thread, but he is a former Hawk, barely.

The Tanti Trade; January 6th 1983.

Hawks 12th overall pick of the 1981 draft, who had an insane OHL career, prior to his pro
career and the obvious reason why Hawks drafted him to begin with.
- broke Gretzky's OHL rookie record for most goals (81), which still stands today,
scored whopping 150 points in his rookie season, with 197 penalty minutes

He ended up playing 2 games for the Hawks, scored 1 goal in his latter, then he was traded to
Vancouver, for Curt Fraser, 26, who stayed in Chicago for 5 seasons.

Fraser scored 19, 17, 50, 68, 50 points and about 500 penalty minutes in Hawks jersey,
where as Tanti, avg'd: 40+ goals in each of his 5 first full seasons with the Canucks
while scoring 350+ points, 86 point season was his best.

Yes, Tanti's career didn't last that long and he declined after his 5th full season with the Canucks
and he left to Europe 3 seasons later, after short stints in Pittsburgh & Buffalo.
- but he led the Canucks in goals for 5 seasons in a row

And Fraser was.. well Hawks fans loved him, and he was impact player i suppose but
if he, Tanti, 20, was given the chance to play with the likes of Savard and Larmer and the rest...
i mean, Tanti-Savard-Larmer line could of been something special you know...

Anywayys...that's that

Fraser played amazing against the Hawks in 1982 playoffs so they went out and got him the next season...Fraser was eventually traded to Minnesota for Dirk Graham, one of the great Blackhawks captains in their history so it all worked out

 

[Hattrick Kane]

From 31 Thoughts column:
Crazy rumour that isn’t happening: a Nick Schmaltz buyout. It would be at one-third of his remaining value because he’s 25, but that idea is not being considered.

Has Schmaltz had that bad a season?

He’s Strome with speed. Soft, lazy, no defensive awareness. Players like that can convince you for a bit that they’re good. But if you look slightly below the surface, you see exactly what they are and you want nothing to do with them.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Fraser played amazing against the Hawks in 1982 playoffs so they went out and got him the next season...Fraser was eventually traded to Minnesota for Dirk Graham, one of the great Blackhawks captains in their history so it all worked out

Yeah, indeed, it did.

 

[Kevin Musto]

From 31 Thoughts column:
Crazy rumour that isn’t happening: a Nick Schmaltz buyout. It would be at one-third of his remaining value because he’s 25, but that idea is not being considered.

Has Schmaltz had that bad a season?

A hilariously bad contract courtesy of John Chayka

 

[Giovi]

A hilariously bad contract courtesy of John Chayka

Chayka was such an imposter.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Sikura gets his first 2 goals for the Golden Knights, congrats.

 

[Muffinalt]

Sikura gets his first 2 goals for the Golden Knights, congrats.

Sweet, good for Sikura! What a shot like that how did he struggle so much I wonder with scoring here. Maybe he managed to add some more strength now.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Sweet, good for Sikura! What a shot like that how did he struggle so much I wonder with scoring here. Maybe he managed to add some more strength now.

Maybe.

 

[ClydeLee]

Craig Anderson never gets any focus or love as a ex Hawk, but he won game 1 for the Caps.

 

[Crow]

Craig Anderson never gets any focus or love as a ex Hawk, but he won game 1 for the Caps.

Well he didn’t have much success here and he did elsewhere so that’s probably why. Sucks because he is from right up the street from me.

 

[BobbyJet]

Sweet, good for Sikura! What a shot like that how did he struggle so much I wonder with scoring here. Maybe he managed to add some more strength now.

Funny enough, Highmore scored twice last night and the first goal was a helluva goal... we didn't see that snipe ability when he played in Chicago.

 

[Northernhawk]

Funny enough, Highmore scored twice last night and the first goal was a helluva goal... we didn't see that snipe ability when he played in Chicago.

Highmore was great in the bubble last season...not even going to think about how good he could be...ugh, Tyler Motte all over again, but everyone needs to remember Bowman found him

 

[BobbyJet]

Highmore was great in the bubble last season...not even going to think about how good he could be...ugh, Tyler Motte all over again, but everyone needs to remember Bowman found him

Or is Highmore the guy Hawks fans saw all season long. Plenty of hustle but little else.
One good snipe in a season is hardly worth the accolades you are affording him.