The Great Fight Debate thread

[LSCII]

I wanted the Bruins to grab Reaves as soon as we lost Thornton, I don’t expect them to go after Reaves because like you said, he’s fairly expensive. I also believe Reaves brings much more to the table than Acciari. I don’t think he’s a realistic target unless Vegas retains, which they won’t. They love him there.

I have also mentioned Anderson, Ferland, etc this past offseason. Both are playing good hockey and their teams seem happy. I have been watching Anderson a lot this year, he and Dubois are pretty dominant. They’re a traditional line, a line with great size and good skill. Both guys hit, both guys will get nasty, and both guys will score. We’re lacking that here. I don’t get how people continue to argue against it.

I don’t even see a guy coming up in the system that really brings a big physical element that we’re missing. We’re kind of trapped on an island I think.

I don't think people are arguing against it at all. In fact, I see most people being on board with adding that kind of player. The issue is that guys like that are not readily available, like Reaves in Vegas. Like you said, they love him there so it's not likely they'd move him. Ferland is a good player, and he'll command a decent price once he hits the open market next year. I highly doubt the B's are going to be fishing in the UFA pool given they have quite a few of their own guys to resign coming up, and that Backes deal is hanging like an anchor around Sweeney's neck.

I'd say Frederic is probably the likely scenario going forward.

 

[bb_fan]

so you identify a problem as you see it but can`t offer potential solutions to it?

Is this a serious question?

Am i supposed to be well versed on every player in the nhl, ahl and prospects for this?

Last i checked i had a full time job that wasn't in the nhl.

I've got opinions on dark chocolate vs milk chocolate, but i don't know crap about Chocolate other than how it tastes.

Should i not have an opinion there too?

Mind telling mec what i can express an opinion on then?

 

[Blowfish]

I'm most worried about players damaging their hands as they punch visors and helmets and/or the players missing their cue to fight.

 

[easton117]

I don’t understand the frothing at the mouth anger in here

Lots of passion here!

I say that to my wife (Italian) when she gets uppity. It’s just the passion talking!

Usually that leads to some alone time.

My research here tells me you are all obviously Italian. That and Danton Heinen is the most loved/hated 100 game Bruin that I can remember.

Combine the two and this site is like every in-law meal I’ve been to.

 

[Sheppy]

Some people should have a look at “Ice Guardians” - It’s geared more towards enforcers, but there’s quite a bit of information from current, past and present.

It’s great stuff, actually.

 

[Fenian24]

I would have liked nothing better than for someone to grab Polak and rag-doll him the other night. My question is how high should getting a guy to do that be on your priority list?

More than a 3rd line C? More than a legit Top 6 RW?

I would answer no. It would be great if someone like Cave or Frederic stepped up and they could address multiple needs internally instead of via trade.

In the grand scheme it should be third, after the team is healthy a second line RW and third line center are the first two priorities then a big forward or two who can at least play bottom six and be solid defensively.

This goes back to my argument on Sweeney doing nothing in the off season besides "trying" to improve the team. It was stated by many posters that he could fill those needs in season if he had to but give the kids a chance first. That isn't working out to me as pre injuries they couldn't score consistently if the Bergeron line wasn't doing it, had no third line center and Wagner did not answer the physical element they needed. The list of players who have been debated that were available in the of season to fill the roll of a physical forward willing and able to fight has been gone over enough, Sweeney made the choice to not pursue one of those players and now needs one as badly as he needs to fill the other holes the team has. Even when healthy this team is not as good as Tampa or Toronto.

 

[ODAAT]

Is this a serious question?

Am i supposed to be well versed on every player in the nhl, ahl and prospects for this?

Last i checked i had a full time job that wasn't in the nhl.

I've got opinions on dark chocolate vs milk chocolate, but i don't know crap about Chocolate other than how it tastes.

Should i not have an opinion there too?

Mind telling mec what i can express an opinion on then?

Feel free to express an opinion on anything you wish but I too have a full time job that isn`t Hf Boards and I haven`t near the time and willingness to dissect NHL lineups and scour through every player however, what I really appreciate from posters while not always agreeing is that if they don`t like something, how about providing their potential idea or solution to fixing it rather than just pushing out a random statement?

I work in management in the position I hold, I`m far more appreciative if a staff member comes to me and says something isn`t working and they provide a possible idea of something to try rather than someone just saying the way we do things is BS then offers nothing

I read a ton of posts here in the fight debate with many posting who they`d target, now, I disagree with many of the targets but at least they are looking at options, same as the trade thread, most are unrealistic but at least posters trying to mix it up a bit.

 

[Dr Hook]

If the wheels completely fall of Philly's wagon this season, I'd deal for Wayne Simmonds. He'd have the season and hopefully the playoffs to earn a longer deal and prove that his injury woes are behind him. He would solve a lot of the isses we have with grit and intensity in the forward group. Still need to find that 3C that can play that type of game.

 

[Tmac37]

Fighting still has a place in the game, would be nice if the Bruins had a player up front that was decent at it and could take a regular shift. JMO.

As Sheppy notes above, watching Ice Guardians shows far more concussions come from hits than fights. Take Charlie and Urho this year for example.

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

Lots of passion here!

I say that to my wife (Italian) when she gets uppity. It’s just the passion talking!

Usually that leads to some alone time.

My research here tells me you are all obviously Italian. That and Danton Heinen is the most loved/hated 100 game Bruin that I can remember.

Combine the two and this site is like every in-law meal I’ve been to.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

[easton117]

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Lol cheers! You as well!

 

[gumgum]

You can viscerally deconstruct this whole debate into it just being impossible to reconcile something that's cool and good with the destructive results, like drugs

 

[Chief Nine]

You can viscerally deconstruct this whole debate into it just being impossible to reconcile something that's cool and good with the destructive results, like drugs

This somehow reminds me of the scene from Animal House where they smoke weed with the professor

 

[Dr Quincy]

It is a matter of experience, the poster feeled and lived it.

EDIT- NVM- Answered later on

 

[Dr Quincy]

I will make one point that I don’t think has been made clearly, at least not recently.

If the Bruins had three Tom Wilson types running around, hounding and pounding the other team, an argument could certainly be made that that would prevent other teams Tom Wilson’s from spending their time hunting Bruins.

Regardless of where one comes down on fighting/enforcing, it’s hard to argue that doing it to them before it gets done to you is a valid tactic.

An argument can also be made that they would be heavily penalized and playing on the PK far too much.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Again, not saying it makes you a better team, but it would seem in this day and age it makes you safer when the opponents have to consider there may be some type of retaliation in having to drop the gloves or having one of your stars run for running theirs.

If you believe that players, in the middle of a play, stop and process the pros and cons of making a hit.. and thinking 'hmm, I could hit this guy, but this team has a tough guy... who might ask me to fight, but then again, I don't have to and if he comes at me, my team is going to get pp time for an instigator penalty... " or "Hmm I could make this hit, and this team has nobody that will fight me"....

then why wouldn't they also process the pros and cons of "Hmm if I hit this guy I could get fined, and suspended, and give the other team a pp".

I mean, if you believe that players make these decisions, then why aren't things like fines, suspensions, competitive disadvantage deterrents to you?

I think watching Marchand we should all realize that much of the time players do things without thinking at all about consequences.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Top hits leaders for NHL forwards, penalty minutes on all of these guys are extremely low, almost all except Lucic are below 1 minute per game who is also -8. Shows just how much fighting has left the game. The teams aren't any more successful with bruisers, Vegas has the top two physical forwards in the league by hits, they are 7th in the Pacific right now.

Carrier - Vegas- 21 GP-98 Hits -10 PIMS -2 7th in the Pacific -725,000 / 3G 1A
Reaves- Vegas- 21 GP- 82 Hit - 16 PIMS +2 7th in Pacific- 2,725,000 / 4 G 1A
Paquette- Tampa- 20 Gp-71 Hits - 21 PIMS -2 1st in East 1,000,000 / 3G 1A
Lucic- Edomton-21 GP-64 Hits - 30 PIMS -8 6th in Pacific 6,000,000 / 1G 4A
Foligno- Minn- 20GP-64 Hits - 21 PIMS 0 2nd in Central 2,875,000/ 1G 3A
Ferland- Carolina- 20Gp-64 Hits - 13 PIMS +5 6th in Metro 1,750,000 / 10G 4A
Wagner- Boston 18GP-57 Hits -6 PIMS -2 4th in East 1,250,000/ 1G 1A

You only can get a hit when the other team has the puck. Players who rack up hits are often doing it because they or their team suck. Much like a safety who gets a lot of tackles or a team that turns a lot of double plays.... it's an indicator that you are playing defense way too much.

 

[LouJersey]

If you believe that players, in the middle of a play, stop and process the pros and cons of making a hit.. and thinking 'hmm, I could hit this guy, but this team has a tough guy... who might ask me to fight, but then again, I don't have to and if he comes at me, my team is going to get pp time for an instigator penalty... " or "Hmm I could make this hit, and this team has nobody that will fight me"....

then why wouldn't they also process the pros and cons of "Hmm if I hit this guy I could get fined, and suspended, and give the other team a pp".

I mean, if you believe that players make these decisions, then why aren't things like fines, suspensions, competitive disadvantage deterrents to you?

I think watching Marchand we should all realize that much of the time players do things without thinking at all about consequences.

I think it’s a decision long before the game. Many of these guys don’t hit and don’t play physical.

If you don’t think they know what teams they can ramp it up against I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think it’s a decision long before the game. Many of these guys don’t hit and don’t play physical.

If you don’t think they know what teams they can ramp it up against I don’t know what to tell you.

You missed the point: Let's use Marchand again- Doesn't he know that if he does something like dive at a guy's knee or slewfoot someone or elbow someone, that he's going to get suspended and fined heavily and that it's going to hurt his team immensely to have him out of the lineup?

Yet he does these things.

AND.....

according to some the B's are the softest team in the league and are unique in their unwillingness to stick up for each other and retaliate for cheap hits.

By that logic, doesn't it mean that other teams WILL respond to cheap hits?
And if other teams WILL respond to cheap hits....... why doesn't Marchand alter his play to avoid this relatiation?

We have an example of a guy who cheap shots people left and right and is not deterred at all by guys on other teams.. but somehow we are suppoed to believe other players on other teams WILL be deterred.

I feel like I'm stuck inside the book Kneeknock Rise arguing about the Megrimum with the townspeople of Instep.

 

[LouJersey]

You missed the point: Let's use Marchand again- Doesn't he know that if he does something like dive at a guy's knee or slewfoot someone or elbow someone, that he's going to get suspended and fined heavily and that it's going to hurt his team immensely to have him out of the lineup?

Yet he does these things.

AND.....

according to some the B's are the softest team in the league and are unique in their unwillingness to stick up for each other and retaliate for cheap hits.

By that logic, doesn't it mean that other teams WILL respond to cheap hits?
And if other teams WILL respond to cheap hits....... why doesn't Marchand alter his play to avoid this relatiation?

We have an example of a guy who cheap shots people left and right and is not deterred at all by guys on other teams.. but somehow we are suppoed to believe other players on other teams WILL be deterred.

I feel like I'm stuck inside the book Kneeknock Rise arguing about the Megrimum with the townspeople of Instep.

You still have sociopaths and Marchand is clearly one. No defending or explaining the Marchand/Wilson type players

How many other Bruins play over the edge like Marchand? None? That is correct.

Bruins will always stick up for each other but never hit dirty sadly.

 

[Gee Wally]

Enough.
Take the off topic pissing contest to PM.

 

[LouJersey]

Ross Johnston vs Cody McLeod Nov 21, 2018

Here’s my guy

Johnston plus 250k retained for Acciari

 

[KrejciMVP]

If you believe that players, in the middle of a play, stop and process the pros and cons of making a hit.. and thinking 'hmm, I could hit this guy, but this team has a tough guy... who might ask me to fight, but then again, I don't have to and if he comes at me, my team is going to get pp time for an instigator penalty... " or "Hmm I could make this hit, and this team has nobody that will fight me"....

then why wouldn't they also process the pros and cons of "Hmm if I hit this guy I could get fined, and suspended, and give the other team a pp".

I mean, if you believe that players make these decisions, then why aren't things like fines, suspensions, competitive disadvantage deterrents to you?

I think watching Marchand we should all realize that much of the time players do things without thinking at all about consequences.

Yes players do have discipline to lay off dirty hits. Thats called self control. Some players might even lay off making dirty hits for fear of repercussion. That's called deterrants and they are used in many forms of life outside hockey

If I'm in a Yankee bar I probably won't say bad things about the Yankees bc there are many Yankee fans in the bar to deter me from that behaviour.

Simple

 

[Sheppy]

Ross Johnston vs Cody McLeod Nov 21, 2018

Here’s my guy

Johnston plus 250k retained for Acciari

BUT HE CAN'T PLAY HOCKEY!

 

[Tbrady12]

Bruins no penalties last night. ZERO
What would Ross Johnson have provided and where would he have played?