The Great Fight Debate thread

[Gee Wally]

Keep it ALL in here.
Keep it absolutely civil.

This is the only warning that will be given.

Click to read more...

 

[eightspokedb]

Yes....and get rid of the instigator rule..

That is all...

 

[Don Cherry]

Yes....and get rid of the instigator rule..

That is all...

The instigator rule is stupid but its been around for 25 years now. There's been a LOT of rough, tough hockey since '93. I mentioned this the other day. Not many anti-fighting rules have been put in place in a quarter century. I think the players themselves have been only too happy to buy into this new, kinder and more gentle NHL.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Some of my general thoughts before this thread turns into a total shit show.

I like fighting and I like hard, physical play. I don't think it's as important as a handful here do. I don't want to see fighting out of the league but I have no problem with the lack of straight up goons. I don't need to see two goons have some staged dance because that's the only thing they can contribute in their 6 minutes of ice time each night.

Size isn't as important as attitude. And even if we want to talk about size, this Bruins roster isn't particularly small. There are two forwards under 6 feet. 1 is Acciari who's value is that he hits. The other is Marchand.

I don't think many people, if any, here advocate for a lack of physical play. If they do, it's people who's posts I can't see because I really never see that sentiment. What I see is people who don't want to sacrifice speed and skill in exchange for a guy that fights.

Finally (for now) because I'm so tired of reading it over and over again: having a heavyweight isn't going to protect our guys from being run. I didn't like the McQuaid trade and would prefer to have kept him, but he isn't scaring guys from taking runs (when he plays). People here complained about our guys being run last year even with McQuaid on the team. Having McQuaid (or Lucic or Thornton or Chara or Boychuk or plenty of other tough players) did not prevent Savard or Bergeron or Eriksson or countless other Bruins from being run. I'm reminded of Jannik Hansen running around like a douche bag at the end of Game 7 in 2011, and then hiding from McQuaid for the next 7 years.

I think it's pretty much impossible to have any real conversation about this because there are a few people who dominate these threads with their over exaggerated bull shit

 

[TwineTickler]

I think it's a lot about the faster paced NHL and doing away with the enforcers and having them replaced with speed/skill guys, but then it's also a lot of what Torts said or alluded to. Everyone is chummy on the ice with one another for the most part. There is not as much immediate bad blood for no apparent reason alive in the NHL anymore. There has been no cut down on fighting by the league, but by the players on the ice. They are trying to cut down head shots, but head shots are still happening, but what's not happening is anyone having to answer for one. I feel like far too often now a dirty hit is met with the team affected not reacting for fear of cancelling out a powerplay which sucks. I don't think there will be any more Dallas Stars/Bruins games of a few years ago where they had 3 fights in the first 3 seconds, and then the Savvy attacking Ott moment because he had been a piece of shit all game and then everyone squared off. I'd like more of that still in the game. I want the teams to hate each other on the ice.

 

[Don Cherry]

I also think a lot of it is the refs told to jump in and prevent fights before they happen. They used to simply wait for one guy to get the upper hand before jumping in. Now they're in there before words can even be exchanged.

 

[Elmer]

Is that a shoe in your hand Wally?

 

[easton117]

I think it's a lot about the faster paced NHL and doing away with the enforcers and having them replaced with speed/skill guys, but then it's also a lot of what Torts said or alluded to. Everyone is chummy on the ice with one another for the most part. There is not as much immediate bad blood for no apparent reason alive in the NHL anymore. There has been no cut down on fighting by the league, but by the players on the ice. They are trying to cut down head shots, but head shots are still happening, but what's not happening is anyone having to answer for one. I feel like far too often now a dirty hit is met with the team affected not reacting for fear of cancelling out a powerplay which sucks. I don't think there will be any more Dallas Stars/Bruins games of a few years ago where they had 3 fights in the first 3 seconds, and then the Savvy attacking Ott moment because he had been a piece of **** all game and then everyone squared off. I'd like more of that still in the game. I want the teams to hate each other on the ice.

I have no numbers whatsoever to back this up, but I kind of wonder if the turnover in players had a lot to do with the lack of hate we see in games now.

Teams jettison vets for kids at what seems to be a younger age now. The youth coming in just haven’t played enough games to even have a hate on for someone in the league. They’re too busy just trying to learn where the hell they are supposed to be on the ice.

I agree I don’t think the nhl is really behind the lack of fights at all. Unless you want to pick away at their scheduling which is atrocious. I’d say give it a few years and see what happens.

 

[Mount Kramer Cameras]

I also think a lot of it is the refs told to jump in and prevent fights before they happen. They used to simply wait for one guy to get the upper hand before jumping in. Now they're in there before words can even be exchanged.

And this is the beginning of the end. At some point fighting will result in an automatic game misconduct. Then it'll eventually be outlawed. I give it 10 years max.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I think it's a lot about the faster paced NHL and doing away with the enforcers and having them replaced with speed/skill guys, but then it's also a lot of what Torts said or alluded to. Everyone is chummy on the ice with one another for the most part. There is not as much immediate bad blood for no apparent reason alive in the NHL anymore. There has been no cut down on fighting by the league, but by the players on the ice. They are trying to cut down head shots, but head shots are still happening, but what's not happening is anyone having to answer for one. I feel like far too often now a dirty hit is met with the team affected not reacting for fear of cancelling out a powerplay which sucks. I don't think there will be any more Dallas Stars/Bruins games of a few years ago where they had 3 fights in the first 3 seconds, and then the Savvy attacking Ott moment because he had been a piece of **** all game and then everyone squared off. I'd like more of that still in the game. I want the teams to hate each other on the ice.

Loved those games against Dallas. These days there is no added entertainment factor like this. Makes it all quite boring, similar to soccer but on skates. Cant remember the last time I stayed up for a west coast game just to see what drama unfolds

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Some of my top 10 favorite memeries in bruins history were some terry oreilly fights

And some pj stock fights

I never felt the pj stock fights helped us win but they were fun

Oreilly played 35 years ago... the game has changed. Rules have changed. I dont like the rule changes but id be a fool if i didnt acknowledge them

Like life itself... being a coward can hurt moral. Getting intimidated can lead to loss. But many of the strongest human brings are not fighters

People like ghandi refused to be intimidated... stayed strong... but never raised fist in anger

Patrice bergeron doesnt get intimidated on the ice... brad marchand doesnt shrink away from competitive hockey

There might be a certain point a team becomes too small... you do need several big bodies that could fight if necessary. But its not important to go looking for fights. Fights dont stop cheap shots.

A fight after a cheapshot is done to promote team moral and family togetherness... guys on the otherside dont change how they play out of fear of a fight

As a fan.. i will always like fighters. But ask me who the top 10 fighters in nhl are today and id prob name guys over the age of 30

Its been a long time since being a 6'6 steroid kid with hormone rage actually had any value in the nhl

 

[gumgum]

Players no longer fear having to fight, or getting just straight up punched anyways, so its usefulness is dead. It was always a tool of intimidation rather than something that had a real, direct, substantial influence on the outcome of a game.

Personally, I grew up attending hundreds of AHL games at a time where every team seemingly had at least one 'heavyweight' and several guys that would go. I have an affinity for it and the players that are willing to do it, but it is dead in the NHL; you can occupy that roster spot with a guy who is slightly more skilled than the guy who can throw them cause, at the end of the day, like I said, there is no real motivation, obligation, or reasonable inclination to fight cause it gains players nothing unless they are so famously good at it that one of the few teams that still offers a spot for that ilk of player, whether that be for strategic or cultural reasons. The era is dead.

 

[JRull86]

I'll take every single one of you on. Meet me in the alley.

Oh, that's not what this thread is about?

 

[gumgum]

The instigator rule is stupid but its been around for 25 years now. There's been a LOT of rough, tough hockey since '93. I mentioned this the other day. Not many anti-fighting rules have been put in place in a quarter century. I think the players themselves have been only too happy to buy into this new, kinder and more gentle NHL.

Yeah, but the context of the league now as opposed to the league even 4 seasons ago is massive in terms of how that rule is applied

 

[Gee Wally]

And this is the beginning of the end. At some point fighting will result in an automatic game misconduct. Then it'll eventually be outlawed. I give it 10 years max.

Exactly the way I foresee the future. Simple evolution.

 

[sarge88]

I’d be entirely happy to see the bottom two guys on every team in the league be replaced by guys like Byers, Thornton, Miller etc.

I honestly get much less enjoyment watching the likes of Acciari do what he does than I did watching the guys I mentioned above do what they did.

Since I know it won’t happen and this is a wish-list, I’d love to see the instigator penalty eliminated too.

A bench clearing brawl once a month or so would be appreciated as well.

 

[LouJersey]

Reaves with his 4th goal tonight?

Would be tied with Marchand for 3rd on the Bruins

 

[Sheppy]

Reaves with his 4th goal tonight?

Would be tied with Marchand for 3rd on the Bruins

He’s a one dimensional goon!

Seriously, he’s a f***ing awesome dude. Everyone loves him, and he’s the toughest guy in the NHL. Oh, and he isn’t a liability.

 

[Baddkarma]

Most games already resemble a SEL game.

I guess I should be glad I had 25 years of the real thing.

Ending fighting is to save the teams and players money because of law suits, they are no where near the leading cause of concussions.

 

[Chief Nine]

Most games already resemble a SEL game.

I guess I should be glad I had 25 years of the real thing.

Ending fighting is to save the teams and players money because of law suits, they are no where near the leading cause of concussions.

There’s too much at stake now with the value of the franchises and the league can’t and won’t expose themselves to potential lawsuits.

These owners are all very wealthy businesses people and they aren’t going to take any risks no matter what bearing fights have on concussions and CTE.

That’s the reality

 

[LouJersey]

And this is the beginning of the end. At some point fighting will result in an automatic game misconduct. Then it'll eventually be outlawed. I give it 10 years max.

I don’t know. The league hasn’t even admitted their players could be prone to CTE. They also know people at the games go nuts when there are fights and your commissioner loves them and isn’t going to be the guy remembered for banning it

 

[Sheppy]

I’m finding the game harder to harder to watch.

I’m also only 28 and saying this...

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Some of my happest hockey moments were hearing how gordie howe would fight... or how tough bobby orr was

Of course my fav alltime player terry oreilly was not only called best fighter in nhl by hockey digest... but led the team in scoring

Cam neely... scott stevens... even an eric lindros... and right up to modern times with milan lucic

I like when the top players in the game are able to drop gloves with one another because the competive battle of this sport genetically creates situations where fights are appropriate

I mean the guys carry wooden weapons and run into each other hard enough to destroy knees and seperate shoulders and rattle brains. Fights between players with a legitimate issue are and always should be... part of this game

But honestly i was unhappy when teams started dressing 6 min per night meatballs. Fights between darrin kimbel and sandy mccarthy did absolutely nothing for me. Im sure their families were hsppy with the 6 figure contract but id take my bathroom break when i saw these guys get a shift

Watching george laraque challange milan lucic to a fight or peter worell try to challange chara made me want to barf... and id feel the same way if jay miller was classless enough to challange scott stevens or eric lindross too

I like fights in hockey but only if the guy fighting is valuable enough to be taking a regular shift

Id pass a rule... guys who enter a game averaging at least 12 mins a game are allowed 1 fight. Guys averaging more than 16 mins can fight up to 3 times

Anyone else that fights gets a 5 game suspension.

I mean really... if a guy cant play well enough to be above 4th line why do we want him fighting anyhow?

On the other hand guys like lucic can still sell tickets when they bring it. If i thought chara and wilson were going to have a showdown... id be setting my recording device.

Or ovechkin fighting with hedman...

I hate the whole idea of designated fighters... 1 guy whose only reason for being there is a fight. It takes away so much potential for far more interesting memories

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Gotta keep it in the game. People need to answer for things they do or stick will be flying everywhere.

 

[Ratty]

The only thing more boring than another fighting thread is watching two combatants trying to concuss one another while wearing helmets and face shields.