The Great Fight Debate thread

[Chief Nine]

Anyway, I’m at a point of diminishing return in this thread and am not convinced everyone involved is actually interested in a discussion - ironically I’ve seen the same sentiment expressed from the “other side”.

I’ve watched the Bruins and hockey in general for over thirty years. I played up until tier two junior A and the only reason I was able to was I could fight. Now, mind you, I scored 88 goals in my final season to pair with 398 minutes in penalties, but that was more a reflection of them, not me

Humble brag aside, it’s a brand of hockey I enjoyed playing and have always enjoyed watching. To me, hockey is best served with a healthy dose of hate, and that hate is nearly gone if not completely gone. I miss it.

I don’t miss staged fights, the Peter Worrell’s of the world were an abomination. But I dearly miss putting the fear of god(s) into opposing teams. I dearly miss the 2011 Dallas and Montreal season defining games and more importantly the character those teams had to even enable those responses. That’s not solved through a “goon”, which is why it’s laughable when someone summarily dismisses my stance that way.

Hell, now, it’s not even solved by way of team makeup at all because the rest of the league has gone the way of video game hockey that relatively speaking is void of that hate I mentioned.

I’m looking only to maintain some semblance of what the game once was, and what my beloved team were once kings of.

It’s heartbreaking to me to see them having to resort to guys like Bergeron and Marchand - who, in isolation a la Bergy Malkin can be game changing - but as your general solution is pitiful.

Enjoy the rinse and repeat in this thread. Time to wave the white flag.

You've brought up some great points that I've agreed with, and I agree with the sentiment of this post. But I place the blame on the lack of hatred for the other guys squarely on the need to have home and home games for each team in the league. You play each team in your division a couple more times a year and I guarantee you the hate will ratchet up.

Hell I freely admit that I don't have the hate I once had for the Canadiens and even the Sabres like it was 20-25 years ago. I guarantee the games against Toronto and even Florida would be more fun to watch because of the friction if we saw them more. We haven't even seen the Panthers yet this season and we're in the 2nd month. But the Bruins have played Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver and Vegas twice already.

There's the reason right there that the passion is missing

 

[NeelyDan]

I don’t think people summarily dismissed your stance because it revolved around your theory about goons. I think it was dismissed because you were implying that you playing Junior A hockey X amount of years ago when times were different somehow made you more qualified to expound on the subject than other people?

The whole “team toughness” thing and it being about an attitude or mentality and not because of goons was discussed awhile back in this thread (before you showed up).

Was never my intent, fairly certain I even said as much - only that it offered a unique lens on the topic. As coaching would. As any number of tangent roles likely would.

Definitely not more qualified, tho. There are some legitimate hockey geniuses in this environment who may or may not have played the game at all for all I know.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Was never my intent, fairly certain I even said as much - only that it offered a unique lens on the topic. As coaching would. As any number of tangent roles likely would.

Definitely not more qualified, tho. There are some legitimate hockey geniuses in this environment who may or may not have played the game at all for all I know.

I’m not so sure about that?

 

[Dr Hook]

You've brought up some great points that I've agreed with, and I agree with the sentiment of this post. But I place the blame on the lack of hatred for the other guys squarely on the need to have home and home games for each team in the league. You play each team in your division a couple more times a year and I guarantee you the hate will ratchet up.

Hell I freely admit that I don't have the hate I once had for the Canadiens and even the Sabres like it was 20-25 years ago. I guarantee the games against Toronto and even Florida would be more fun to watch because of the friction if we saw them more. We haven't even seen the Panthers yet this season and we're in the 2nd month. But the Bruins have played Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver and Vegas twice already.

There's the reason right there that the passion is missing

This is a great point, actually. The league has decided that every team should get to see every team at home right? I guess it makes sense from a marketing standpoint, but in a 31 team league, that doesn't leave a lot for rivalry series' like we used to get. I would prefer going back to doing 1/2 the western teams (2 games) each season, and take the remaining 15 or so games and split them up in the division, or most of them, and keep the rest in the east.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

This is a great point, actually. The league has decided that every team should get to see every team at home right? I guess it makes sense from a marketing standpoint, but in a 31 team league, that doesn't leave a lot for rivalry series' like we used to get. I would prefer going back to doing 1/2 the western teams (2 games) each season, and take the remaining 15 or so games and split them up in the division, or most of them, and keep the rest in the east.

The expression, “familiarity breeds contempt” came about for a reason.

I would like to see the NHL return to more “in conference” games as well.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

You've brought up some great points that I've agreed with, and I agree with the sentiment of this post. But I place the blame on the lack of hatred for the other guys squarely on the need to have home and home games for each team in the league. You play each team in your division a couple more times a year and I guarantee you the hate will ratchet up.

Hell I freely admit that I don't have the hate I once had for the Canadiens and even the Sabres like it was 20-25 years ago. I guarantee the games against Toronto and even Florida would be more fun to watch because of the friction if we saw them more. We haven't even seen the Panthers yet this season and we're in the 2nd month. But the Bruins have played Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver and Vegas twice already.

There's the reason right there that the passion is missing

This is a great point, actually. The league has decided that every team should get to see every team at home right? I guess it makes sense from a marketing standpoint, but in a 31 team league, that doesn't leave a lot for rivalry series' like we used to get. I would prefer going back to doing 1/2 the western teams (2 games) each season, and take the remaining 15 or so games and split them up in the division, or most of them, and keep the rest in the east.

The expression, “familiarity breeds contempt” came about for a reason.

I would like to see the NHL return to more “in conference” games as well.

In a thread where we can't seem to agree, this is something we can all agree on.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Anyway, I’m at a point of diminishing return in this thread and am not convinced everyone involved is actually interested in a discussion - ironically I’ve seen the same sentiment expressed from the “other side”.

I’ve watched the Bruins and hockey in general for over thirty years. I played up until tier two junior A and the only reason I was able to was I could fight. Now, mind you, I scored 88 goals in my final season to pair with 398 minutes in penalties, but that was more a reflection of them, not me

Humble brag aside, it’s a brand of hockey I enjoyed playing and have always enjoyed watching. To me, hockey is best served with a healthy dose of hate, and that hate is nearly gone if not completely gone. I miss it.

I don’t miss staged fights, the Peter Worrell’s of the world were an abomination. But I dearly miss putting the fear of god(s) into opposing teams. I dearly miss the 2011 Dallas and Montreal season defining games and more importantly the character those teams had to even enable those responses. That’s not solved through a “goon”, which is why it’s laughable when someone summarily dismisses my stance that way.

Hell, now, it’s not even solved by way of team makeup at all because the rest of the league has gone the way of video game hockey that relatively speaking is void of that hate I mentioned.

I’m looking only to maintain some semblance of what the game once was, and what my beloved team were once kings of.

It’s heartbreaking to me to see them having to resort to guys like Bergeron and Marchand - who, in isolation a la Bergy Malkin can be game changing - but as your general solution is pitiful.

Enjoy the rinse and repeat in this thread. Time to wave the white flag.

It's the fight to save the Bruins. I agree it's a helpless feeling but it is just isolated to Boston and its just this year. Similar to when the Boychuk trade hurt the teams identity the Mcquaid trade had a similar effect. Hopefully Jacob's sees what's happening and will make the fix

 

[Glove Malfunction]

It's the fight to save the Bruins. I agree it's a helpless feeling but it is just isolated to Boston and its just this year. Similar to when the Boychuk trade hurt the teams identity the Mcquaid trade had a similar effect. Hopefully Jacob's sees what's happening and will make the fix

Isolated just to Boston? Have you watched any other NHL teams the past couple of seasons?

 

[Chief Nine]

This is a great point, actually. The league has decided that every team should get to see every team at home right? I guess it makes sense from a marketing standpoint, but in a 31 team league, that doesn't leave a lot for rivalry series' like we used to get. I would prefer going back to doing 1/2 the western teams (2 games) each season, and take the remaining 15 or so games and split them up in the division, or most of them, and keep the rest in the east.

And add in Seattle and that’s 2 more games that a) one more game you have to add on to a west coast trip and b) takes away a home game against probably a Metropolitan division team like Pittsburgh or Philly that most B’s fans would rather see here in Boston

 

[Chief Nine]

It's the fight to save the Bruins. I agree it's a helpless feeling but it is just isolated to Boston and its just this year. Similar to when the Boychuk trade hurt the teams identity the Mcquaid trade had a similar effect. Hopefully Jacob's sees what's happening and will make the fix

This is just way off base.

Just Boston?

Do you have a dartboard with doom and gloom tidbits in the dark sections and completely negative way off the mark takes in the lighter ones that you toss darts at and post whatever the darts hit?

 

[KrejciMVP]

This is just way off base.

Just Boston?

Do you have a dartboard with doom and gloom tidbits in the dark sections and completely negative way off the mark takes in the lighter ones that you toss darts at and post whatever the darts hit?

You seem desperate to destroy hockey. Won't happen. At least not in Canada, I'm sure the KHL fights are great too

 

[KrejciMVP]

Isolated just to Boston? Have you watched any other NHL teams the past couple of seasons?

Yep other teams are focused on doing what it takes to win. All I see here are excuses

 

[Chief Nine]

You seem desperate to destroy hockey. Won't happen. At least not in Canada, I'm sure the KHL fights are great too

Yes, you’ve finally figured me out after carefully reading and dissecting my posts. I’m out to destroy hockey all by myself

Then after that, it’s the world.

Well done

 

[bb_fan]

Then why in a thread about fighting and physical play, is Chris Wagner never even mentioned? The reality is exactly what I said. The people arguing about physical play don't really want physical play. They want goonism. They want blood lust. And they're not going to be happy given the direction the game is heading. It's merely a matter of time before fighting will be legislated out of the sport all together.

no, the reality is not 'exactly' what you said. which again, makes any discussion withy you pointless.

Wagner has been mentioned, but he's ONE guy.

whether you've been pleased with his physical play, or disappointed in it, is another story.

 

[bb_fan]

The “jackass arguments about cheap shots”?

Maybe you should talk to the people on your side of the fence? They are the ones making the argument that Enforcers prevent cheap shots, not me. I’m saying get a physical player so we can run the other guys skill players, when they inevitably run ours.

The police analogy is great, except that they are a part of society, and hockey enforcers play a game. Two completely different arenas with completely different sets of rules, but the police thing sounds cool, so just keep going with it.

A. the post wasn't directed at any one side or the other.
B. the analogy was pretty apt, you get it pretty clearly, whether it involves actual real life analogies or fairy land tales or what ever, the point remains the same, but hey, way to take it out context to keep sounding 'cool'. just keep going with that.

 

[Dr Hook]

Wagner has been mentioned, but he's ONE guy.

We need more than Wagner for sure. But we don't need another one like him that doesn't have some sort of offensive ability. That is the hard part of getting tougher and grittier. Bruins could probably land Wagner types all day long- guys that are decent skaters, can throw hits, play with some energy, but contribute next to nothing offensively. The Bruins 4th line creates some chances for itself with some good physical play at times, and can't bury the biscuit. Acciari, Kuraly, Wagner. We have some players that play with the right attitude, but can't finish to save their lives.

 

[bb_fan]

Who's arguing that at all? Kampfer is only playing because of the all injuries. If someone said it, I missed it, and if they did say it, that is silly, I agree. But put our defense corps back together and it is not small or soft. We have two small, but not soft guys in Krug and Gryz, that's it. We probably need more of a physical presence in the top 9. I don't know where it comes from at this point, or maybe the team as a whole just needs to reorient themselves a bit. Or the coaching staff? This was the problem against TB, not being outskilled, and TB is not a "heavy" team. They just had most of theforwards committed to forechecking hard, stacking guys up, throwing good hits at the right time, wearing the D down.

We don't need a goon, but Adam McQuaid doesn't solve the actual issue, as it is not with our defense corps.

it was a pretty strong argument when the trade was made. the point remains the same though. There is value to the team in guys like Mcquaid that may never ever show up on the score card.

Its still there though.

 

[Dr Hook]

it was a pretty strong argument when the trade was made. the point remains the same though. There is value to the team in guys like Mcquaid that may never ever show up on the score card.

Its still there though.

I like Bruins d-corps a lot. I would prefer to replace what McQuaid brought in a forward if possible. McQuaid was a good defensive D-man, so equivalently would like to see a forward that can at least chip in with 10-12 goals and as many assists in a 3rd or 4th line physical role.

 

[Sheppy]

The Bruins have essentially carried a guy or two in the top 6 from 2010-2015 who were pretty physical, guys like Lucic, Horton, Iginla, etc. Now it seems like they're content not just not having a guy in the top 6, but top 9.

 

[LSCII]

no, the reality is not 'exactly' what you said. which again, makes any discussion withy you pointless.

Wagner has been mentioned, but he's ONE guy.

whether you've been pleased with his physical play, or disappointed in it, is another story.

So whom would you like to see added in?

 

[Sheppy]

I like Bruins d-corps a lot. I would prefer to replace what McQuaid brought in a forward if possible. McQuaid was a good defensive D-man, so equivalently would like to see a forward that can at least chip in with 10-12 goals and as many assists in a 3rd or 4th line physical role.

I'm with this, too. I was PISSED when they sent McQuaid away, but I understand it. I'd like to see a guy in the top 9 that can like, do something... anything physically, really.

 

[LSCII]

That was a lot of asterisks. Unlikely you’d have used so many if there were a known enforcer on the boards.

So uh, yeah. Complete avoidance of the question because you and I both know the answer. Good times...

 

[Dr Hook]

The Bruins have essentially carried a guy or two in the top 6 from 2010-2015 who were pretty physical, guys like Lucic, Horton, Iginla, etc. Now it seems like they're content not just not having a guy in the top 6, but top 9.

I know it's kind of out of fashion these days, but if in the top 9 we had a third line grind-line that could be sent out to against other teams' top or second scoring lines, that would be a good thing. It seems to me that it might be easier and more cost effective to do it that way than look for the guys like who you mentioned who are a dying breed and thus highly prized.

 

[Sheppy]

I know it's kind of out of fashion these days, but if in the top 9 we had a third line grind-line that could be sent out to against other teams' top or second scoring lines, that would be a good thing. It seems to me that it might be easier and more cost effective to do it that way than look for the guys like who you mentioned who are a dying breed and thus highly prized.

I'm completely cool with a cost effective guy on the 3rd line who can play there and move around in the lineup. I'm not asking for a Jamie Benn, but someone better than the likes of Kuraly, Wagner, Acciari, Backes and even Heinen.

 

[NeelyDan]

So uh, yeah. Complete avoidance of the question because you and I both know the answer. Good times...

You're not generally fun to discuss things with.