Post-Game Talk (GBU): The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: Foligno Hop

[Aladyyn]

I have a Twitter mention of shuffling Vesey up into the MJ line on RW as a way of trying to balance things out. I'm not adverse to sitting him. Or Sobotka. Mitts on PP2 seems like it will insulate him.

The idea of putting Mittelstadt "up" on that unit would also work if they had a passable center who wouldn't get caved in and was known for his ability to make smart plays, defend, and chip in with some quality offense somewhere.... Asplund.

Rodrigues should be able to fill that role too. We have options, that's for sure.

 

[sabrebuild]

I like Dahlin with Miller.

I'm more sold on Miller after only 3 games than all of what I saw of Montour last year

They were both available for a reason, no doubt.

But when they are the depth guys compared to Strachan or other garbage I'm grinning.

Keep them all, except Scandella, let em kumpeet!

 

[Aladyyn]

They were both available for a reason, no doubt.

But when they are the depth guys compared to Strachan or other garbage I'm grinning.

Keep them all, except Scandella, let em kumpeet!

For Miller, that reason was the salary cap

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

They were both available for a reason, no doubt.

But when they are the depth guys compared to Strachan or other garbage I'm grinning.

Keep them all, except Scandella, let em kumpeet!

Ana wanted the prospect and pick that Buffalo dangled, it also requires them to protect one less defensive piece in the expansion draft.

 

[Fezzy126]

The caving in has nothing to do with zone starts. When McCabe and Ristolainen are pressured by the forecheck they give away pucks, or just try to bank it off the boards leading to the opposing team getting position. Are they slightly better than the third pairing? Sure, but which two can fetch the most in a trade? The team has 2 out of its 4 best defensemen on IR. The best value upgrade is to trade out, or at least look who is interested in, the middle pair. If Risto sticks a bit longer and Jokiharju gets to play top minutes in the AHL, it is no huge loss.

So let me get this straight, you're saying that you think that Emil Bemstrom can forecheck and pressure the puck as well as Pierre-Luc Dubois? Because the zone start stat actually indirectly tells us which which of those players that our D pairings get to play against (we can also validate it through the TOI against stats thru NST). If you think it's the same task to exit the zone regardless of opposition I can't help you.

Mind you, I have been and will continue to be a big advocate for more balance, I want to see Dahlin-Miller share some of the load balancing here.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I think I'd try bring in Erod in for Vessey. Use either Mitts or Erod as the center and let the other play LW.

 

[joshjull]

The difference between Skinner-Johansson and Sheary-Mittelstadt is pretty big tbf.

(Not that I'm trying to defend Vesey, he's been bad)

Very true

Vesey’s hasn’t been great but he also isn’t a great fit with his current line mates either. He needs higher end offensive players to help generate his chances in and around the net off passes and rebounds. Which usually requires his linemates to be able to posses the puck for a decent amount of time in the Ozone.

Mitts/Sheary are more likely to create off the rush or quick strikes when things are going well for them (which hasn’t been often so since game one). What they’re not likely to do is Hold possession in a way to allow Vesey to get his chances in and around the ent.

My issue with Vesey up with Skinner/Mojo is it changes the dynamic of that line. The current effective version of Sobotka has essentially been an assistant center for Mojo. It lightens the center work and defensive work for Mojo. Vesey isn’t going to provide any of that. Erod certainly could.

Vesey best fit would be the top line LW spot but there is no way he should be there over Olofsson.


Finding a good fit for Vesey is a tough one.

 

[sabrebuild]

For Miller, that reason was the salary cap

That's part of the reason. My point is if he was a flawless stud Vegas would have found a lesser player to move for cap reasons.

He's not. Same with Montour. But both are excellent additions over the crap we put out for the last few years.

 

[sabrebuild]

Ana wanted the prospect and pick that Buffalo dangled, it also requires them to protect one less defensive piece in the expansion draft.

Same answer as what Aladdin got.

 

[Sabre the Win]

If we are airing grievances

I will save mine for Festivus

 

[joshjull]

I like Dahlin with Miller.

I'm more sold on Miller after only 3 games than all of what I saw of Montour last year

I agree on how well Miller has played. But in fairness to Montour he hasn’t yet played in the current system. One that seems perfectly suited to his skills.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Same answer as what Aladdin got.

There's a serious misalignment of goal posts. Miller and Montour are NHL players. They don't need to be flawless studs for someone to be happy they're on the roster. If your team is so strong at defense that you're pushing them into 7/8 roles your team is dramatically misconstructed.

 

[joshjull]

That's part of the reason. My point is if he was a flawless stud Vegas would have found a lesser player to move for cap reasons.

He's not. Same with Montour. But both are excellent additions over the crap we put out for the last few years.

That could pretty much describe how the entire Vegas team came to be. If they were flawless studs they wouldn’t have ended up in Vegas in the first place.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Thats exactly what it is.










They are simply incapable of fairly analyzing his play to date. Also snarky as hell (Not Ben really) when anyone is disagreeing with them on it.



But I’m still chuckling that Vlad has played well enough to get me to defend him. I can honestly say I did not see that coming.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Sobotka so hard. Hes playing much better this year (physically involved), but you cant deny that hes an offensive drain on the Skinner/Johansson line

 

[sabrebuild]

There's a serious misalignment of goal posts. Miller and Montour are NHL players. They don't need to be flawless studs for someone to be happy they're on the roster. If your team is so strong at defense that you're pushing them into 7/8 roles your team is dramatically misconstructed.

That could pretty much describe how the entire Vegas team came to be. If they were flawless studs they wouldn’t have ended up in Vegas in the first place.

Jj's point is exactly the point I was conveying to Beerz, who said he was more impressed with Miller so far than Montour.

In an effort to be concise, I was indicating that Miller will reveal some flaws at some point, just like Montour.

Which is not a bad thing. Just an acknowledgement that Miller will presumably irritate at some point, but both he and Montour are solid additions.

We don't need 6 perfect defensemen, we just need a complementary group to support Dahlin and Risto.

I like the group so far and am very interested to see it at full strength. A top 6 that probably doesn't have a spot for bogo.haha

 

[Steddy33]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Sobotka so hard. Hes playing much better this year (physically involved), but you cant deny that hes an offensive drain on the Skinner/Johansson line

He hasn't been the worst player on ice which is an upgrade. He hasn't even been bad really. He definitely shouldn't be on the line he is though. He doesn't kill them but he for sure doesn't have the offensive instincts or even the forecheck he once did to make a difference on that line. But they don't have anyone to replace him either. Erod should replace Vesey with Mittlestadt and Sheary. Okposo - Larsson- Girgensons has been to good to break up. No other options without a call up

 

[sabrebuild]

Its not hard to admit when a player is playing well without getting carried away. I swear it is.

I have definitely not watched each game super closely, but this seems like a weird thing to get irritated by.

Sobotka still sucks. I mean he has two good players on his line, so as a line there is more success. But he is still not good.

The only credit I would give him this year compared to last year is that he has actually moved his feet more this year and seems to give an F. Its not good for the line/roll he is on, but it could be considered slightly above replacement value as a 4th liner if he worked hard on a bottom six line.

We just have more upside options imo.

I will say, for anyone confused from the HevWho will not be named saga, the Sobotka from this first few games compared to last year is a clinic in what really mailing it in looks like.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I have definitely not watched each game super closely, but this seems like a weird thing to get irritated by.

Sobotka still sucks. I mean he has two good players on his line, so as a line there is more success. But he is still not good.

The only credit I would give him this year compared to last year is that he has actually moved his feet more this year and seems to give an F. Its not good for the line/roll he is on, but it could be considered slightly above replacement value as a 4th liner if he worked hard on a bottom six line.

We just have more upside options imo.

I will say, for anyone confused from the HevWho will not be named saga, the Sobotka from this first few games compared to last year is a clinic in what really mailing it in looks like.

I would say last season he was put into a role he was never in before and never suited for as a player. He played a mental step behind all the time...similarly to the entire D-corps with Housley's man-to-man D-zone coverage. It's another indicator of why Krueger wants a more simple style for the team to play - thinking less allows faster play. BUT...the whole team mailed it in around February, so no excuses for anybody in that regard.

 

[BFLO]

To say Sobotka is playing well is putting the bar so, so, so low. Is he playing well for who he is? Yeah. But the player he is now wouldn’t be rostered by basically any other NHL team.

He’s just a body with average away from the puck defensive positioning, and mild physicality. As soon as he’s required to touch the puck he loses any value.

Did he ever get possession of the puck and then successfully pass it to a team mate who was able to retain possession in the entire CBJ game? 99% of the time he touches the puck the possession is over.

 

[joshjull]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend Sobotka so hard. Hes playing much better this year (physically involved), but you cant deny that hes an offensive drain on the Skinner/Johansson line

Its not that I’m vigorously defending Sobotka so much as I’m vigorously countering ignorance.

Sobotka is there to help Mojo with his center/defensive duties and act as a counterbalance of sorts to Skinner. Krueger wants his higher skilled guys to feel free to be aggressive and play to their creative strengths. If we’re honest Skinner freed up has been a headache at times in our end and in the neutral zone. Krueger can live with the bad to get the good. But he has also covered himself by having two defensively responsible players with Skinner.

Sobotka’s contribution to the offense is to free up Skinner completely and Mojo somewhat so they can drive the offense of the line. To say he is a drain is completely missing why that line is constructed like it is and what his role on it is. Thats the ignorance I can’t stand and I’m countering.

I have no idea how long this current version of Sobtoka will last. But while it does I see no reason to beat up on him like many do. To me its lazy and ignorant complaining

 

[Buffaloed]

The Sabres need to request permission to wear the 50th anniversary jersey every game. The players look better, they feel better, and they have more confidence. They are dressed for success. The clothes make the man.

 

[Paxon]

For a bad game it wasn't terrible. Jackets came to play for the first time this season, which most expected. PP and Ullmark kept us in it. PP will be a top 5 unit at the end of the year.

 

[jBuds]

It was a weird one as a viewer. I never thought at any point we had a chance to win, but I didn’t think it was ever a brutal performance or one that would completely fall apart and get out of hand.

obviously interested to see how they bounce back from it...

 

[sufferer]

It was a weird one as a viewer. I never thought at any point we had a chance to win, but I didn’t think it was ever a brutal performance or one that would completely fall apart and get out of hand.

obviously interested to see how they bounce back from it...

I think it was bad enough a performance where they'll come out like gangbusters at home against a few divisional opponents, especially Eichel. I also agree in that I didn't feel like the momentum ever swung back in the Sabres' favor even after the Skinner and Olofsson goals. Torts had his club on a mission.

 

[joshjull]

I have definitely not watched each game super closely, but this seems like a weird thing to get irritated by.

Sobotka still sucks. I mean he has two good players on his line, so as a line there is more success. But he is still not good.

The only credit I would give him this year compared to last year is that he has actually moved his feet more this year and seems to give an F. Its not good for the line/roll he is on, but it could be considered slightly above replacement value as a 4th liner if he worked hard on a bottom six line.

We just have more upside options imo.

I will say, for anyone confused from the HevWho will not be named saga, the Sobotka from this first few games compared to last year is a clinic in what really mailing it in looks like.

My post you quoted was talking about it not being hard to simply say Sobotka played well (or at least solid) in the role he has been tasked with this season. That it wouldn’t kill anyone to do so, even if not a fan coming into the year. But I guess it will based on this long post telling me he sucks.

As I’v said previously, I have no idea how long this will last (his current play) but the twitter stampede for him to come out after last nights game to me was an exercise in stubborn ignorance. No one fairly evaluating this season to date would be looking anywhere but the Mitts line (including Mitts) for a forward to take out.