Post-Game Talk (GBU): The Good, the Bad and the Ugly: Foligno Hop

[hypaspazz]

Game 3 of the season was average, we steal a point, and 90% of the board goes ballistic...... Wow. If you were my boss, I would quit before you had a chance to fire me! Everyone chill out and go watch some film from the second half of last season to put things in perspective.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Game 3 of the season was average, we steal a point, and 90% of the board goes ballistic...... Wow. If you were my boss, I would quit before you had a chance to fire me! Everyone chill out and go watch some film from the second half of last season to put things in perspective.

My therapist said to never do that again.

 

[sabrebuild]

I would say last season he was put into a role he was never in before and never suited for as a player. He played a mental step behind all the time...similarly to the entire D-corps with Housley's man-to-man D-zone coverage. It's another indicator of why Krueger wants a more simple style for the team to play - thinking less allows faster play. BUT...the whole team mailed it in around February, so no excuses for anybody in that regard.

I saw the articles were he complained about his role yadda yadda yadda. To be honest I have no idea whay he is talking about.

When he was just starting, and played hard, he was a bottom six guy. Then he goes to russia, and since he was back he was bottom 6.

As far as I can tell by his career, right now is the oddest role he has had to play. Which fits in line with his skills. Legitimately bad shooter by nhl standards, average passer at best, etc.

His quitting last year was brutal. Its one thing to give up in March and take a game or two off. But he's a veteran guy with years left on a multi million dollar contract.

Hot take, but I find what Berglund did to be far more honorable, for what its worth, than Sobotka. At least Berglund did the team a favor and didn't half ass and collect his check.

I get the whole new season angle for a coach, and that needs to be uniform for everyone. But the sooner he is gone the better. As you said, we are not winning the cup this year, and he won't be here next year. So lets find out about our young guys in Rochester or keep Erod in full time. Regardless of how preseason went Erod is just straight up better and has potential.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I saw the articles were he complained about his role yadda yadda yadda. To be honest I have no idea whay he is talking about.

When he was just starting, and played hard, he was a bottom six guy. Then he goes to russia, and since he was back he was bottom 6.

As far as I can tell by his career, right now is the oddest role he has had to play. Which fits in line with his skills. Legitimately bad shooter by nhl standards, average passer at best, etc.

His quitting last year was brutal. Its one thing to give up in March and take a game or two off. But he's a veteran guy with years left on a multi million dollar contract.

Hot take, but I find what Berglund did to be far more honorable, for what its worth, than Sobotka. At least Berglund did the team a favor and didn't half ass and collect his check.

I get the whole new season angle for a coach, and that needs to be uniform for everyone. But the sooner he is gone the better. As you said, we are not winning the cup this year, and he won't be here next year. So lets find out about our young guys in Rochester or keep Erod in full time. Regardless of how preseason went Erod is just straight up better and has potential.

I'm all for Sobotka getting benched, and eventually off the team. It just doesn't have to be right now. If Rodrigues is coming in because Sheary is hurt, and Asplund, Thompson, and Smith (who I'm not sure is worth calling up at all) are better served in Rochester, with bigger/better plans on bringing them up permanently later in the season (ie, after the TDL), then Sobotka has to play somewhere in the meantime.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Krueger got out coached. It's refreshing to see him admit it.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Its not that I’m vigorously defending Sobotka so much as I’m vigorously countering ignorance.

Sobotka is there to help Mojo with his center/defensive duties and act as a counterbalance of sorts to Skinner. Krueger wants his higher skilled guys to feel free to be aggressive and play to their creative strengths. If we’re honest Skinner freed up has been a headache at times in our end and in the neutral zone. Krueger can live with the bad to get the good. But he has also covered himself by having two defensively responsible players with Skinner.

Sobotka’s contribution to the offense is to free up Skinner completely and Mojo somewhat so they can drive the offense of the line. To say he is a drain is completely missing why that line is constructed like it is and what his role on it is. Thats the ignorance I can’t stand and I’m countering.

I have no idea how long this current version of Sobtoka will last. But while it does I see no reason to beat up on him like many do. To me its lazy and ignorant complaining

Sure there's always going to be bad takes on a forum but this tone in your rebuttals of even the reasoned posts regarding Sobotka this past month aren't a great look and don't seem like you.



Sobotka has been pretty good defensively and bad offensively. He has been a drag on that line. He's been fine overall and I'm not saying to bench him right now but Sobotka's not a great fit with Skinner and the numbers back up the eye test.

 

[sabrebuild]

My post you quoted was talking about it not being hard to simply say Sobotka played well (or at least solid) in the role he has been tasked with this season. That it wouldn’t kill anyone to do so, even if not a fan coming into the year. But I guess it will based on this long post telling me he sucks.

As I’v said previously, I have no idea how long this will last (his current play) but the twitter stampede for him to come out after last nights game to me was an exercise in stubborn ignorance. No one fairly evaluating this season to date would be looking anywhere but the Mitts line (including Mitts) for a forward to take out.

Ya I find the bit about Mitts and Sobotka comparison bizarro.

Like if we graded both on how they have impacted each game, Mitts is still ahead for me. I agree he has struggled to a degree. But he is still capable and has shown real class already. Sobotka doing well is just making an occasional nice defensive play. Which is better than last year, I guess.

I just don't think the argument is very strong to say, it hurts less than something else, but it won't happen for too long hopefully and it was worse last year. Particularly when there is a better option available, forget just rearranging the lineup to take a zero percent offensive player out if scoring role.

 

[sabrebuild]

I'm all for Sobotka getting benched, and eventually off the team. It just doesn't have to be right now. If Rodrigues is coming in because Sheary is hurt, and Asplund, Thompson, and Smith (who I'm not sure is worth calling up at all) are better served in Rochester, with bigger/better plans on bringing them up permanently later in the season (ie, after the TDL), then Sobotka has to play somewhere in the meantime.

Ya I'm not pissed off anout it yet, just think it's silly if he is playing, for it to be with those two guys. I would expect everyone on the team to be a better choice than him on that line, forget about Rodriguez.

Also agree, no reason to bring anyone up from Rochester yet, just to fill that gap. To be honest, if I was GM who cleaned house for morale, Sobotka never makes it to training camp. His contract and overall suckitude probaby made a trade or buyout unpalatable. Oh well.

 

[joshjull]

Sure there's always going to be bad takes on a forum but this tone in your rebuttals of even the reasoned posts regarding Sobotka this past month aren't a great look and don't seem like you.



Sobotka has been pretty good defensively and bad offensively. He has been a drag on that line. He's been fine overall and I'm not saying to bench him right now but Sobotka's not a great fit with Skinner and the numbers back up the eye test.

That tweet is ...

A) not surprising coming from him
B) pathetically disingenuous

I can’t tell if he’s really that clueless or just doesn’t care about making a good faith argument. I’m learning towards not making a good faith argument.

Skinner/Mojo/Vlad have played 32:31mins together with a 55.77% xG.

Skinner played 2:46 away from his line mates and almost all of it with Jack (2:25). They created zero scoring chances And their xG was a dash (-). So I guess Skinner sucks and dragged Jack down. Thats how this works right?

Vlad played 4:25mins away from Skinner/Mojo. 2:12 of that was on post PP shifts with Girgs/Larsson and they ahd a 65.39% xG. The other 2 mins or so were post PK hodgepodges of various dmen and forwards coming out of the box at the end of the kill. In those 2mins is where his % of xG plummeted. Hardly fair to hold that against him.


It doesn’t take much research to make a good faith analysis. Its quite clear that wasn’t being done. A fuller analysis shows the only time Sobotka has been on the ice and we struggled has been in a very small sample size of minutes post PK. Which tells us nothing about his impact one way or another on his regular line.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Even the Presidents trophy winner each year loses a third of their games. Everyone thought we would suck because Botts didn't do roster surgery. There is literally nothing worth complaining about. Sobotka has been way better this year and while he doesn't deserve to be the RW2 him being in the bottom 6 is fine.

ERod is not some incredible player who will put us over the top. He is a decent bottom 6 guy who had played far too much last year. ERods production was inflated by getting the most ice time outside the big 3.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This game, and the success the Blue Jackets have had over Buffalo, is all because Regier passed over Foligno for Dennis farking Persson in the 2006 draft. Eichel was 9 yrs old then, and that day his OT turnover to lose the game was sealed by fate. Not his fault at all, nobody overcomes that level of bad karma.

 

[joshjull]

Ya I find the bit about Mitts and Sobotka comparison bizarro.

Like if we graded both on how they have impacted each game, Mitts is still ahead for me. I agree he has struggled to a degree. But he is still capable and has shown real class already. Sobotka doing well is just making an occasional nice defensive play. Which is better than last year, I guess.

I just don't think the argument is very strong to say, it hurts less than something else, but it won't happen for too long hopefully and it was worse last year. Particularly when there is a better option available, forget just rearranging the lineup to take a zero percent offensive player out if scoring role.

Nothing remotely bizarro about suggesting someone from the Mitts line, including Mitts, was a candidate to sit after last night.


Last nights 5v5 minutes played by each line/OZS%/xG %

Jack’s line —> 15:10/45.5%/47%
Mojo’s ——> 10:09/0%/36%
Larsson —--> 9:34/25%/93%
Mitts ———-> 7:48/60%/13%

Mitts line had by far the most favorable deployment and got absolutely buried in it.

Unlike Sobotka, I’m actually a big Mitts fan and advocate. But I try to evaluate based on what actually happens not biases. I’m not always successful but I try.

 

[joshjull]

Looking at the numbers again from last night and my god was the Mitts line horrible. I expect an uptick though with Erod on it.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I won't at all be surprised if the Mittelstadt line struggles similar to last season. It's not all on Mittelstadt, but the lack of FW depth in general (hence part of the reason why Vesey was signed). What will be interesting to see is if Krueger loads up the Johansson line and further reduces the Mittelstadt line's TOI, or if he tries to further balance it out.

Vesey-Mittelstadt-Sobotka...see if Sobotka could support Mittelstadt, but lessen role and TOI, Sheary to Johansson's RW....

or...

Rodrigues-Mittelstadt-Reinhart...bolster that line, Sheary to Eichel's RW, Vesey sits.

 

[joshjull]

 

[joshjull]

I won't at all be surprised if the Mittelstadt line struggles similar to last season. It's not all on Mittelstadt, but the lack of FW depth in general (hence part of the reason why Vesey was signed). What will be interesting to see is if Krueger loads up the Johansson line and further reduces the Mittelstadt line's TOI, or if he tries to further balance it out.

Vesey-Mittelstadt-Sobotka...see if Sobotka could support Mittelstadt, but lessen role and TOI, Sheary to Johansson's RW....

or...

Rodrigues-Mittelstadt-Reinhart...bolster that line, Sheary to Eichel's RW, Vesey sits.

I think the bolstering may came later in the season when guys come up from the Amerks. That said don’t overlook how much of a positive Erod could potentially be.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

We need a Pilut to fly a rescue mission in the next month or so.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Game 3 of the season was average, we steal a point, and 90% of the board goes ballistic...... Wow. If you were my boss, I would quit before you had a chance to fire me! Everyone chill out and go watch some film from the second half of last season to put things in perspective.

I agree- it's only one game, but it was far from average. The Jackets were the much better team last night. I'm hoping for a nice bounce back game tomorrow.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I think the bolstering may came later in the season when guys come up from the Amerks. That said don’t overlook how much of a positive Erod could potentially be.

Yeah I hope he can fill in well for Sheary, and maybe make Sheary-Mittelstadt-Rodrigues line a decent temporary solution when everyone gets healthy.

 

[joshjull]

Yeah I hope he can fill in well for Sheary, and maybe make Sheary-Mittelstadt-Rodrigues line a decent temporary solution when everyone gets healthy.

The thing I like with Erod there is he can take some of the burden off Mitts for the center and defensive responsibilities. Mitts certainly could use the help and Sheary/Vesey don’t really have that skill set.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The thing I like with Erod there is he can take some of the burden off Mitts for the center and defensive responsibilities. Mitts certainly could use the help and Sheary/Vesey don’t really have that skill set.

Yes agree. Funny how Johansson is getting this support via Sobotka (for what that's worth), yet Mittelstadt is not.

 

[joshjull]

Yes agree. Funny how Johansson is getting this support via Sobotka (for what that's worth), yet Mittelstadt is not.

I don’t think they have enough guys to do it to be honest. Every line but Mitts had a winger that can provide that support. Sam,Vlad and Girgs. Now they all do with Erod with Mitts.

Before his preseason struggles I thought it was going to be Erod with Mojo in that role.

 

[sabrebuild]

Nothing remotely bizarro about suggesting someone from the Mitts line, including Mitts, was a candidate to sit after last night.


Last nights 5v5 minutes played by each line/OZS%/xG %

Jack’s line —> 15:10/45.5%/47%
Mojo’s ——> 10:09/0%/36%
Larsson —--> 9:34/25%/93%
Mitts ———-> 7:48/60%/13%

Mitts line had by far the most favorable deployment and got absolutely buried in it.

Unlike Sobotka, I’m actually a big Mitts fan and advocate. But I try to evaluate based on what actually happens not biases. I’m not always successful but I try.

I'm not sure what those line stats say about individual play.

I suspect if you switch mitts and sobotka, the current Mitts line would suffer more and Mitts would improve the Marjo line.

I don't think your biased against Mitts for thinking he played a bad game. Hell I thought that most of last season.

I think the bias is surrounding Sobotka and a variety of reasons that don't relate to puck.

Short term, long term viability, Sobotka is an odd choice. Offensive upside, Sobotka is an odd choice. Previous history minus apparently training camp, not exactly in Sobotka's favor.

It's not a huge concern today, but I don't really see the logic of the decision, beyond an extremely superficial nod to the "clean slate"model.

 

[wunderpanda]

It was crap the way Jack was bumped off the puck in OT. Made me think about Ronnie Harmon -.-