The golden age of Finnish hockey.

[Erikfromfin]

Tuomo can still play specially if not forced on line with Mikko anymore. World Cup in small ice Ruutu can be effective 4thliner or extra forward and he always brings good spirit to the team and experience cannot be underestimated specially when our team will be younger.

 

[FiLe]

Tuomo can still play specially if not forced on line with Mikko anymore. World Cup in small ice Ruutu can be effective 4thliner or extra forward and he always brings good spirit to the team and experience cannot be underestimated specially when our team will be younger.

With Granlund, Barkov, Teräväinen and Lehterä in the mix, it's not a guarantee that Koivu is a top line shoo-in either. So one might still see Tuomo placed right alongside his BFF, just in a more defensive role...

 

[Gaps]

With Granlund, Barkov, Teräväinen and Lehterä in the mix, it's not a guarantee that Koivu is a top line shoo-in either. So one might still see Tuomo placed right alongside his BFF, just in a more defensive role...

I think it's highly likely that at least 2 of the ones you mentioned will not play center at all. Barkov will play center, but he's the only guarantee. Unless of course we have a sudden surge of great NHL caliber wingers.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

I would argue that Ruutu and Pitkänen did reach 1st round potential for a while, but injuries have seriously hampered both of them. I guess if you take their exact draft positions into account you can still consider them as busts, but still hardly comparable to Jani Rita.

Pitkänen is most likely done for good and I don't see Tuomo lasting very long. I'd say his odds of being on the World Cup team in 2016 are about 50/50 now.

Ruutu did, in the World Cup of Hockey - uuh, 2002? He was our best forward. Shoulder injuries did him in and he started to be more careful, became a shadow of what he promised to be. SM-Liiga knee injuries didn't help either.

but at his peak he was a world beater, it was just a short peak.

 

[FiLe]

I think it's highly likely that at least 2 of the ones you mentioned will not play center at all. Barkov will play center, but he's the only guarantee. Unless of course we have a sudden surge of great NHL caliber wingers.

Apart from them, we also have Filppula... and potentially Kontiola and MaG too, if one gets his NA game going and other breaks the Flames lineup. It's kinda silly, actually.

That being said, while Barkov is the only guaranteed centre, I fully expect at least one of those others to play the slot as well. Which one, guess it depends on the coaches' tastes. That means the Kaptain's down for 3rd line duty.


I currently have our projected 2016 lineup pegged as follows...

Teräväinen - Barkov - Jokinen
Lehterä - Mi.Granlund - X
Filppula - Koivu - Ruutu
Komarov - Haula - Korpikoski

I left that 2nd line right wing open for that elusive "scorer type" I hope will have emerged by then. If none of the NHL hopefuls answer the call, perhaps there's someone who has distinguished himself in Europe through NT play. I know I don't like the balance of that line if I have stuff a grinder (Bergenheim?) or one of those leftover playmakers in there.

But we'll see. Plenty can happen. Or nothing at all.

Ruutu did, in the World Cup of Hockey - uuh, 2002?

2004. You could have just googled that, you know. Takes like ten seconds.

 

[Gaps]

Apart from them, we also have Filppula... and potentially Kontiola and MaG too, if one gets his NA game going and other breaks the Flames lineup. It's kinda silly, actually.

That being said, while Barkov is the only guaranteed centre, I fully expect at least one of those others to play the slot as well. Which one, guess it depends on the coaches' tastes. That means the Kaptain's down for 3rd line duty.


I currently have our projected 2016 lineup pegged as follows...

Teräväinen - Barkov - Jokinen
Lehterä - Mi.Granlund - X
Filppula - Koivu - Ruutu
Komarov - Haula - Korpikoski

I left that 2nd line right wing open for that elusive "scorer type" I hope will have emerged by then. If none of the NHL hopefuls answer the call, perhaps there's someone who has distinguished himself in Europe through NT play. I know I don't like the balance of that line if I have stuff a grinder (Bergenheim?) or one of those leftover playmakers in there.

But we'll see. Plenty can happen. Or nothing at all.

Then there's also OJ who has threatened to keep on playing for a few more years. Whether he will still be deserving of a spot is of course a question mark, a bit similar to Tuomo. It's hard to see him being snubbed though if he's still in the NHL. For now I've still got him in my scenarios, not that I particularly like having him there, but as things stand now I can't leave him out just yet. In your projected lineup he would bump Haula to wing IMO. That would bring us to 3 surefire centers in Koivu, Barkov and OJ. The 4th one could certainly be someone like Lehterä. For now I see Kontiola being an extra at best, along with JMA (who I would leave at home entirely).

I'm aware that 'who plays center and who doesn't' will be one of our most heavily discussed topics concerning this tournament, but right now the situation is still that we lack wingers more than centers. So for now the only ones who play center for sure are the ones who can't really be used at wing.

I also think that your '3rd line' would actually still be called the 1st line in 2016. A little bit like OJ was the '2nd line' center for Erkka.

So as you can see, I'm one of the people who don't expect a lot to change in 2 years. I'm not particularly excited at the prospect, but I wouldn't be surprised if the defense corps in this tournament consisted of Vatanen, Määttä, Ristolainen, Kukkonen, Väänänen, Hietanen and Lepistö.

 

[FiLe]

Then there's also OJ who has threatened to keep on playing for a few more years. Whether he will still be deserving of a spot is of course a question mark, a bit similar to Tuomo. It's hard to see him being snubbed though if he's still in the NHL. For now I've still got him in my scenarios, not that I particularly like having him there, but as things stand now I can't leave him out just yet. In your projected lineup he would bump Haula to wing IMO. That would bring us to 3 surefire centers in Koivu, Barkov and OJ. The 4th one could certainly be someone like Lehterä. For now I see Kontiola being an extra at best, along with JMA (who I would leave at home entirely).

OJ ranks, true. But last season he was collecting plenty of brownie points due to his familiarity with Erkka.

My lineup pretty much depends on a suitable winger or two popping up in the next two years. I'm fully aware that if this does not come to pass, it will look plenty different with a natural playmaker or two being converted into a scoring role. Also I'm a bit iffy concerning those European scorers. World Cup is a small ice tournament so I don't think either that JMA would be a good match even if he's still our ranking top-six winger at the time. Salminen could fit. Or perhaps there's a late bloomer who's still mostly under the radar. Such off-the-books example could be Kai Kantola, for one (and no, I don't mean he will turn into one for sure).

But if the youngsters deliver, then I don't see plenty incentive for the new management to cling onto OJ just because.

So as you can see, I'm one of the people who don't expect a lot to change in 2 years. I'm not particularly excited at the prospect, but I wouldn't be surprised if the defense corps in this tournament consisted of Vatanen, Määttä, Ristolainen, Kukkonen, Väänänen, Hietanen and Lepistö.

I can't say your pessimism is unfounded. Still, it looks like apart from the Määttä, Vatanen and Ristolainen we also have Lindbohm and Jokipakka on the verge of a breakthrough. They'd be great fits to the bottom pairs.

If things pan out, we'd have at least seven regular d-men in the NHL by 2016: Määttä, Vatanen, Ristolainen, Pokka, Jokipakka, Lindbohm and Honka. But again, I'm fully aware that plenty can go awry. Also, even if we have 'em all, it's still no guarantee all of 'em make it. Because while it would give us a defense fully made of NHL regulars, it would also give us an overwhelmingly young defense. No player in it would be even 25 years of age - save for Vatanen, barely. So even in the best case scenario, seeing one or two European vets added "for experience" would not surprise me.

 

[rduck1]

There are also younger defensemen playing in Europe such as Melart and Ohtamaa. Also, even if we end up with a very pass-first group of forwards it shouldn't be a disaster. We haven't really had a top-class sniper in a while and we've done pretty well, so now that other roles look improved it shouldn't be any different.

 

[Gaps]

OJ ranks, true. But last season he was collecting plenty of brownie points due to his familiarity with Erkka.

My lineup pretty much depends on a suitable winger or two popping up in the next two years. I'm fully aware that if this does not come to pass, it will look plenty different with a natural playmaker or two being converted into a scoring role. Also I'm a bit iffy concerning those European scorers. World Cup is a small ice tournament so I don't think either that JMA would be a good match even if he's still our ranking top-six winger at the time. Salminen could fit. Or perhaps there's a late bloomer who's still mostly under the radar. Such off-the-books example could be Kai Kantola, for one (and no, I don't mean he will turn into one for sure).

But if the youngsters deliver, then I don't see plenty incentive for the new management to cling onto OJ just because.

I agree on the bolded. I would be extremely careful picking any players who have little to no NA experience under their belts. It remains to be seen how high K. Jalonen ranks them. J. Jalonen would rather pick Euro scorers than youngsters playing in NA and I think Erkka would too. It wouldn't be all that big of a surprise if K. Jalonen went the same way as them.

I can't say your pessimism is unfounded. Still, it looks like apart from the Määttä, Vatanen and Ristolainen we also have Lindbohm and Jokipakka on the verge of a breakthrough. They'd be great fits to the bottom pairs.

If things pan out, we'd have at least seven regular d-men in the NHL by 2016: Määttä, Vatanen, Ristolainen, Pokka, Jokipakka, Lindbohm and Honka. But again, I'm fully aware that plenty can go awry. Also, even if we have 'em all, it's still no guarantee all of 'em make it. Because while it would give us a defense fully made of NHL regulars, it would also give us an overwhelmingly young defense. No player in it would be even 25 years of age - save for Vatanen, barely. So even in the best case scenario, seeing one or two European vets added "for experience" would not surprise me.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if guys like Lindbohm, Jokipakka & co got some NHL games by then, or even if one or two took a regular bottom pairing spot. However, bottom pairing guys like them would be the easiest to replace with veterans like Kukkonen and Väänänen.

If Honka and Pokka pan out by then, all the better. The bolded part would still remain the biggest issue. Even if we had 6+ regular NHL dmen, it's not all that likely that all would get picked due to the lack of experience. I don't see any of our most experienced coaches icing a backend that young regardless of skill. A healthy Pitkänen despite his flaws would have been by far the best and easiest solution to this, but no can do.

 

[FiLe]

I agree on the bolded. I would be extremely careful picking any players who have little to no NA experience under their belts. It remains to be seen how high K. Jalonen ranks them. J. Jalonen would rather pick Euro scorers than youngsters playing in NA and I think Erkka would too. It wouldn't be all that big of a surprise if K. Jalonen went the same way as them.

If we have one of Pulkkinen/Armia/Kapanen/Keränen as a NHL regular by then, they should be a shoo-in into the slot I left open. If not, but we do have someone who's Europe-based but has ripped it up in the next two WHCs, I guess I wouldn't blame the coach for putting some faith in him. My only fear is that he puts faith in such a player regardless of the youngsters panning out.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if guys like Lindbohm, Jokipakka & co got some NHL games by then, or even if one or two took a regular bottom pairing spot. However, bottom pairing guys like them would be the easiest to replace with veterans like Kukkonen and Väänänen.

If Honka and Pokka pan out by then, all the better. The bolded part would still remain the biggest issue. Even if we had 6+ regular NHL dmen, it's not all that likely that all would get picked due to the lack of experience. I don't see any of our most experienced coaches icing a backend that young regardless of skill. A healthy Pitkänen despite his flaws would have been by far the best and easiest solution to this, but no can do.

I don't think any coach can overlook an NHL regular d-man. Even Erkka couldn't, although I can imagine him being extremely tempted to snub Määttä in favor of Nummelin.

Speaking about Määttä, he represents a player type of which we don't currently have others on the verge of breakthrough - a left-hooked OD. A squad should traditionally have at least two for those special teams. RDs we have galore in the form of Vatanen, Ristolainen, Pokka and Honka. Pitkänen indeed would have been the optimal solution to plug that hole. So I think the first in line from Europe in such a case will actually be Lepistö. Whether he's enough to cover that experience factor or shall Lindbohm/Jokipakka (if they break) be replaced in favor of Kukkonen, Väänänen or such is anybody's guess though.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Just for comparison sake again. Very similiar to Files lineup and heavily focused on youth improvement and North american focus team prediction for me would be at this point.

Mikael Granlund - Aleksander Barkov - Jussi Jokinen
Jori Lehterä - Valtteri Filppula - Teuvo Teräväinen
Tuomo Ruutu - Mikko Koivu - Kasperi Kapanen
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Lauri Korpikoski
Markus Granlund
Sean Bergenheim

Olli Määttä - Sami Vatanen
Sami Lepistö - Rasmus Ristolainen
Petteri Lindbohm - Juuso Hietanen
Jyrki Jokipakka - Joonas Järvinen

Tuukka Rask
Pekka Rinne
Antti Raanta

 

[FiLe]

Mikael Granlund - Aleksander Barkov - Jussi Jokinen
Jori Lehterä - Valtteri Filppula - Teuvo Teräväinen
Tuomo Ruutu - Mikko Koivu - Kasperi Kapanen
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Lauri Korpikoski
Markus Granlund
Sean Bergenheim

Three puck-movers in a line with little finish does not imply a highly refined understanding of roling and line balance. Especially since you do have Kapanen in the lineup, who's the very solution to that issue if he pans out.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Three puck-movers in a line with little finish does not imply a highly refined understanding of roling and line balance. Especially since you do have Kapanen in the lineup, who's the very solution to that issue if he pans out.

Yea im not ice hockey coach which im sure you are. I feel that line could make more than enough plays and hold the puck. You are underestimating finishing abilities of those players even thou none of them is sniper type. Kasperi would bring speed to that third line and at that point Kasperi would have had maximum 1 full season in NHL im not sure he would be ready as primetime scorer but would compliment Tuomo and Mikko well.

Just saw news Lindbohm might make his NHL debut tonight

 

[FiLe]

Yea im not ice hockey coach which im sure you are. I feel that line could make more than enough plays and hold the puck. You are underestimating finishing abilities of those players even thou none of them is sniper type.

Not underestimating, just saying that a player always plays slightly worse out of his comfort zone. A practical example: Remember that EHT game from last spring where Teräväinen played in a line with Lehterä and Kontiola? It was this, so much. As I recall, you even defended Erkka after the decision to snub TT, as said game proved that there's no room for Teräväinen because he can't play wing in a situation like that.

Of course, skill is a big factor and even a disjointed line is better than a dysfunctional one. However, one should not make a disjointed line if it's possible to put it in balance with minor roster moves. You provide all the necessary tools to make a healthy unit in your fantasy lineup, but then mess it up by putting it together wrong.

Kasperi would bring speed to that third line and at that point Kasperi would have had maximum 1 full season in NHL im not sure he would be ready as primetime scorer but would compliment Tuomo and Mikko well.

C'mon, use your gray matter a little. The Pens won't take Kapanen in full time 'til he's ready to be a top-six player for them. If that happens next season, good. That also means by the summer of 2016 he's had one full season of NHL hockey beyond him... playing next to either Malkin or Crosby. I'd say that more than qualifies him for top-six duty in the Finnish national team.

 

[Jussi]

2004. You could have just googled that, you know. Takes like ten seconds.

Dude, HFBoards posters are not supposed to use google. They're supposed to ask for everything in here. Google or search are not recognized concepts here.

 

[Jussi]

Just for comparison sake again. Very similiar to Files lineup and heavily focused on youth improvement and North american focus team prediction for me would be at this point.

Mikael Granlund - Aleksander Barkov - Jussi Jokinen
Jori Lehterä - Valtteri Filppula - Teuvo Teräväinen
Tuomo Ruutu - Mikko Koivu - Kasperi Kapanen
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Lauri Korpikoski
Markus Granlund
Sean Bergenheim

Olli Määttä - Sami Vatanen
Sami Lepistö - Rasmus Ristolainen
Petteri Lindbohm - Juuso Hietanen
Jyrki Jokipakka - Joonas Järvinen

Tuukka Rask
Pekka Rinne
Antti Raanta

Softest line ever.

 

[Needles]

Very similiar to Files lineup and heavily focused on youth improvement and North american focus team prediction for me would be at this point.

Here's my take. Tuomo might be done within two years and our defense is full of babyfaces.

Jussi Jokinen - Aleksander Barkov - Teemu Pulkkinen
Mikael Granlund - Mikko Koivu - Valtteri Filppula
Sean Bergenheim - Jori Lehterä - Lauri Korpikoski
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Antti Pihlström
Teuvo Teräväinen
Kasperi Kapanen/Joel Armia

Olli Määttä - Sami Vatanen
Sami Lepistö - Rasmus Ristolainen
Petteri Lindbohm - Julius Honka
Joonas Järvinen - Ville Pokka
Esa Lindell
Ilari Melart

Tuukka Rask
Pekka Rinne
Antti Niemi

 

[Erikfromfin]

Softest line ever.

hm..? not sure if sarcasm... could you elaborate

 

[rduck1]

Teemu Hartikainen - Jarno Koskiranta - Antti Pihlström
Veli-Matti Savinainen - Petteri Wirtanen - Oskar Osala
Mika Pyörälä - Petteri Nokelainen - Tommi Huhtala
Jere Sallinen - Tomi Sallinen - Ilkka Pikkarainen
Jonne Virtanen

Atte Ohtamaa - Joonas Järvinen
Ilari Melart - Ossi Väänänen
Lasse Kukkonen - Topi Jaakola
Janne Jalasvaara - Jyri Marttinen
Markus Kankaanperä

Tuukka Rask
Pekka Rinne
Kari Lehtonen

 

[Jussi]

hm..? not sure if sarcasm... could you elaborate

You have a bunch of passers and playmakers on one line, really bad role placement.

 

[Erikfromfin]

You have a bunch of passers and playmakers on one line, really bad role placement.

Jea because we Finns are loaded with snipers.

 

[FiLe]

Jussi Jokinen - Aleksander Barkov - Teemu Pulkkinen
Mikael Granlund - Mikko Koivu - Valtteri Filppula
Sean Bergenheim - Jori Lehterä - Lauri Korpikoski
Leo Komarov - Erik Haula - Antti Pihlström
Teuvo Teräväinen
Kasperi Kapanen/Joel Armia

This line suffers a bit from the same issue Jussi and I pointed out with Erikfromfin's lineup. Koivu is a little better as a balancing act, but that's still three players with pass-first mentality. What you need to do is swap Granlund and Jokinen around.

Jea because we Finns are loaded with snipers.

Yet, you have the necessary one in your lineup to make four balanced lines. For a reason incomprehensible, you just chose not to.

 

[FiLe]

Teemu Hartikainen - Jarno Koskiranta - Antti Pihlström
Veli-Matti Savinainen - Petteri Wirtanen - Oskar Osala
Mika Pyörälä - Petteri Nokelainen - Tommi Huhtala
Jere Sallinen - Tomi Sallinen - Ilkka Pikkarainen
Jonne Virtanen

Atte Ohtamaa - Joonas Järvinen
Ilari Melart - Ossi Väänänen
Lasse Kukkonen - Topi Jaakola
Janne Jalasvaara - Jyri Marttinen
Markus Kankaanperä

Tuukka Rask
Pekka Rinne
Kari Lehtonen

Hahahaha... Team Grindland.


Yet, it's somewhat surprisingly a functional team. No one could expect it to score a ton, but there are no outstanding issues with line balancing.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'll be screaming blue murder if we ever really see a squad like that, even on WHC level (and I'm tempted to joke that we already did), but from a purely technical POV... that's textbook.

 

[Needles]

This line suffers a bit from the same issue Jussi and I pointed out with Erikfromfin's lineup. Koivu is a little better as a balancing act, but that's still three players with pass-first mentality. What you need to do is swap Granlund and Jokinen around.

I know something else that has issues.

 

[FiLe]

I know something else that has issues.

Heh. People violating the logics of line-building would not bother me as much if they weren't so friggin' simple - especially in fantasy. It's like, what, two or three brief rules of thumb that have been proven right in practice countless of times. Yet people violate 'em again and again.

It does become harder in reality of course when one may not have players of a suitable type - at least with desirable level of skill - which can lead to making compromises. But when you have every eligible name available, these squads should more or less build themselves. Yet one sees the battiest of combos being suggested time and again.

If this was a matter that required years of study and dedication to understand, I'd actually be more willing to give people a pass and save 'em the lecture. But no, this is something any one of us could grasp in a single afternoon. Why they don't and yet bother to call themselves fans of the game is beyond me.