The Goalie Discussion

[The Old Master]

or it could be because of hear say/ past scouting teams are shooting more at the high glove side so there are more goals being scored there. and it's only reinforcing the belief that its his weak spot.
edit; there was a goalie i played against that was on the small side. so it was no secret that you needed to go high on him. but every time i skated in on him, he would flash me the five hole and of course that's where i would go. only to see it close just as i released it. i guess there were reasons i was always played dee. so if a goalie knows where you are going to shoot...... advantage goalie.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I do think part of the dislike of many casuals on Murray is due to his glove hand. Think about it - catching is an instinctive thing, even if they never played goalie they are Americans they played baseball/football or whatever. On goalie highlights we are disproportionately shown "flashing the leather."

I think Murray is amazing positionally and great at using his pads. But people have a visceral reaction to the glove hand.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I do think part of the dislike of many casuals on Murray is due to his glove hand. Think about it - catching is an instinctive thing, even if they never played goalie they are Americans they played baseball/football or whatever. On goalie highlights we are disproportionately shown "flashing the leather."

I think Murray is amazing positionally and great at using his pads. But people have a visceral reaction to the glove hand.

I think many casual fans dislike Murray because his success forced the removal of a fan favorite, and they've heard someone criticize his glove hand, so they seize on that as a reason to justify their dislike.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think many casual fans dislike Murray because his success forced the removal of a fan favorite, and they've heard someone criticize his glove hand, so they seize on that as a reason to justify their dislike.

Oh for sure the Fleury stuff is related. Fleury was also an extremely flashy goaltender. Including flashes of abject failure.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Oh for sure the Fleury stuff is related. Fleury was also an extremely flashy goaltender. Including flashes of abject failure.

Yeah, that's a good point too. I think fans got used to Fleury's style, so when they see something different they think it's worse. I remember reading a fan say on Facebook during Murray's playoff runs that he wasn't actually a good goaltender, he just stood there and let the puck hit him. Yeah, man, that's called positioning.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, that's a good point too. I think fans got used to Fleury's style, so when they see something different they think it's worse. I remember reading a fan say on Facebook during Murray's playoff runs that he wasn't actually a good goaltender, he just stood there and let the puck hit him. Yeah, man, that's called positioning.

That's what I mean though. Positioning-based quality just turns people off. Kind of like how everyone thinks ZAR is an AHLer even though his defensive positioning is elite.

 

[jr99svt]

So just picked a couple random Goals of the Week and Saves of the Week youtube comps....

Sooooo....

Every goalie is weak up top. It is why guys are targeting there. It may be MM's weakest point, but, it isn't much better for anyone.

and it's only reinforcing the belief that its his weak spot.

I do think part of the dislike of many casuals on Murray is due to his glove hand.

I think many casual fans dislike Murray because his success forced the removal of a fan favorite, and they've heard someone criticize his glove hand,

Im not a casual Fan, and i dont dislike Murray. It is not a perceived weakness, it is his weakness. we aren't talking about all NHL goalies, and last i checked, MAF plays for someone else. Id prefer that MM picks up his glove hand play, so its not his weakness. or give Jarry the net until he falters or MM fixes the issue. Quick search showed me this. yea, i know they aren't current, but its not a media narrative.



And for comparison, an elite goalie

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

That's what I mean though. Positioning-based quality just turns people off. Kind of like how everyone thinks ZAR is an AHLer even though his defensive positioning is elite.

Funny, I just came across this pic in my FB goalie group

 

[ChaosAgent]

Im not a casual Fan, and i dont dislike Murray. It is not a perceived weakness, it is his weakness. we aren't talking about all NHL goalies, and last i checked, MAF plays for someone else. Id prefer that MM picks up his glove hand play, so its not his weakness. or give Jarry the net until he falters or MM fixes the issue. Quick search showed me this. yea, i know they aren't current, but its not a media narrative.



And for comparison, an elite goalie

Great post. Will get buried because of prevailing sentiment here. The rest of Murray's game is very good but the glove is an issue.

 

[Gurglesons]

Im not a casual Fan, and i dont dislike Murray. It is not a perceived weakness, it is his weakness. we aren't talking about all NHL goalies, and last i checked, MAF plays for someone else. Id prefer that MM picks up his glove hand play, so its not his weakness. or give Jarry the net until he falters or MM fixes the issue. Quick search showed me this. yea, i know they aren't current, but its not a media narrative.



And for comparison, an elite goalie

Elite goalie:

Low blocker: Last season, Holtby's highest goal totals were high to the glove side (23 percent) but this year the biggest number was the 18 goals scored low to his blocker side.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Im not a casual Fan, and i dont dislike Murray. It is not a perceived weakness, it is his weakness. we aren't talking about all NHL goalies, and last i checked, MAF plays for someone else. Id prefer that MM picks up his glove hand play, so its not his weakness. or give Jarry the net until he falters or MM fixes the issue. Quick search showed me this. yea, i know they aren't current, but its not a media narrative.



And for comparison, an elite goalie

I like your first image because it compares goalies league wide.
Your 2nd image with Holtby isn't a good reference point because he plays a flat out different style than MM. Heck their ages alone can tell you that they were coached differently
Plus that season was very much an anomaly for him as that was the first time he ever struggled in the RS

I think MM's arms aren't very strong and therefore can't keep his hand up when butterflying. Could also he needs to try a different model glove with a different pocket/strapping.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

So, Murray getting the second game in a row tonight. Maybe with Dumo/Marino back, Jarry’s puck handling advantage is minimized?

 

[Flying Dego]

So, Murray getting the second game in a row tonight. Maybe with Dumo/Marino back, Jarry’s puck handling advantage is minimized?

If Sully does bar TJ from playing and we don't get to see him come playoff time. Murray will love his off-season:

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Im not a casual Fan, and i dont dislike Murray. It is not a perceived weakness, it is his weakness. we aren't talking about all NHL goalies, and last i checked, MAF plays for someone else. Id prefer that MM picks up his glove hand play, so its not his weakness. or give Jarry the net until he falters or MM fixes the issue. Quick search showed me this. yea, i know they aren't current, but its not a media narrative.



And for comparison, an elite goalie

All this post shows is that Murray let in more goals high glove earlier in his career (none of your stats are recent). It doesn't prove, as you claimed in your initial post, that Murray hasn't worked on his glove hand. I too would like to have a goalie with no weaknesses whatsoever, but it just isn't possible. Goalies that are good on the glove side have problems elsewhere.

 

[jr99svt]

All this post shows is that Murray let in more goals high glove earlier in his career (none of your stats are recent). It doesn't prove, as you claimed in your initial post, that Murray hasn't worked on his glove hand. I too would like to have a goalie with no weaknesses whatsoever, but it just isn't possible. Goalies that are good on the glove side have problems elsewhere.

I cant find any recent graphs that say it has or has not improved, Im not an advanced stat nerd, i just like watching Hockey. It just that it seems every game he plays, that i watch, he gets beat Glove/ high glove. No goalie is perfect, everyone has flaws. I know this, im not 12. I didnt say he hasnt worked on it, only that the eye test, to me says that it hasn't improved. Ill be more than happy to say Im wrong, show me some stats or graphs. Glove hand seems to me to be a hand/eye coordination thing, one that can be worked on. Jarry doesnt seem to have this issue.

 

[jr99svt]

And Buffalo Scores Shorthanded, Glove Side on Murray.....

 

[Jacob]

I don’t really think you need a designated starter in the playoffs. Just ride the hot hand and play who wins.

 

[EightyOne]

Im not a casual Fan, and i dont dislike Murray. It is not a perceived weakness, it is his weakness. we aren't talking about all NHL goalies, and last i checked, MAF plays for someone else. Id prefer that MM picks up his glove hand play, so its not his weakness. or give Jarry the net until he falters or MM fixes the issue. Quick search showed me this. yea, i know they aren't current, but its not a media narrative.



And for comparison, an elite goalie

You got a similar graphic for Jarry?

 

[Bowski]

And Buffalo Scores Shorthanded, Glove Side on Murray.....

5 goals against and a .808 SV% last time we played them homeslice.
Maybe study the blocker side on that one professor, not tonight's goaltending masterpiece that I'm sure you're crying over.
FFS, guy reverses a 6 game regulation loss skid with two wins in a row, and the mouthbreathers are still focused on his glove hand. Such a miserable existence that must be.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Murray was great tonight.

I favor Jarry generally (mostly I'm just rooting for us to not pay big money to a goalie) but Murray's play tonight won me over to where I'll live with him becoming the de-facto #1 again.

 

[jr99svt]

You got a similar graphic for Jarry?

from 2016? no. as i said in another post, after more searching thats all i found

 

[ChaosAgent]

5 goals against and a .808 SV% last time we played them homeslice.
Maybe study the blocker side on that one professor, not tonight's goaltending masterpiece that I'm sure you're crying over.
FFS, guy reverses a 6 game regulation loss skid with two wins in a row, and the mouthbreathers are still focused on his glove hand. Such a miserable existence that must be.

The glove hand is a weakness. He's a good goalie with a weakness. It happens. He was great yesterday.

People on this board really have collective PTSD about arguing Murray-Fleury and have a Rorschach reaction to Jarry where he becomes Fleury redux. I get it. There are huge segments of the Pens fanbase that are insufferable about Fleury. But try to evaluate TJ & MM separately from MAF and it'll make you far saner.

 

[Louis Hensler]

Was the dumping of Kahun (an RFA) for two lesser players, one of whom is an RFA who can be signed for less than Kahun, and the other of whom is a UFA who probably will be allowed to walk, a signal that GMJR plans to try to keep both goalies? I have trouble understanding that trade as anything other than an anticipatory salary dump.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Was the dumping of Kahun (an RFA) for two lesser players, one of whom is an RFA who can be signed for less than Kahun, and the other of whom is a UFA who probably will be allowed to walk, a signal that GMJR plans to try to keep both goalies? I have trouble understanding that trade as anything other than an anticipatory salary dump.

Nah. It was a "reclaim the magic" trade with Sheary. Full stop.

They coulda gotten more value for Kahun this summer if they wanted to.

 

[Louis Hensler]

Nah. It was a "reclaim the magic" trade with Sheary. Full stop.

They coulda gotten more value for Kahun this summer if they wanted to.

Seems like a dumb trade then -- you can never go back home.