The Goalie Discussion
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ziggyjoe212
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- Oct 2, 2017
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I don't think there's a discussion at all. Sullivan will play whoever is hot, just like he always does. It looks like MM is close to being back to normal so it'll likely become a 50/50 situation.
SouthGeorge
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- May 2, 2018
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Goalie is so important. You have to keep both; MM and Jarry until off-season. Plus, the value for MM right now seems criminally low. Ride them both in playoffs and evaluate in off-season. MM could raise stock and I wouldn't be opposed to moving him if Jarry keeps form.
I give the edge to Jarry because he is much better at handling the puck
K Fleur
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Gurglesons
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LOGiK
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What is the board consensus on the Jarry - Murray situation?
There should be a poll attached to this thread. Put me on team Jarry.
I said it before, but i'll put it in the appropriate thread. I'm all for sailing with Murray, but after this season. If you have a 1a/b goalie situation that allows a team to roll two really good goaltenders 50/50 (or 80/20 or 90/10 or whatever if they other one is on a snide) that allows for rested goaltenders I am all for it.
Also, like @varano said, I think we should keep him all year and try to qualify him and see if he will take 4 or whatever his lowest bid is and if not, sail.
I refuse to pay over 5 million for a goalie not named Belfour, Brodeur, Hasek or Roy.
I know he's in the shadows and I'm not sure if he ever found his passport, but we have CDM wandering around the AHL - a viable NHL backup netminder.
There should be a poll attached to this thread. Put me on team Jarry.
I said it before, but i'll put it in the appropriate thread. I'm all for sailing with Murray, but after this season. If you have a 1a/b goalie situation that allows a team to roll two really good goaltenders 50/50 (or 80/20 or 90/10 or whatever if they other one is on a snide) that allows for rested goaltenders I am all for it.
Also, like @varano said, I think we should keep him all year and try to qualify him and see if he will take 4 or whatever his lowest bid is and if not, sail.
I refuse to pay over 5 million for a goalie not named Belfour, Brodeur, Hasek or Roy.
I know he's in the shadows and I'm not sure if he ever found his passport, but we have CDM wandering around the AHL - a viable NHL backup netminder.
LOGiK
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Anyone see this article from 2017?
Top 10 NHL Goaltenders
Here is #4 from the top 10 goalie list of 2017:
4. Matt Murray, Pittsburgh Penguins
In two NHL seasons, Murray has already become an elite goalie. He has won the Stanley Cup twice, the only player in NHL history to do that as a rookie. He went 32-10-4 with a 2.41 GAA, .923 save percentage and four shutouts last season, and for NHL his career is 41-12-5 with a 2.32 GAA, .925 save percentage and five shutouts in 62 regular-season games.
"He doesn't chase the game around," Weekes said. "He's very calm in the net. He'll make you make the first mistake and make the first move, typically before he will. Now we've just got to see it for the whole year now that the net is his. There's no Marc-Andre Fleury behind you. We know this guy has the pedigree."
After becoming the fourth rookie to win 15 games in a single Stanley Cup Playoff season, going 15-6-0 with a 2.08 GAA and .923 save percentage in the 2016 postseason, Murray did even better last season, going 7-3-0 with a 1.70 GAA, .937 save percentage and three shutouts in the playoffs. The 23-year-old finished fourth last season in voting for the Calder Trophy, awarded to the rookie of the year.
Top 10 NHL Goaltenders
Here is #4 from the top 10 goalie list of 2017:
4. Matt Murray, Pittsburgh Penguins
In two NHL seasons, Murray has already become an elite goalie. He has won the Stanley Cup twice, the only player in NHL history to do that as a rookie. He went 32-10-4 with a 2.41 GAA, .923 save percentage and four shutouts last season, and for NHL his career is 41-12-5 with a 2.32 GAA, .925 save percentage and five shutouts in 62 regular-season games.
"He doesn't chase the game around," Weekes said. "He's very calm in the net. He'll make you make the first mistake and make the first move, typically before he will. Now we've just got to see it for the whole year now that the net is his. There's no Marc-Andre Fleury behind you. We know this guy has the pedigree."
After becoming the fourth rookie to win 15 games in a single Stanley Cup Playoff season, going 15-6-0 with a 2.08 GAA and .923 save percentage in the 2016 postseason, Murray did even better last season, going 7-3-0 with a 1.70 GAA, .937 save percentage and three shutouts in the playoffs. The 23-year-old finished fourth last season in voting for the Calder Trophy, awarded to the rookie of the year.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
I mean, there really shouldn't be a discussion about this at all. But yinzers gonna yinzer.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
Keep them both play who's playing well. Both are great goalies.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
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Trade both, bring up Emil Larmi.
That hair-cut screams - I listen to Coldplay but I also like techno and rock. He's the hybrid we've all wanted.
That hair-cut screams - I listen to Coldplay but I also like techno and rock. He's the hybrid we've all wanted.
Ugene Magic
EVIL LAUGH
Keeping both is imperative to this season. Beyond that is another story.
@Colpens: Maybe break it down to something more specific because there should be none about this season.
Beyond this season:
That front weighs on whether you want to pour top money into the position or not. Both are very good average to above average goalies. Slight nudge for Murray and experience, and a slight nudge for Jarry at being a better puck handler. There is a trust factor both ways.
At that point it becomes a tough choice. Season would still have to play out.
@Colpens: Maybe break it down to something more specific because there should be none about this season.
Beyond this season:
That front weighs on whether you want to pour top money into the position or not. Both are very good average to above average goalies. Slight nudge for Murray and experience, and a slight nudge for Jarry at being a better puck handler. There is a trust factor both ways.
At that point it becomes a tough choice. Season would still have to play out.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
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It should be a season long battle, but I just hope it's a fair one. Not a coaching staff continuing to throw lobs to a goalie to boost his morale while saying the other guy isn't good while giving him all of the tougher assignments. Even when the team lets him down and it's not his fault and then assuming the other guy is better after adjusting and fixing the issues and showing a better effort.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I'm going to be really blunt here, I don't know why people think this should be a "fair competition" between Murray and Jarry for who the starter is. Matt Murray is this team's starting goalie, that's just a fact. Jarry being great and Murray struggling for 20-25 games shouldn't put that into doubt. Jarry does not have the NHL resume where he should be viewed as an equal to Murray.
Sullivan should be playing the hot hand in the regular season, that's fine. I don't see an issue with that. But let's not kid anyone here, Murray is the starting goalie as long as he's not playing like crap. If Murray is playing well at the end of the year, he's starting in the playoffs, even if Jarry is better. Fans are so trigger happy to anoint a new starting goalie but teams just don't operate like that. It's the same way that Fleury wasn't made the starting goalie by Sullivan in the 2017 run. As soon as Murray was healthy and Fleury slipped up, Murray regained the net and never gave it up.
Sullivan should be playing the hot hand in the regular season, that's fine. I don't see an issue with that. But let's not kid anyone here, Murray is the starting goalie as long as he's not playing like crap. If Murray is playing well at the end of the year, he's starting in the playoffs, even if Jarry is better. Fans are so trigger happy to anoint a new starting goalie but teams just don't operate like that. It's the same way that Fleury wasn't made the starting goalie by Sullivan in the 2017 run. As soon as Murray was healthy and Fleury slipped up, Murray regained the net and never gave it up.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
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You act as if "struggling for 20-25" games is exclusive to this season and that's my biggest gripe with anyone that acts like this is some one off thing with Murray. At this point, that's the most consistent thing he does.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I mean he put up a .919 save% last year, so even if he has had extended stretches of struggling in past years, that didn't have a sizable impact on his results overall. Not only that, but he was also perfectly solid in the playoffs. Not incredible or anything, but he was certainly good enough for the Penguins to win if they would have been able to produce.
If Murray finishes up the year playing well, you know what you're going to get from him in the playoffs. He'll give you perfectly solid results that you can win with if you can score goals. If the Penguins lose in the playoffs, it's almost definitely going to be because they can't score because that's what happened in each playoff series they've lost since 2012.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
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I know this team will get inconsistent play, you are stuck 3yrs ago, I am not looking at what he was able to do, I look at what he is doing. Even when the team had Vokoun, the coaching staff was throwing lobs to Murray and he struggled against even those, they're doing it now and its a little f***ed up to see when Jarry hasn't been ass like Vokoun, as a matter of fact, he's out performed Murray to almost disgusting levels as a whole this season and you ride the goalie that has been consistent over a longer period of time this season than based on a bunch of shit 3yrs ago.
If Murray continues to rebound? Great, it still should be Jarry starting if he's still playing this week heading into the playoffs because he's earned that opportunity.
Earned. This year.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
eh, not really...one reason the Pens struggled to score goals the last two postseasons was the play of the opposing goalies...both Holtby and Lehner/Greiss outplayed Murray in the POs...he’s not the main reason we lost by any means but he also wasn’t making the saves to steal us games either..,his .906 save % or something for both those seasons wasn’t good enough and was no where near what he was putting up in 2016 and 2017...so if he starts the PO and isn’t outplaying the opposing goalie, Jarry should get a chance...
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Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
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I am ok with both doing well, I just want to see the one doing the best this season, get a fair shake to keep proving it.
People here are more or less acting like Fleury fan boys with Murray. It's not a matter of "Hey, we have this other kid that is actually doing insanely well, let's see how he does" instead its "Well, Murray is playing better, his team, f*** this other guy."
Shady Machine
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
You can believe this all you want. But I'm telling you how it's actually going to be. You don't like Murray or love Jarry or something, I'm just informing you of what is actually going to happen. Unless Murray ends the year playing poorly, he's starting in the playoffs because he is this team's starting goalie. This is not an "open competition" for the starting goalie, it is Murray's as long as he's not playing like crap. That's just the reality.
Your opinion of the goalies is irrelevant to how teams treat their starting goalies, just as the opinions of any fan. All we can talk about is what they're going to do, because fans don't have a say in who plays. If Murray is playing well, it's his net. For Jarry to start in the playoffs, Murray has to be bad down the stretch like Holtby was in 2018. And in 2018, Grubauer got 2 games before the Caps went back to Holtby. That's just how teams treat their starting goalies.
So it's Murray's fault that the Penguins couldn't score now? Where he has to outperform the other team's goalie to compensate for the failures of the rest of his team? Just so we're clear on that.
Apparently anyone who doesn't treat Jarry like a god is being a MAF level fanboy for Murray or something.
Don’t know where you’re getting “compensate” from...but yes, things are tight in PO games in general and yes, 99% of the time the better goalie in a series wins that series...this is not just for Murray, it’s for every goalie...PO series are usually determined by goalie play because, reality check, it’s harder to score...whoever the Pens throw out there in goal has to be better than his competition
Empoleon8771
Registered User
You are saying that the other goalie played extremely well and that caused the Penguins to be unable to score, so it's Murray's fault that he wasn't able to outplay whatever goalie he was playing against. That's pretty much directly saying that Murray has to compensate for the failures of the rest of the lineup or he's not good enough in the playoffs.
No, that’s saying Lehner was able to stifle our scorers more than Murray was able to stifle the Isles’ scorers...there’s two sides playing here...since goaltending is the prime reason teams WIN (not lose) in the POs, it’s completely fair to say Murray didn’t win them those series the way he won them series in 2016-17
