The Goalie Discussion

[HandshakeLine]

Also, board proposal? Could we change the word filter to replace Murray and Jarry with [GOALIE]? It'd be amazing to read these posts and try to figure out which goalie people are actually talking about.

 

[Bowski]

Jarry is now the #1 after the team cracking/breaking Murray tonight.
Seems the best option. Also a lot less of a cap hit, just comes down to...playoffs.

 

[Night Shift]

Jarry is now the #1 after the team cracking/breaking Murray tonight.
Seems the best option. Also a lot less of a cap hit, just comes down to...playoffs.

I like Jarry too but you can't blame Murray for Toronto.

 

[Bowski]

Love Murray, but right now this may send him back to early season questioning semi-regular play, justified or not.

Hoping he bounces back, but the team needs to play the right way:
-Sid, stop no-look passing to opposing D when the game is out of hand.
-Malkin flying around doing generally nothing with the puck. Pretty, but ultimately worthless.
-Schultz, hit the F'ing net or get lost despite our joke 3rd D line (Rik/Ruh, which one is better to replace?)
-Sully, stop juggling to make the team only worse.

Eliminate those, score maybe a goal or two, and maybe Murray can be salvaged.
But seems the real trajectory right now is set him up for failure, and cut ties when the $ is being asked for.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I didn't think Murray played great tonight, but he's put together a really good stretch of games together.

If one of these goalies has a bad stretch of games then maybe you have to revaluate how your using them, but till that happens Sully should stick with the plan and play both of them.​

 

[Bowski]

I didn't think Murray played great tonight, but he's put together a really good stretch of games together.

If one of these goalies has a bad stretch of games then maybe you have to revaluate how your using them, but till that happens Sully should stick with the plan and play both of them.​

Agreed. Continue testing the goalies, but for the love of all that is horny, no more Zuck-Sid-Hornqvist.
That is just immediate suicide for any goalie in net from a "1st" line.

 

[Will Hunting]

Easy to forgive to MM tonight. But he wasnt very good. The other players were worse tho. MM is a good goalie. Its just that Jarry is gonna be cheaper in a shortrun and I really consider Jarry being better than 90% of the goalies in the NHL. And that includes MM. Not a knock on MM. But its very hard not to go with Jarry rn and forward.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I didn't think Murray played great tonight, but he's put together a really good stretch of games together.

If one of these goalies has a bad stretch of games then maybe you have to revaluate how your using them, but till that happens Sully should stick with the plan and play both of them.​

Murray absolutely had a fine night last night, none of those goals were his fault.

That said, unless we revamp the blueline at the TDL, I'd rather see Jarry get the starts against teams where his puckhandling can help cover-up our deficiencies there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Easy to forgive to MM tonight. But he wasnt very good. The other players were worse tho. MM is a good goalie. Its just that Jarry is gonna be cheaper in a shortrun and I really consider Jarry being better than 90% of the goalies in the NHL. And that includes MM. Not a knock on MM. But its very hard not to go with Jarry rn and forward.

It's really easy to go with Murray right now too, since he's playing just as well.

 

[HandshakeLine]

f*** it, trade them both. You convinced me!

 

[ronduguayshair]

When I watch Murray I just don't have confidence in him anymore. Not compared to Jarry.

 

[vodeni]

Murray is just fine, If our defensman can pick up the puck behind the net and skate out with it or make a good first pass, Murray would be absolutely perfect and playing them equal time would be the thing....however our d-man suck, they either turn puck over, get smashed on the wall or ice the puck, in that case Jarry's puck handling is an asset that becomes so important that you have to play him, especially against the hard checking and fast teams...at least until Dumo and Marino are back

 

[Ogrezilla]

When I watch Murray I just don't have confidence in him anymore. Not compared to Jarry.

which is fine, but it is based on things from a few months ago, not recent play. Murray is doing just as well as Jarry since the new year. Maybe the puck handling gives Jarry a little bit of an edge, but certainly not some giant gap. And nobody should be lacking confidence in Murray's ability to stop a puck based on the last month and a half or so.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

which is fine, but it is based on things from a few months ago, not recent play. Murray is doing just as well as Jarry since the new year. Maybe the puck handling gives Jarry a little bit of an edge, but certainly not some giant gap. And nobody should be lacking confidence in Murray's ability to stop a puck based on the last month and a half or so.

I don't mind if people prefer Jarry to Murray. Where they lose me is when the nonsense like "we can't win with Murray in net" or "we're pissing away points starting Murray" comes in to their reasoning.

 

[cvrle1]

Murray absolutely had a fine night last night, none of those goals were his fault.

That said, unless we revamp the blueline at the TDL, I'd rather see Jarry get the starts against teams where his puckhandling can help cover-up our deficiencies there.

I will say that 2nd goal had to be stopped by MM. It was 5 on 3 and he had to bail team out like Jarry did game before. Jarry made some great saves on that 5 on 3, while MM let 2nd goal in. It was him and the shooter, with no screen, and puck went in. I dont blame him for that goal, but that is a stop that possibly makes this game a completely different one.

 

[Will Hunting]

It's really easy to go with Murray right now too, since he's playing just as well.

So you are telling me they are equally good. I am not gonna argue about that even if I could. But OK. Lets just say that they are equally good now. In such a case its definitely NOT REALLY EASY to go with MM. Because he is going to be more expensive in the crucial years of our SC window than TJ. You easily go with younger and cheaper guy if they are equally good as you claim here. Capspace is gonna be important for us, especially after that Zucker deal.

 

[Khelandros]

At 5on5 - .930 (tied for 1st with Rask)

All strengths - .918 (1st)*

*No one else in the league has a HDSV% above .900 during that time frame.

Hopefully this is a sign he's turned things around and it's not just a hot streak.

Blackwood is at .901

 

[Ogrezilla]

So you are telling me they are equally good. I am not gonna argue about that even if I could. But OK. Lets just say that they are equally good now. In such a case its definitely NOT REALLY EASY to go with MM. Because he is going to be more expensive in the crucial years of our SC window than TJ. You easily go with younger and cheaper guy if they are equally good as you claim here. Capspace is gonna be important for us, especially after that Zucker deal.

When we are talking about who plays games this year, none of that matters. Hence the right now part of my post.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I will say that 2nd goal had to be stopped by MM. It was 5 on 3 and he had to bail team out like Jarry did game before. Jarry made some great saves on that 5 on 3, while MM let 2nd goal in. It was him and the shooter, with no screen, and puck went in. I dont blame him for that goal, but that is a stop that possibly makes this game a completely different one.

It's not about being a 5 v 3 that makes it a bad goal. This was a routine save where MM didn't have the bottom of the ice sealed...we've seen this earlier in the year where pucks are going through him. Then he had another later in the game that snuck thru his 5 hole and luckily Letang bailed him out

He didn't have a chance on the other 3 goals but if we're scrutinizing his play those are 2 instances where MM had poor fundamentals

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's not about being a 5 v 3 that makes it a bad goal. This was a routine save where MM didn't have the bottom of the ice sealed...we've seen this earlier in the year where pucks are going through him. Then he had another later in the game that snuck thru his 5 hole and luckily Letang bailed him out

He didn't have a chance on the other 3 goals but if we're scrutinizing his play those are 2 instances where MM had poor fundamentals

The problem with this is we're completely discounting the shooter's ability to pick his spot when the Pens' defense gives him literally 5 seconds to walk in and take a shot. There's a reason coaches stress taking away the opposition's time and space. You give elite scorers that much time, chances are they can find an opening.

Could Murray have made a huge save there? Sure. But I think that's where this forum has been unfair to Murray a lot this season. Some folks aren't getting on him for "bad" goals, they're getting on him for good goals that would have required him making a save that's harder than your average shot in order to stop. Kind of like the Kapanen breakway. Sure, it would have been nice for him to stop that. But it's a shot that goes in 9 times out of 10.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Speaking of the goalies, I thought some of these stats were interesting:

Shots against per 60:
Murray - 28.83
Jarry - 30.79

High Danger shots against per 60:
Murray - 8.18
Jarry - 7.11

Average shot distance:
Murray - 35.48
Jarry - 38.41

At a cursory glance, while the Pens allow more shots per game in Jarry's starts, they seem to do a better job of keeping those shots from long distance and not as many in the slot/crease areas.

 

[cheesedanish87]

The problem with this is we're completely discounting the shooter's ability to pick his spot when the Pens' defense gives him literally 5 seconds to walk in and take a shot. There's a reason coaches stress taking away the opposition's time and space. You give elite scorers that much time, chances are they can find an opening.

Could Murray have made a huge save there? Sure. But I think that's where this forum has been unfair to Murray a lot this season. Some folks aren't getting on him for "bad" goals, they're getting on him for good goals that would have required him making a save that's harder than your average shot in order to stop. Kind of like the Kapanen breakway. Sure, it would have been nice for him to stop that. But it's a shot that goes in 9 times out of 10.

That's not bad defense on that play.

When your killing a long 5 on 3 its almost impossible to not give up any chances, especially to that team that has a ton of high end talent.

The defense actually did a good job of not letting any Leaf player get behind Murray when Murray came way out of his crease for an easy tap in goal into an empty net.

I'm not saying it's a bad goal for Murray to give up, but it's not bad defense when your killing a 5 on 3, the Pens PK at least gave Murray a chance to make a save.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

The problem with this is we're completely discounting the shooter's ability to pick his spot when the Pens' defense gives him literally 5 seconds to walk in and take a shot. There's a reason coaches stress taking away the opposition's time and space. You give elite scorers that much time, chances are they can find an opening.

Could Murray have made a huge save there? Sure. But I think that's where this forum has been unfair to Murray a lot this season. Some folks aren't getting on him for "bad" goals, they're getting on him for good goals that would have required him making a save that's harder than your average shot in order to stop. Kind of like the Kapanen breakway. Sure, it would have been nice for him to stop that. But it's a shot that goes in 9 times out of 10.

You're overlooking a critical piece of my retort : mm didn't seal the bottom of the ice on this play

This is a routine play and if a goalie correctly butterflies here, he's increased his save odds exponentially

When analyzing goalie play you have to take into consideration more than "did the puck go in the net?"

If mm correctly butterflies and the shot gets ripped upstairs I'm not so fussed about it. But the fact that the puck went THROUGH him on a stationary shot goes against goaltending 101

We're in a different conversation if this player is walking down main Street and has a ton of time to deke. But this was a shot that came from the top of the circle with mm having plenty of time to set up. He failed at the butterfly. Doesn't mean he's a crappy goalie. Just saying that this sequence was poorly executed

 

[Flying Dego]

I think these last few games signify the importance of depth/team defense. Doesn't matter much who's in net they will look awful.

Both goalies are good enough to win with but neither can save this team until they save themselves. Gotta get our Dman healthy and everyone back on track.

 

[cheesedanish87]

This goalie rotation doesn't seem to be working anymore, neither goalie is playing very well.

It's not just because of how the team has played in front of them, the Washington LA and Anaheim games were games when the Pens didn't give up very much.

Maybe it's time for Sully to pick one goalie and ride him, Sully seems to prefer Murray, If Murray is who Sully prefers let him play every game besides the back to back games and hope he finds a rhythm.