Player Discussion The Future of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2: Has His Recent Concussion Complicated Things More?

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

And once again, you are saying "Hey, we lost $$, lets double down on much bigger $$ because we don't thinkw e will find anybody" and screw our core more

This org sucks at bringing in players that aren’t drafted by us. It was only a few weeks ago that McLeod was being touted as RNHs replacement. I’m fine with letting him walk if we replace him with someone better and cheaper but I’m not expecting that to happen.

 

[Snipes45]

Was he lost money though? Do we make playoffs in 16-17, last year, and this year if we are finding a Nuge replacement? Heck we couldn’t even find a 3C still and those are much easier to acquire than a player like Nuge.

That is my fault.

With Nuge, I consider him debt going forward. I consider most of our forward core debt. No net positives.

Do we double down on our "BEST DEBT" to pay off and hope to balance off the rest of it when he is going into his down years? And also really provides nada anywhee?

 

[TheNumber4]

That is my fault.

With Nuge, I consider him debt going forward. I consider most of our forward core debt. No net positives.

Do we double down on our "BEST DEBT" to pay off and hope to balance off the rest of it when he is going into his down years? And also really provides nada anywhee?

Your assessment of what Nuge provides differs from me. Nada is going a bit far for a guy that can Pk, PP, play C, and wing. And for the most part consistently produce points. Despite how disappointing he has been this season, there’s still value to the team that he brings. Just need to sign him near that value and keep adding. Replacing Nuge won’t be easy for this organization.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I say let him walk, I wouldn’t match his current pay unless he’s integral to going real deep in the playoffs.

I’d rather throw the extra money at a veteran C this off season. Staal, Getz, Carter, someone like that to play with younger guys like Yamo, Holloway, maybe Benson.

 

[Little Fury]

Our forward group is so bad below the top few guys that some people actually think that a net-zero, do-nothing player is “good”. He’d be fine at $4-5m AAV as the 5th best forward on a team. His lack of game-breaking abilities and general vanilla-ness would be acceptable in that situation. But he’s a complete pretender if he thinks he should get paid #1C money to suck ass at C and play wing with generational players that make him look way better than he is..

It's always funny to see guys go off on rants like this without having the faintest idea what market value is. In today's NHL, $7M is second line numbers.

 

[Little Fury]

I say let him walk, I wouldn’t match his current pay unless he’s integral to going real deep in the playoffs.

I’d rather throw the extra money at a veteran C this off season. Staal, Getz, Carter, someone like that to play with younger guys like Yamo, Holloway, maybe Benson.

Throwing the extra money at older and inferior players doesn't seem like a great plan to me!

 

[McOilers97]

It's always funny to see guys go off on rants like this without having the faintest idea what market value is. In today's NHL, $7M is second line numbers.

There are less than 50 forwards that make $7m, and about 80 that make $6m+. Yeah, I’M the one without the faintest idea...

$7m is firmly in the middle of what first liners make. $6m is even low-end first liner money. His current rate of pay is already very flattering for him.

 

[DynamiteKid]

There are less than 50 forwards that make $7m, and about 80 that make $6m. Yeah, I’M the one without the faintest idea...

$7m is firmly in the middle of what first liners make. $6m is even low-end first liner money. His current rate of pay is already very flattering for him.

Great point. The 92nd paid forwards are making $5.3 million this year.

NHL Rankings

 

[Drivesaitl]

Josh Anderson makes less money than RNH. Let that sink in. A power forward, built with burn speed, built for playoffs, a guy that is hard edged, hammers people, hard to play against, and who has a top gear top end. Which we saw last night. That was a stud performance by Josh Anderson. By miles the best skater on the ice. In a game with a lot of talent on it, anybody watching that game would say last night Josh Anderson was the best.

When have you EVER seen RNH have that kind of impact or verve in a game?

Montreal got a game breaker for 5.5M.

Now consider that Josh Anderson is YOUNGER than RNH.

I know what kind of player I would rather have and that the NHL is selecting for.

 

[Little Fury]

There are less than 50 forwards that make $7m, and about 80 that make $6m+. Yeah, I’M the one without the faintest idea...

$7m is firmly in the middle of what first liners make. $6m is even low-end first liner money. His current rate of pay is already very flattering for him.

Low end first line is high end second line. $6-$7m is right in the range of market value for a player like that.

 

[McOilers97]

Josh Anderson makes less money than RNH. Let that sink in. A power forward, built with burn speed, built for playoffs, a guy that is hard edged, hammers people, hard to play against, and who has a top gear top end. Which we saw last night. That was a stud performance by Josh Anderson. By miles the best skater on the ice. In a game with a lot of talent on it, anybody watching that game would say last night Josh Anderson was the best.

When have you EVER seen RNH have that kind of impact or verve in a game?

Montreal got a game breaker for 5.5M.

Now consider that Josh Anderson is YOUNGER than RNH.

I know what kind of player I would rather have and that the NHL is selecting for.

They took a big risk with that contract to Anderson, but they signed a player who was at rock bottom in the season prior, with nowhere to go but up.

RNH has had a "bad" year this year relative to good production in the previous few seasons, but I'd be inclined to say that he has nowhere to go but down in the coming years. It's also kind of funny that people want to say that this year is an anomaly for RNH, when his 0.67 points per game is on par with his 0.67-0.70 career average prior to the last few seasons with McDavid and Draisaitl. And those prior seasons with with worse linemates in a lower scoring NHL. And those are just the numbers, never mind what the eye-test is telling me when I watch him play. This reeks of the beginning of a downward trend to me.

 

[McOilers97]

Low end first line is high end second line. $6-$7m is right in the range of market value for a player like that.

$6m, maybe. $7m...no. Someone may give him $7m out of desperation, but that doesn't mean it's money well spent. A $7m x 6-7 contract for this player is going to be very ugly, very quickly. Just because someone else will pay him that doesn't mean that the Oilers should.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Josh Anderson makes less money than RNH. Let that sink in. A power forward, built with burn speed, built for playoffs, a guy that is hard edged, hammers people, hard to play against, and who has a top gear top end. Which we saw last night. That was a stud performance by Josh Anderson. By miles the best skater on the ice. In a game with a lot of talent on it, anybody watching that game would say last night Josh Anderson was the best.

When have you EVER seen RNH have that kind of impact or verve in a game?

Montreal got a game breaker for 5.5M.

Now consider that Josh Anderson is YOUNGER than RNH.

I know what kind of player I would rather have and that the NHL is selecting for.

Keep in mind of course that he's still signed for the next... 7 years?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Keep in mind of course that he's still signed for the next... 7 years?

Keep in mind that the term Nuge has been asking for is at least 5yrs, meaning the end age of the contracts is almost the same.

Do people not realize the importance of stud power forwards in a lineup. One type of player commands the ice, is felt all the time, and makes opponents a bit nervous and on guard. A player like Josh Anderson can lay claim to the ice. Tends to deter opponents. Not only did he score a goal, have several scoring chances, he laid several leafs out with thunderous checks, and made multiple excellent back checking plays breaking up one possible goal.

For money, I want players to have an impact on a game, and have a toolset that is likely to have impact when it matters, the playoffs.

This is the same Josh Anderson that was a good part of the Jackets dismantling of Tampa. No easy task. Love this player.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Keep in mind that the term Nuge has been asking for is at least 5yrs, meaning the end age of the contracts is almost the same.

Do people not realize the importance of stud power forwards in a lineup. One type of player commands the ice, is felt all the time, and makes opponents a bit nervous and on guard. A player like Josh Anderson can lay claim to the ice. Tends to deter opponents. Not only did he score a goal, have several scoring chances, he laid several leafs out with thunderous checks, and made multiple excellent back checking plays breaking up one possible goal.

For money, I want players to have an impact on a game, and have a toolset that is likely to have impact when it matters, the playoffs.

This is the same Josh Anderson that was a good part of the Jackets dismantling of Tampa. No easy task. Love this player.

Anderson was a massive risk that people ridiculed Montreal's GM for. There was certainly a chance of this backfiring as he was coming off injury issues.

Power forwards are important. Don't we have one in #29?

My fear is that we let RNH walk (for nothing, mind you), and replace him with some other bloated contract. To be frank I don't trust the pro scouts that brought us most of this year's dead weight, Kassian's extension, et al to bring in a player that properly replaces him. Bird in the hand. Don't bend over backwards for him, but at the same time, this org has a frightfully bad track record in acquiring useful players.

 

[LTIR]

Josh Anderson makes less money than RNH. Let that sink in. A power forward, built with burn speed, built for playoffs, a guy that is hard edged, hammers people, hard to play against, and who has a top gear top end. Which we saw last night. That was a stud performance by Josh Anderson. By miles the best skater on the ice. In a game with a lot of talent on it, anybody watching that game would say last night Josh Anderson was the best.

When have you EVER seen RNH have that kind of impact or verve in a game?

Montreal got a game breaker for 5.5M.

Now consider that Josh Anderson is YOUNGER than RNH.

I know what kind of player I would rather have and that the NHL is selecting for.

Our 8.5M guy could learn a thing or 10 from Josh Andersson as well.

 

[Roof Daddy]

I’d be OK re-signing Nuge if it was a 1 year deal in the 5-6 mil range, but that’s it. Don’t want to give him term. One more crack at a “show me” deal, as a bird in the hand is worth 2 on July 1st, but I’d still be looking at similar options July 1st (players looking for 1 year deals to get the McDavid bump).

I’d look at Schwartz/Hall/Granlund and try to land the best bargain. If you land 2, perfect, drop Nuge down to 3C/LW to play with Holloway.

 

[CupofOil]

Our 8.5M guy could learn a thing or 10 from Josh Andersson as well.

It's so odd that there are Oiler fans who hate a guy that won a Hart last year and has been a consistent 50 goal, 100 point guy. Yeah you heard that right, a "consistent" 50 goal, 100 point player. How many players in the entire history of the NHL can claim that? You constantly defend a second rate player like Nuge then find ways to take digs at arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the entire NHL. Mind boggling to say the least.

In any event, $7M is not 2nd liner market value in a flat cap NHL @Little Fury
$7M would be too much for Nuge even in a rising cap NHL. I'm fine with them keeping him but it has to be at a reasonable cost and if he no shows in this round and they lose to the Jets, I'm leaning towards letting him walk. They need more players who "get in the fight" and elevate their game in the tight checking games, players that move the needle in a meaningful way. I don't see him doing that although he was better towards the end of the season.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It's so odd that there are Oiler fans who hate a guy that won a Hart last year and has been a consistent 50 goal, 100 point guy. Yeah you heard that right, a "consistent" 50 goal, 100 point player. How many players in the entire history of the NHL can claim that?

In any event, $7M is not 2nd liner market value in a flat cap NHL @Little Fury
$7M would be too much for Nuge even in a rising cap NHL. I'm fine with them keeping him but it has to be at a reasonable cost and if he no shows in this round and they lose to the Jets, I'm leaning towards letting him walk. They need more players who "get in the fight" and elevate their game in the tight checking games, players that move the needle in a meaningful way. I don't see him doing that although he was better towards the end of the season.

I agree, shame we suck ass at finding said players.

 

[Little Fury]

$6m, maybe. $7m...no. Someone may give him $7m out of desperation, but that doesn't mean it's money well spent. A $7m x 6-7 contract for this player is going to be very ugly, very quickly. Just because someone else will pay him that doesn't mean that the Oilers should.

The difference between a ok $6M contract and a terrible horrible $7M contract is the cost of a replacement level fourth line player, how is that the end of the world?

 

[Little Fury]

In any event, $7M is not 2nd liner market value in a flat cap NHL @Little Fury
$7M would be too much for Nuge even in a rising cap NHL. I'm fine with them keeping him but it has to be at a reasonable cost and if he no shows in this round and they lose to the Jets, I'm leaning towards letting him walk. They need more players who "get in the fight" and elevate their game in the tight checking games, players that move the needle in a meaningful way. I don't see him doing that although he was better towards the end of the season.

Cap won't be flat for long.

It's one thing to say "we need players like X" and quite another to actually procure them. Letting RNH walk over a million bucks and then failing to replace him with the player you're after would set this team back considerably.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Our 8.5M guy could learn a thing or 10 from Josh Andersson as well.

Any of our players could based on that one game. The key is Anderson was taking it to the house, and his intent on every rush was to challenge with speed and get in on net. Something both McD and Drai need to accomplish more. Drai takes himself out of the rushes with buttonhooks. I mean do that some of the time, not 80% of the time. In Drais defense though he did challenge the Jets D multiple times, and that had spin backhand shot was extraordinary. I mean if that goes in its a goal of the year candidate.

But yeah, I want power forwards to be power forwards. Jets D can't contain McD or Drai. Use that.

 

[LTIR]

It's so odd that there are Oiler fans who hate a guy that won a Hart last year and has been a consistent 50 goal, 100 point guy. Yeah you heard that right, a "consistent" 50 goal, 100 point player. How many players in the entire history of the NHL can claim that? You constantly defend a second rate player like Nuge then find ways to take digs at arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the entire NHL. Mind boggling to say the least.

In any event, $7M is not 2nd liner market value in a flat cap NHL @Little Fury
$7M would be too much for Nuge even in a rising cap NHL. I'm fine with them keeping him but it has to be at a reasonable cost and if he no shows in this round and they lose to the Jets, I'm leaning towards letting him walk. They need more players who "get in the fight" and elevate their game in the tight checking games, players that move the needle in a meaningful way. I don't see him doing that although he was better towards the end of the season.

Not defending Nuge and not hating Drai as a player but just pointing out that he also lacks most of the qualities described for Andersson.

I dont want Nuge back for over 5M per if there are better looking options available.

 

[CupofOil]

Cap won't be flat for long.

It's one thing to say "we need players like X" and quite another to actually procure them. Letting RNH walk over a million bucks and then failing to replace him with the player you're after would set this team back considerably.

A million per year is significant when you're talking over a 4-5+ year period. It also sets a precedent for future negotiations when you overpay 2nd tier players.

I would have to think that Holland has a concrete plan in place just in case Nuge walks. Say what you want about Holland and he has his flaws but he's very thorough with his approach so I doubt he'd be caught with his pants down if Nuge walked.

With that said, my preference would be to sign him to a reasonable contract and add to the forward, not replace. I do wonder if he's the right fit as the top complimentary player though for the duration of McDrai's prime, a soft skilled guy.

 

[LTIR]

Any of our players could based on that one game. The key is Anderson was taking it to the house, and his intent on every rush was to challenge with speed and get in on net. Something both McD and Drai need to accomplish more. Drai takes himself out of the rushes with buttonhooks. I mean do that some of the time, not 80% of the time. In Drais defense though he did challenge the Jets D multiple times, and that had spin backhand shot was extraordinary. I mean if that goes in its a goal of the year candidate.

But yeah, I want power forwards to be power forwards. Jets D can't contain McD or Drai. Use that.

Yeh, Archibald seems to be the only guy who brought it in game 1. Kassian and Neal are getting paid good money to bring this element but just dont have it anymore. Khaira has failed at this as well.

I dont think we can knock Nuge because of a powerforward like Andersson.. Plenty of other valid reasons to prove that he just isnt a driver in this league.